[Official] German Grand Prix 2016: Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

think Nico is lucky that Max chose to not really defend. certainly went a long way in helping Nico keep his title hopes alive.

Absolutely agreed. My son and I called Rosberg on it as soon as we saw it. He was determined to maintain a straight line until there was no chance of Verstappen going around the outside. Utter tosh about being on full lock - yes he was, but not until he had maintained a straight line deep into the normal turning area. I saw it as completely deliberate.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

And now Hulkenberg is demoted one place on the grid because of a mistake by Force India using the wrong set of tyres in Q1.

Why is it that a driver is punished for a team's error when he cannot possibly have had any input, yet a driver that leaves his garage recklessly, i.e. not looking for oncoming traffic, is not sanctioned?

Or is it that one set of "clarifications" apply to Hamilton, whilst another set is applied to the rest of the grid?

Recklessly? Not looking for oncoming traffic? With modern head-restraints, HANS and tiddly mirrors a driver has no chance of looking for what's coming. He goes when he's told to. Nevertheless, I was a bit surprised the penalty wasn't a bit more severe for team and driver. Does anyone have any precedents either way or unsafe releases during practice?

[TrapezeArtist]

Rosberg really seems to have lost the plot when it comes to defending his place into a corner. You really couldn't have set up a better carbon-copy of Austria than what we saw today in Germany. Protesting that he did nothing wrong gains him no credit whatsoever. A little contrition would be better.

When I first saw the incident, I wasn't quite sure. Did Rosberg just outbrake himself? On the replays it was pretty clear that he didn't (unless Mercedes would care to share some telemetry with us that might absolve him) and he just kept going straight until he was right out at the white line. Not dangerous, but wholly unsporting, and the penalty was deserved. Max did twitch towards the inside but I think that was a turn-in and he quickly got out of it when he saw Rosberg coming. It wasn't a "change of direction".

The organisers' relaxing of the track limits rules was a nonsense. "It's OK to drive off the track, but please try to keep it in the same county." When will someone realise that if you provide flat grippy kerbs drivers will treat them as a part of the track and drive out to the edge of them? Get rid of kerbs altogether and drivers will still drive to the edge of what is available to them, but it will be the edge of the track as we properly understand it.

Was Murray Walker helping in the Mercedes garage today? "I've stopped my start-watch".

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

Rosberg really seems to have lost the plot when it comes to defending his place into a corner. You really couldn't have set up a better carbon-copy of Austria than what we saw today in Germany. Protesting that he did nothing wrong gains him no credit whatsoever. A little contrition would be better.

When I first saw the incident, I wasn't quite sure. Did Rosberg just outbrake himself? On the replays it was pretty clear that he didn't (unless Mercedes would care to share some telemetry with us that might absolve him) and he just kept going straight until he was right out at the white line. Not dangerous, but wholly unsporting, and the penalty was deserved. Max did twitch towards the inside but I think that was a turn-in and he quickly got out of it when he saw Rosberg coming. It wasn't a "change of direction".

Pretty much agree - except I thought it suspect from the first.....Nico just displays a childish refusal to accept responsibility for his own actions............As Horner (I think) said - "he's just not very good at it" when referring to Rosberg's attempts to run competitors wide. He could have achieved a similar result without being so blatant about it, but still whinged about it on the radio when caught out.....

[Wims]

As pointed out earlier in this thread, Rosberg deliberately didn't turn into the corner until the very last moment before he ran out of road, literally driving Verstappen off the road. It reminded me of Schumacher at La Rascasse. The penalty was just and appropriate

[gert]

Originally Posted by Wims

As pointed out earlier in this thread, Rosberg deliberately didn't turn into the corner until the very last moment before he ran out of road, literally driving Verstappen off the road. It reminded me of Schumacher at La Rascasse. The penalty was just and appropriate

I agree but want to see that penalty handed out consequently every single time. Or ignored every single time.

That includes Hamilton when he forces Rosberg wide, Verstappen when he does his tricks, etc...
Everyone, or no-one at all.

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

Recklessly? Not looking for oncoming traffic? With modern head-restraints, HANS and tiddly mirrors a driver has no chance of looking for what's coming. He goes when he's told to. Nevertheless, I was a bit surprised the penalty wasn't a bit more severe for team and driver. Does anyone have any precedents either way or unsafe releases during practice?

Same here. I agree with you that we can't call it recklessly for the responsibility is with the team (the man with the lollipop or otherwise waving the driver out)
However, it would be the right thing to do to punish all unsafe releases in the same way. Or otherwise not punish them at all.

Other case: Hulkenberg - demoted on the grid (don't know which race by heart)

[old man]

With only 30 comments on here about the German GP it seems to have failed to generate much interest and a piece in Autosport's web edition by Dieter Rencken sums up the difficulties faced by the event that attracted only 57,000 spectators.

It also nicely points out some other problems in this crowded season. A friend with whom I attended Silverstone on Saturday did not join me on Sunday as he had so much to "do", what with the German GP, the Spa 24 hours and the BTCC all clashing on TV, a surfeit of riches.

But this crowded programme is a real problem in what is now a "smaller" Europe. I seem to recall that the FIA at one time tried to restrict competition for spectator interest by ensuring major events did not clash.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by old man

With only 30 comments on here about the German GP it seems to have failed to generate much interest and a piece in Autosport's web edition by Dieter Rencken sums up the difficulties faced by the event that attracted only 57,000 spectators.

It also nicely points out some other problems in this crowded season. A friend with whom I attended Silverstone on Saturday did not join me on Sunday as he had so much to "do", what with the German GP, the Spa 24 hours and the BTCC all clashing on TV, a surfeit of riches.

