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Old 13 May 2013, 18:31 (Ref:3246868)   #326
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Old 13 May 2013, 18:35 (Ref:3246870)   #327
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Originally Posted by TheMightyM View Post
Pirelli has already brought back boring processional racing, it’s just that their take involves a procession to the pits to constantly change tires.
Exactly !
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Old 13 May 2013, 18:59 (Ref:3246878)   #328
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On another day, you would all be complaining that you were seeing too much 'finger pointing' and why can't anyone do something about Red Bull winning everything in sight. Oh wait...you have complained about that. But even Pirelli's best efforts to stop the dominance of one team have not really been able to do that until now.

Short of banning Adrian Newey from F1, I have no idea what other solutions could be as effective as doing something to the car that limits everything i.e. tyres.

DRS and KERS are also of not much use if Vettel is already 4 or 5 seconds down the road at the beginning of lap three.

Be careful what you wish for.
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Old 13 May 2013, 19:06 (Ref:3246890)   #329
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Gawd marbot, I think you might be right


...or totally wrong !


But I guess you can't live with that.
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Old 13 May 2013, 19:14 (Ref:3246895)   #330
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On another day, you would all be complaining that you were seeing too much 'finger pointing' and why can't anyone do something about Red Bull winning everything in sight. Oh wait...you have complained about that. But even Pirelli's best efforts to stop the dominance of one team have not really been able to do that until now.

Short of banning Adrian Newey from F1, I have no idea what other solutions could be as effective as doing something to the car that limits everything i.e. tyres.

DRS and KERS are also of not much use if Vettel is already 4 or 5 seconds down the road at the beginning of lap three.

Be careful what you wish for.

Listen mate ! It's not Paul Hembery's job to stop Sebastian Vettel
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Old 13 May 2013, 21:15 (Ref:3246948)   #331
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Listen mate ! It's not Paul Hembery's job to stop Sebastian Vettel
You're absolutely right...that job belongs to the FIA guys who do the front wing flexing test's.
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Old 13 May 2013, 21:37 (Ref:3246955)   #332
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Listen mate ! It's not Paul Hembery's job to stop Sebastian Vettel
I totally agree. But it's not me who complains when he doesn't. I hope that Red Bull 'absolutely' get what they want - tyres that favour a zillion hours of wind tunnel and simulator testing.
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Old 13 May 2013, 21:42 (Ref:3246959)   #333
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Why do Pirelli think that if they stop making the tyres out of cheese it will bring back processional racing ? Ok Seb may be out front but who is to say the Merc's with a decent set of boots on wont be with him , they have the one lap pace that has been proven , may be the race pace will improve . If the drivers can properly push and race hard we will see battles through the field. Remember this quote from Lewis " I can't drive any slower" .
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Old 13 May 2013, 22:09 (Ref:3246968)   #334
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Why do Pirelli think that if they stop making the tyres out of cheese it will bring back processional racing ?
Because of the previous history of it doing so. Why do you think F1 cars have things like KERS and DRS in the first place? Well, probably because the same people who are complaining about the tyres now, complained about the lack of overtaking before KERS and DRS came along and then complained some more that the racing had become boring again when used in conjunction with Pirelli's not so 'cheesy' tyre choices for the end of last season.


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Ok Seb may be out front........
And who would argue that he wouldn't deserve to win 4 WDCs on the trot despite Pirelli's best attempts to nobble his car for the past three years?
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Old 13 May 2013, 23:40 (Ref:3247002)   #335
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Jenson Button on current state of F1 'It is a right mess ..... people think there's lot's of overtaking so it's great isn't it ? ......we are doing laps 3 seconds slower than a GP2 car did in qualifying and only 6 seconds faster than a GP3 car did in the race. Ther's something very wrong. This is the pinacle of motorsport ............it's so complicated. It's very confusing. I let a car past ..... I don't want to damage my tyres ....... hoping the other guy will damage his'.

