F1 car Crash at Duxford

[steve nielsen]

The president of the Spanish motorsport federation has said she had surgery for a basilar skull fracture.

[Flavio Galtieri]

I might be wrong, as you all know I often am, but I'm pretty sure teams would straight line test regardless of the circuit testing ban being lifted.

To verify windtunnel data I think you would prefer two runs in opposite directions, to take tail/headwind components out of the equation. Just like a land speed record attempt. You can't achieve that on a circuit especially if other cars are running, causing 'dirty air" and so on let alone turn around and go in the opposite direction, even on the Mistral straight.

Duxford has a mile long, very smooth and very wide runway with absolutely no obstacles that is aligned 060 and 240 degrees, in other words the most common prevailing winds in this part of the country and I can't imagine anywhere safer to run a novice driver.

It was just a freak accident I'm sure. No need for overreaction imho. Let's hope Maria recovers swiftly.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

The president of the Spanish motorsport federation has said she had surgery for a basilar skull fracture.

A basilar skull fracture (or basal skull fracture) is a fracture of the base of the skull, typically involving the temporal bone, occipital bone, sphenoid bone, and/or ethmoid bone.

This type of fracture is rare, occurring as the only fracture in just 4% of severe head injury patients.

Basilar skull fracture is a common cause of death in motor racing accidents. Drivers who died as a result of basilar skull fracture include Formula One drivers Roland Ratzenberger and Ayrton Senna, Indianapolis 500 drivers Scott Brayton, NASCAR drivers Dale Earnhardt Sr., Adam Petty, Tony Roper, Kenny Irwin, Jr., Neil Bonnett, and CART drivers Jovy Marcelo, Greg Moore and Gonzalo Rodriguez.

[amidst tundra]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Lots of people assuming that this is a less safe environment that a race track. I disagree. Straight line testing should be done in a straight line. Airfield have a straight line with nothing to hit to some distance either side or end of it. Perfect for straight line testing. Safer than doing it on a circuit where you first need to drive round a circuit to get to the straight, and the straights generally have nasty corners at the end of them to hit if you have a failure.

I said this yesterday, some seem to think circuits and only circuits are the zenith of motorsport and as such having F1 cars, the very pinnacle of motorsport, anywhere but the best is unseemly I guess. The only difference is that a track will have a care centre as far as I can see, and then how manned that is compared to the health providers at Duxford on a test day is negligible.

[amidst tundra]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

A basilar skull fracture (or basal skull fracture) is a fracture of the base of the skull, typically involving the temporal bone, occipital bone, sphenoid bone, and/or ethmoid bone.

This type of fracture is rare, occurring as the only fracture in just 4% of severe head injury patients.

Basilar skull fracture is a common cause of death in motor racing accidents. Drivers who died as a result of basilar skull fracture include Formula One drivers Roland Ratzenberger and Ayrton Senna, Indianapolis 500 drivers Scott Brayton, NASCAR drivers Dale Earnhardt Sr., Adam Petty, Tony Roper, Kenny Irwin, Jr., Neil Bonnett, and CART drivers Jovy Marcelo, Greg Moore and Gonzalo Rodriguez.

Basically what initiated the HANS response, however the HANS device isn't really expected to prevent a Basial Skull Fracture upon contact with a solid object as opposed to the transmitted force of a crash impact upon the neck.

[Bononi]

I'm sorry but situation is still critical :

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100907

[Born Racer]

The thread has been re-opened, but please do NOT discuss Maria's credibility as a driver here. This is not the place for that. At the moment, there is a lot of conjecture about the accident as is inevitable. We know very little. There is not a lot we can do other than wish Maria well at this stage.

Joe Saward expresses that quite well here: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/...great-sadness/

Please bear that in mind when posting in this thread.

[luke g28]

My thoughts go out to her and her family, so cruel that she has probably lost her chance at F1 already

[GORDON STREETER]

A tail lift left down by a "professional" F1 team ! someone will be for the high jump.
I have seen this loads of times in the paddocks over the years with damage to cars and people knocked off push and motorised bikes and people walking in to them. OK people should be more vigilant wandering around the paddocks but there is always something to attract your attention elsewhere.
A terrible tragedy regardless of what or how it happened .