But this crowded programme is a real problem in what is now a "smaller" Europe. I seem to recall that the FIA at one time tried to restrict competition for spectator interest by ensuring major events did not clash.

Only 57,000 spectators? The main stand can hold in excess of 100,000. I noticed during the race, the last section of the main stand had its seats covered with huge Rolex tarpaulins. Watch from 0.30. https://youtu.be/O17BEuDMSvE

[wolfhound]

There is another little nugget in that article by Dieter Rencken.
It concerns Formula one World Travel who buy up all the hotel rooms surrounding a GP venue before the dates are announced. They then sell them at a healthy profit to those attending the GP in one form or another. FOWT is owned by FOM.

If that is not insider trading I don't know what is?

[P38 in workshop]

Did anybody else think that freeing up the use of radio made it a more interesting race?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

Did anybody else think that freeing up the use of radio made it a more interesting race?

Vettel's disagreement over strategy with Ferrari, in itself was interesting. Otherwise no.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

Did anybody else think that freeing up the use of radio made it a more interesting race?

hard question...as much as i dont like the rules relaxation i cant deny that it opens up a window into the team dynamics and thats interesting

Ferrari probably didnt need any more fuel on the fire but it seems like their drivers dont have a lot of faith in their pitwall these days.

its entertainment for sure but its maybe more of the tabloid variety...thats not to say its all bad because it does generate discussion.

i think the only driver that looked better because of the change was LH.

last race (before the change) and this one (after the change) i feel like his team didnt offer him any advise on how to manage his engine because they were worried about the RBs catching up so LH just managed it on his own and nor did he ask for help(as far as i know) and had two brilliant races.

[Wims]

I really liked the relaxed radio rules, it was absurd that communication was outlawed in this information age

[bella]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Only 57,000 spectators? The main stand can hold in excess of 100,000. I noticed during the race, the last section of the main stand had its seats covered with huge Rolex tarpaulins. Watch from 0.30. https://youtu.be/O17BEuDMSvE

same happened in austria this year, towards turn 2. much mocked when those tarps were first seen in china and iirc, turkey...

i went to the german gp at the nurburgring about 7 years ago and they did a short notice lottery type ticket - 99€, and you could get anything from a general admission ticket to top notch grandstand tickets. we got 1st corner top tier seats which were selling for something daft like €450.

the thing is, casual fans can watch it on telly if they're determined enough to pay for ppv coverage. and if they can watch it on telly in epic hd *and* live why bother going to the circuit? neither hockenheim nor the nurburgring has much magic next to spa, which is only 2 hours up the road (ish).

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by bella

same happened in austria this year, towards turn 2. much mocked when those tarps were first seen in china and iirc, turkey...

i went to the german gp at the nurburgring about 7 years ago and they did a short notice lottery type ticket - 99€, and you could get anything from a general admission ticket to top notch grandstand tickets. we got 1st corner top tier seats which were selling for something daft like €450.

the thing is, casual fans can watch it on telly if they're determined enough to pay for ppv coverage. and if they can watch it on telly in epic hd *and* live why bother going to the circuit? neither hockenheim nor the nurburgring has much magic next to spa, which is only 2 hours up the road (ish).

China and Turkey were different, in that neither country had or has any grass roots motorsport or motorsport tradition, therefore few people went to watch. Despite having probably the best Tilkedrome, Turkey left Bernie's F1 club because they couldn't afford his sanctioning fee and were making a loss and China nearly quit for the same reason but struck a deal, in 2011 with Bernie, to extend the event until 2017.

It would be interesting to see if F1's ppv audience has declined and if so by how much?

[old man]

It really is a dilemma for the organisers all round, the fact is that you see more of the action on TV so even if you have grandstand seats you see less. I watched the British GP from a grandstand seat this year and found myself trying to see the big screen and asking the teenager next to me for the timing screen she had on her phone.

Same applies at Le Mans and whilst the atmosphere is fantastic the only way to know what is happening is to have access to the timing screens, Radio LM and TV.

As a much younger man I used to argue that it was better to be there because of paddock access but F1 Meetings do not allow any sort of paddock visit except for the privileged few and even BRDC members access to the pit walk at Silverstone is by lottery. I really do see why attendance is falling and Bernie is, from an income point of view, better to get the money from TV but he should recognise this in his circuit fee.

Football at one time resisted televising matches because of fears for gate receipts and I am not sure if even now the timing of top TV games is not deliberately kept away from Saturday afternoon. TV rules sport these days

[dsg]

I've had similar arguments about viewing F1 and V8s. At the more interesting circuits a grandstand or track-side seat only allows a view of 2 or 3 corners. The last race I attended I seemed to spend most of the time looking at the jumbo screen across from the grandstand. What's more I pay about the same to to see HD coverage of all the races via pay TV as I would to attend one race.

[old man]

Quit true dsg, the cost for a couple to attend a Grand Prix with seats and "full" access for qualifying and the race would run to 4 figures and yet they may see less, and know less than staying in the comfort of their own home. True, there is something about just "being there" but I do feel that fun fairs, special track demonstrations and air displays are no real substitute for access to race cars and teams and, as things are, a paying spectator does not even get close to the support paddocks.

Motor Race meetings are all about the cars and their relative performance in the hands of skilled drivers. The quality and depth of the F1 TV coverage means we know almost all there is to know but nothing beats first hand experience and as long as paying spectators are kept away from viewing the cars and personalities close to, attendance figures will drop. However crowds of people add atmosphere

But the events have to take place for TV to have something to show, so as I said, we have a major dilemma. This is of course part of the overall malaise that affects F1, the distribution of the income.