Vipers - Why were they penalized in SCCA GT

[ViperACR]

The new Viper car which is now in SCCA GT racing series won there first race on October of 2003 but they immediately had a weight penalty imposed as many were complaining. Why the penalty if they have not won since and why cant they be allowed to race in ALMS.

[Fogelhund]

1. Scca Speed World Challenge. This is the way the series operates, through equalization weight penalties, and limitations on the engine. There are few cars in the series that don't have some penalties.

2. ALMS/ACO - The Viper is not legal in the ALMS, because nobody has chosen to have it homologated for racing yet. As it stands, the largest legal engine under GT or GTS rules in the ACO is 8.0l, so the Viper would need to have a reduction in engine size.

[JAG]

If the Viper was homologated, the engine can be reduced in size. No need to build more road cars with a 8l engine.

The Viper would not be competitive unless someone like ORECA got involved.

[ViperACR]

The Viper is competitive right now in the speed world challege series. It won its forst race against the factory cars. so then a weight penalty was added to it. Chrysler is in the process now of getting the cars approved for ALMS for nest year. They would do very well as the cars come from the factory.

[RM40]

You're thinking of the Competition Coupe, which races in Speed GT. That is not even a road-legal car, as it doesn't have VIN/serial number (don't remember which), and is a purpose built race car. But they could homologate the SRT-10, if they wanted to.

[Fogelhund]

Chrysler getting ready for ALMS next year? Based on news, it certainly doesn't seem likely. Where did you come up with this rumour?

So whats the point with the SWC GT?

[JAG]

Chrysler would need 100 road cars to get the Competition Coupe homoplogated in GT, which is the class it would most likely compete in.

[ViperACR]

Read the Car & Driver article from last month and you will see where I get my sources from. It is being negotiated right now. Chrysler wants to get these cars into the ALMS, but they are right now in the SCCA Speed Worls Challenge series against factory cars. They won the first race they entered. Their are 8 Vipers in this series right now and competing well with weight penalties so please stop the ****.

[Fogelhund]

Umm, what **** are you referring to? We all know that the Viper competes in the SC WCGT. I'm just not sure what point you are trying to make, if any. The car has weight penalties from stock. So what, so do most of the other cars on the grid, or tires equalization, power restrictions, modification limits... that's what the series is all about.

Regarding the ALMS...

This is the Car & Driver article.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

If you read the article carefully, you will see that in fact they are negotiating with GrandAM, not ALMS.

There were no entries bearing the Competition Coupe logo at that race (Daytona 24) because it's barred from racing in two of the three premier professional road-racing series—Grand American, which hosts the Daytona race, and American Le Mans. Both of these series have numerous racing classes that ideally each contain cars that are about equally fast. According to the officials we talked to, the Viper Competition Coupe is presently too fast for the slowest classes and not quite quick enough for the fastest. Dodge says it's willing to modify the car and is currently negotiating with those series' sanctioning bodies to determine exactly what changes need to be made.

Of course, in referencing the classes, they are talking about Grand Am SGS and GT. The Viper Coupe most certainly is not faster then a ACO GT car, so whom they are discussing, and negotiating with is quite clear. (Grand Am). There is no reference that they plan on racing the car "next year", in the article either.

As is, there is no real need for negotiating with the ACO/ALMS about this car, there are ZERO road legal versions, which has it fall well short of requirements. Now, if they were talking about the regular Viper, and modifying that for ACO, then they may have a point, but they are not.

I do hope that a Coupe version of the road Viper is built, so that they have the ground work to build a ACO legal Viper, for GTS , but that doesn't seem likely for a few years.

[73_Gstock]

It did win last year, but not in its first race. There were 5 or 6 at Road America last year. Mumford won two races later at Laguna (or was it Sears?).

I think that Mumford was an exceptional talent at Laguna (his home track). This made up for the shortfalls the Viper CC has against the Audi and the M3's last year.

[ViperACR]

I Viper race car is almost exactly the same engine as the road car except for a bigger cam. So I dont see how modifying the SRT would be very difficult, but if Chrysler does not have any intentions on doing this then it really does not matter. How exactly is the car not legal for ALMS. I think it falls within the weight requirements. What needs to be changed

[RM40]

I believe the engine is too big. The engine is 8.3L, when the ACO GTS/GT limit is 8.0L.

[Fogelhund]

In addition to the engine size is that of homologation requirements for road cars.

The standard fare Viper would be fine, assuming the engine was sleaved.

The Competition Coupe has zero cars produced for the road, and would not be allowed per ACO rules.

[ViperACR]

I just read the road and track article that you supplied and it clearly states that chrylser is negotiating with those racing series including ALMS as to the requirements in getting it approved for next years racing schedule.

[paul-collins]

Fogelhund's point is this: The rules are specific, what's to negotiate? Either they meet numbers or they don't.

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by paul-collins
Fogelhund's point is this: The rules are specific, what's to negotiate? Either they meet numbers or they don't.

...and they reference the Competition Coupe specifically, a car for reasons mentioned above that will never be eligible to run in ACO/ALMS comp.

....and in addition, with an understanding of the GrandAm and ALMS classes, you can see quite clearly the article is speaking clearly of GrandAM, even though ALMS is mentioned.

Actually, the article came from Car&Driver, but where it is from is neither here, nor there.

[dj4monie]

There will be a regular production Viper Coupe. It's the worst kept rumor in Detroit...

The GTS Coupe outsold the roadster two to one when it was in production.

Orcea has been in the driver's seat of this project for several momths. They are just waiting for the go ahead to put the Viper Coupe in production. Right now they are trying to figure out where in the market to place it. I think final word will come down when they see what sales are like for the ZO6 C6 and Ford GT.

You will see a Viper GT-SR by 2006 if not earlier.

But you also have to remember McLaren wants to run the SLR so it depends how much DC has to foot the bill for. If McLaren finds the budget to run the car largely themselves witht he blessing from DC, then that will leave budget for the GTS-R's to be built as soon as the GT-S production starts.

[ViperACR]

There is no doubt that the Vipers will be back with a coupe, but you are right it does depend on whether DC wnats the SLR to succeed more than the Viper. But Ferrari owns Maserrati and yet it lets it compete also. We will have to wait and see.