[Peat]

It's well documented that the truck belongs to a third party contractor (Circuit 2 Circuit) and i expect they supply thier own driver's. Question is, who is responsible for the operation of the tail-lift?

Personally, i'd put it down to an accident. I mean, what are the chances??

[brownslane]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

A tail lift left down by a "professional" F1 team ! someone will be for the high jump.
I have seen this loads of times in the paddocks over the years with damage to cars and people knocked off push and motorised bikes and people walking in to them. OK people should be more vigilant wandering around the paddocks but there is always something to attract your attention elsewhere.
A terrible tragedy regardless of what or how it happened .

Gordon, you are spot on! Sometimes, as hard as we all attempt to minimize risk, bad things happen. Sounds like the anti-stall kicked in as she released the clutch...the audio file I heard made it sound like the impact was less than three seconds from the "launch". That sort of error (releasing the clutch) coupled with the "automated" anti-stall, would explain the launch of the car...but the tailgate is simply poor management within the team.....and not the way a professional team should do the job....

Regardless of the cause (which we will discover in time), the fact remains is that a wonderful, vibrant soul has been terribly injured and her life has been altered completely. Prayers for Maria!

Best, Tom Owen

[GORDON STREETER]

Welcome to the forum Tom

[Icarus_nz]

Thus far in this thread the only sentiment I can agree with is that it is a tragedy that a sportsperson has been injured in an unusual accident.

What I find strange is the carping about the tail-lift.
Uninterneded contact was made with an object and injury occured. The nature of the object is irrelevant.

The suitibility of the driver is irrelevant. Those with a big enough wallet can go out and buy any number of toys whether or not they have ability (NOTE: - Generalising now. Not intended as any sort of judgement of this driver)
Is the fuss because this is a current F1 car?
To the best of my knowledge there is no regulation to run a fan poll before putting a driver in a car.
A modern F1 car is a complex piece of equipment with a range of different systems. They aren't a shopping trolly. It isn't unusual for a driver to be 'bitten' by the systems built into the machine - if in fact that's what happened. - refer to my opening sentence before you hit reply.

Motorsport is dangerous. Read the back of every ticket you've ever bought. The managed risk is the appeal. The attitude of OK to shunt but not OK to die is bizzare. The level of safety in the modern age is truely incredible but as long as wetware controls the hardware there is risk to the very fragile control mechanism.
For sure , if there are lessons to be learned to minimise/manage the risk in future learn from them but realise that it is impossible to eliminate every accident

For those with opinions about airfields and straighline testing. Please take the time to do some research what teams are trying to achieve from this testing. You may even learn something.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

A tail lift left down by a "professional" F1 team ! someone will be for the high jump.
I have seen this loads of times in the paddocks over the years with damage to cars and people knocked off push and motorised bikes and people walking in to them. OK people should be more vigilant wandering around the paddocks but there is always something to attract your attention elsewhere.
A terrible tragedy regardless of what or how it happened .

Pretty much the most sensible post said on this thread todate !

Well said and I wish her a speedy recovery.



Have we any further updates on her wellbeing?

[TWRv12]

"When an accident happens, it means that something didn't work properly. We need to make sure between the FIA, the teams and the GPDA that we make changes for the future becaue it's not good enough." GPDA chairman Pedro de la Rosa

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100922

[amidst tundra]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

What I find strange is the carping about the tail-lift.
Uninterneded contact was made with an object and injury occured. The nature of the object is irrelevant.

I said this before, but for one reason or another the post got removed. I used to work as a warehouse supervisor in a soft furnishings company, if I let a truck driver keep his tail-lift down in the yard when it was out of use I'd get a rollicking, so why should it be different in a far more dangerous environment? I've seen forkies swing around the side of a truck straight into them and I've personally walked face first into one while looking at a manifest (I was expecting nice thin air as I rounded the truck). It's simply poor and lazy practice to have it down while it wasn't in use.