Just about sums it up, F1 is a mess at the moment, and its the clowns with in the FIA that need their heads bashed together. These people like Todt and co are past it, need some people who know what they are doing. F1 is no longer a sport its more liek a travelling circus and the drivers are like clowns entertainign the crowd!

If Senna was around he would have been very vocal, I think drivers need to speak up and really go for the kill!
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Old 14 May 2013, 01:04 (Ref:3247038)   #336
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to the first, yes. If I set up my car to have high loading on the tyres and one fails it can be my fault and not the fault of the supplier.

it is racing, first person to cover prescribed distance wins = race in my book

pinnacle of motorsport? well they spend the most money if that means anything

Kimi tried pretty hard and only stopped 3 times.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22403794

read the last 6 or seven paragraphs of the above, does it sound familiar?
Ok, so RBR, Mercedes and other struggling teams, should forget about their '14 challenger, and turn all their efforts and waste resources to redesign an already evoluted '13 car that is at the end of the road and was made to run with more durable tyres, because FIA and Pirelli have decided to introduce a game changer in the last year of a set of regulations.
Sounds fair to me.

I understand why some people are defending the current situation, but for me it's not right. And the way Hembery is acting like a Prima Donna and using the media to sell his anti-RBR propaganda in an attempt to divert fans attention from the real problem (which is the tyres) only makes it worse. I have no respect for him.
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Old 14 May 2013, 03:08 (Ref:3247074)   #337
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It is not fair to change tire compounds well into the season because some teams are complaining. Lotus has designed a car that is easy on tires. Isn't that what winning teams are supposed to do? They provide their driver's with the best equipment they can to win races. Why don't RBR or Merc design a better car? Late last season the racing got very boring with tires lasting quite a while compared to earlier in the season.
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Old 14 May 2013, 09:16 (Ref:3247201)   #338
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we are doing laps 3 seconds slower than a GP2 car
The GP2 racing is much more exciting than the F1 'racing' too..
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Old 14 May 2013, 10:05 (Ref:3247216)   #339
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Everyone is moaning that the tyres are artificial and produce this strange racing, but they are not different ot anything else in F1. The whole of F1 is artificial, that's why the cars have dramatically fewer aerodynamic devices compared to a few years back; so if the tyres need to be the best we can produce right now, to acheive the fastest laps possible, why not the cars?

But then the cars would become very reliant on downforce again and the awful "racing" of the 2000's would return. Ideally F1 would get rid of aero devices all together, create cars more like the 50's. I know this has all been said before, but I really think it's the only thing that would make us happy. Give the cars some decent tyres so they are still fairly quick in the corners, massive engines with slightly too much power so they are tricky to drive, and let the teams fight it out over drag reduction, power and chassis developments.

As for the racing this year, no it isn't the fastest racing out there and it isn't about pushing as hard as you can every single lap. But the teams have the same tyres and the same conditions, so it is still about which car/driver combination can finish the race in the shortest time. Sport is sometimes a tactical thing, which isn't always bad.
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Old 14 May 2013, 10:12 (Ref:3247219)   #340
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Hembrey's response on autosport today is pathetic tbh. A director should not be entering in tit for tat tosh like this.

Anyway, i don't blame Pirelli entirely for the farcical state of F1 at the moment. They have fufilled thier brief essentially.

The people to blame are FOCA and TOWG (if that still exists). The minute they started letting the 'fans' tell them what they wanted it's been downhill. F1 had built itself into the pinnacle without fan input beforehand. The result is a 'spectacle' that lacks any integrity and resembles Mario Kart more than it does top level sport.

Catalunya was just like a slap in the face. An insult to anyone who likes motor-racing.
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Old 14 May 2013, 11:06 (Ref:3247238)   #341
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Even Williams Engineers are bored with F1...

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Old 14 May 2013, 12:52 (Ref:3247270)   #342
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Even Williams Engineers are bored with F1...