Of course, Maria's injuries and recovery are the most important thing, but she would not have lost her eye if the tail-lift had been up, she may have endured other injuries, but it's frustrating to think her life has been altered by poor practice or laziness. I am not a H&S obsessed person, but I've tried to make sure when I've done stupid things the only person I'll injure is myself.

[JeremySmith]

I think your post may have got removed in the "clean up" process to this thread..

If so, sorry about that, and welcome to our friendly forum..

Please read this and have fun posting...

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82104

[fredd1]

Originally Posted by amidst tundra

I said this before, but for one reason or another the post got removed. I used to work as a warehouse supervisor in a soft furnishings company, if I let a truck driver keep his tail-lift down in the yard when it was out of use I'd get a rollicking, so why should it be different in a far more dangerous environment? I've seen forkies swing around the side of a truck straight into them and I've personally walked face first into one while looking at a manifest (I was expecting nice thin air as I rounded the truck). It's simply poor and lazy practice to have it down while it wasn't in use.

Of course, Maria's injuries and recovery are the most important thing, but she would not have lost her eye if the tail-lift had been up, she may have endured other injuries, but it's frustrating to think her life has been altered by poor practice or laziness. I am not a H&S obsessed person, but I've tried to make sure when I've done stupid things the only person I'll injure is myself.

It would be an absolute no brainer to suppose that a team member had used the lift to raise themselves to access the truck, for whatever perfectly plausible reason, and be in there going about their business when the accident occurred?

Just wouldn't be done. Or would it?

A common sight, every day, everywhere. Truck driver on deliveries does just that to access back of his vehicle to ready next item, stow equipment, whatever.

Very sad that this happened but elevated lift is not sinister or slack.

[mountainstar]

Just a sad deal all around for this to have happened and I hope she recovers and rehabilitates well with no further major issues beyond what she has already been through.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by amidst tundra

I've seen forkies swing around the side of a truck straight into them and I've personally walked face first into one while looking at a manifest (I was expecting nice thin air as I rounded the truck).

I still call irrelevant. Where is the personal responsibility in what you've just said? Duty of care is one thing but taking responsibility for ones actions is the best safety device there is.

Originally Posted by amidst tundra

Of course, Maria's injuries and recovery are the most important thing, but she would not have lost her eye if the tail-lift had been up, she may have endured other injuries, but it's frustrating to think her life has been altered by poor practice or laziness. I am not a H&S obsessed person, but I've tried to make sure when I've done stupid things the only person I'll injure is myself.

I agree with you here

[Mike Bell]

One observation with all the discussion on tail lifts. It looks to me from pictures as if the truck has barn doors so would not have a typical Motorsport full height drop-down rear hoist. More like a 'tuck under' type from the pics, which usually have a crash bumper across when folded. Even when in this state it would be an inappropriate height for an F1 car.

My thoughts are with Maria and her family at this time.

[Paceracing]

The tail lift is normally used in the paddock as a step to gain access to back of the truck. Whilst it could be argued that the tail should not have been in the position it was, the simple truth is that the truck most definitely was in the wrong place. If it had been 3 feet furthe back maybe she would have driven directly in to truck!

The other point to make is that it can't possibly be anti stall as the cause as that would have disengaged drive.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Paceracing

The tail lift is normally used in the paddock as a step to gain access to back of the truck. Whilst it could be argued that the tail should not have been in the position it was, the simple truth is that the truck most definitely was in the wrong place. If it had been 3 feet furthe back maybe she would have driven directly in to truck!

The other point to make is that it can't possibly be anti stall as the cause as that would have disengaged drive.

Or the car was in the 'wrong place'? Or perhaps someone was using the tail lift at the time to get something needed for the car?

Think I'll wait for the report.

[rich07]

I feel really sad for her that she's lost an eye

At least she is still alive though.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Paceracing

The other point to make is that it can't possibly be anti stall as the cause as that would have disengaged drive.

Unless she hadn't engaged neutral, or neutral failed to engage properly, in which case it's very possible anti stall would kick in, that's what it's for. We shall see when Murussia are able to release the details.