Good one.
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Old 14 May 2013, 12:55 (Ref:3247272)   #343
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What I think F1 could do with is a high mechanical grip tyre that lasts for 20 laps or so, but doesn't produce a ton of marbles. While they are at it, increase the rear slip angle of the rear tyres, so that getting sideways doesn't always mean that you lose time and have to get out of the gas. It would be nice if some low-ish speed rear wheel drifts were possible.
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Old 14 May 2013, 12:57 (Ref:3247275)   #344
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Different tyres for Canada.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107421
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Old 14 May 2013, 13:09 (Ref:3247280)   #345
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I totally agree. But it's not me who complains when he doesn't. I hope that Red Bull 'absolutely' get what they want - tyres that favour a zillion hours of wind tunnel and simulator testing.
The idea that manipulating the standardized tyres are the true solution for the lack of close racing, overtaking and excitement tells a lot about the state of Formula 1, I think. It proves that the decision makers are actually unable to address the issues the sport is facing. The same thing counts for the drag reduction system.
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Old 14 May 2013, 13:24 (Ref:3247285)   #346
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Different tyres for each race until the end of season, you bet.
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Old 14 May 2013, 13:29 (Ref:3247286)   #347
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The idea that manipulating the standardized tyres are the true solution for the lack of close racing, overtaking and excitement tells a lot about the state of Formula 1, I think. It proves that the decision makers are actually unable to address the issues the sport is facing. The same thing counts for the drag reduction system.
Agree 100% you have hit the nail on the head..
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Old 14 May 2013, 15:40 (Ref:3247327)   #348
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The good news for some is they can blame Michael Schumacher for all of this!

If it wasn't for him winning 5 on the trot we wouldn't have the precedence for hastily conceived rules revisions to throw a spanner in the works of a championship run. Remember one lap qualifying, restructured points and no tyre changes? It was sort of like the Treaty of Versailles! None of that worked to stop Schumi and neither did the Treaty of Versailles. It eventually worked itself out by others stepping up.

This Pirelli rubbish is the new Treaty of Versailles. It won't work on Seb and shouldn't have been implemented for that reason even IF that is not the advertised reason. But in the process it has provided plenty to winge about. It is rubbish racing presently, (as long as there is plenty of debris about to cause delamination ). For heavens sake Lewis is SLOWING down, and Ferrari is winning but a change will only favor RBR?

Lotus is afraid of a challenge IMHO so doesn't want any change although who is to say they won't benefit and do one stoppers. If you ask me, (and no one did) a change can only improve things and I LIKE the part about Ferrari winning!!

Just remember, "the fans asked for it!"
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Old 14 May 2013, 17:16 (Ref:3247353)   #349
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Now that the decision is made, Hembery has finally backtracked with all these accusations to Red Bull Racing we've been reading lately : source
Better later than never...

Quote:
Hembery made it clear that Pirelli's changes were not the result of lobbying from Red Bull, after its owner Dietrich Mateschitz this week hit out at F1 by saying it had "nothing to do with racing anymore."
"People will say it is pressure from Red Bull, but there has not been excessive pressure from them," said Hembery.
"In fairness to Christian Horner [team principal], a lot more has been said in the media this week than what they have told me."
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Old 14 May 2013, 17:24 (Ref:3247357)   #350
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The idea that manipulating the standardized tyres are the true solution for the lack of close racing, overtaking and excitement tells a lot about the state of Formula 1, I think. It proves that the decision makers are actually unable to address the issues the sport is facing. The same thing counts for the drag reduction system.
What is 'not' manipulating the standardized tyres? What would you do to alleviate the problem?

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Agree 100% you have hit the nail on the head..
I agree. What's the solution?

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For heavens sake Lewis is SLOWING down, and Ferrari is winning but a change will only favor RBR?
Ferrari and Lotus have cars that are light on their tyres. They have figured out how to use the tyres Pirelli have given them. Currently, they are the right cars for these tyres.

Red Bull have also figured out how to use the tyres, but would go much faster if the tyres were much harder. They are punishing the tyres too much because they have too much downforce.

Mercedes are punishing the tyres because they haven't solved the problem that's been the bugbear of their car since 2010. Good in qualifying, crap in the race. Mercedes is the new Toyota.
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