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Old 30 Jan 2004, 01:38 (Ref:855871)   #1
Kirk
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Kirk has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Who is better? Rubens or Schumi

Both are fast. Both drive Ferraris. Schumi has proven to be less than a sportsman whereas Rubens is a good sport in every aspect. Rubens also is very smooth and a fine gentleman. Schumi has raw speed but risks lives in pursuit of wins on the track. I'd have to give the nod to Rubens.
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 01:41 (Ref:855874)   #2
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Snrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSnrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Come on now, let's be realistic here.
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 01:47 (Ref:855880)   #3
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GP Racer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridGP Racer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Kirk, I disagree with your assesment of Michael being less of a sportsman.

The man bends over backwards to always thank his team for his wins. He always compliments other drivers, even though he gets little in return from them. And who does more for charity than he does?

And if both are driving Ferrari's, why hasn't Rubens done NEARLY as much as Michael has with his career?(and its not all team orders!)

But Rubens is a very good man, no doubt...
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 01:47 (Ref:855881)   #4
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Kirk has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Why? Another parallel posting is just as ludicrous, yet no one seems to find it unrealistic!
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 02:55 (Ref:855912)   #5
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Jukebox should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Difference between those two...Michael - most gifted, consistent and talented driver ever! and Rubens - just a talented driver like the others.
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 02:56 (Ref:855913)   #6
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Gt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It's your opinion (which i do respect), and quite rightly, it's in the minority. Wonder why?

People rank Michael along the greats of the past, Senna, Fangio, etc... does Rubens even qualify in the top 10?

I don't know the motives behind this thread. But taking it in good light, i'd give the vote to MS (for objective reasons so blatantly obvious).

Both are fast, no doubt. But more often than not Michael is the faster of the 2. That is not to say that RB isn't good..He is. I agree he is very smooth and that now RB has mastered left foot braking, he would be quicker. And RB has always been a potential, and is improving with every season. Compared to the other top teams, he is better than DC and Ralf. However, on average, Michael is faster and more consistent than RB (though in 03 its close)

May i also add that RB is one of the best wet weathered drivers around along with Michael, if not slightly better, but all that RB lacks most is consistency and mental/physical fitness when compared to MS.

RB is also a hardworking bloke and a very good tester. In that respect, he is seemingly better than JPM. But in that respect, Michael is even more precise and hardworking.

And i beg to differ that "Michael risk lives to win" and "less a sportsman". Firstly, anybody who seriously think Michael put lives at risk at Aust 94/Jerez 97 or his defending position tactics are simply and grossly over-exaggerating the consequences. Unfair? Maybe. Dangerous? Perhaps. Fatal? Probably not. Secondly, Michael had shown more respect for his competitors more than they had given back/deserved. Everybody praises JV/JPM whenever they blast MS in public, saying how much personality they possess. But anything said by MS, when negative (rarely) is criticised of lack of sportsmanship , when positive is branded "mind games" or "MS fears". MS had put in many good words for his various competitors in fair judgements, and also, never failed to thank/recognise/reward his team for their contribuiton. His loyalty towards BS last year speaks volumes of his class.

There's really not much need to go furthermore. Either you accept it already or you continue to decieve yourself. If one concludes MS isn't good by now, it's unlikely they'd change their mind in the space of a thread..




PS BTW, DH/JV is a rather fair comparison considering the no. of WDC, their results in the same team, their performance in less desirable cars,etc....

Last edited by Gt_R; 30 Jan 2004 at 03:00.
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 04:53 (Ref:855970)   #7
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Hmmmm, that's like saying who's better, Frentzen or Yoong??
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 05:27 (Ref:855976)   #8
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Re: Who is better? Rubens or Schumi

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirk
Both are fast. Both drive Ferraris. Schumi has proven to be less than a sportsman whereas Rubens is a good sport in every aspect. Rubens also is very smooth and a fine gentleman. Schumi has raw speed but risks lives in pursuit of wins on the track. I'd have to give the nod to Rubens.
Was it John McEnroe who said:

"YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS"

Rubens - A grade driver, fast, reliable, as or near as good as anyone currently on the grid and in another era probably a WDC candidate. Against MS, he is made to look "relatively" ordinary on most occaisions (like everybody else).

Schumi - Virtoso, equal to, if not, THE best driver ever. Only Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Prost and Senna can really be mentioned in the same breath IMO.

Perhaps the post should have Rubens vs JPM or Hakk or Kimi or whoever...

Interestingly, other drivers who were inherently risky much of the time (Gilles V, Senna, Peterson a few e.g.'s) don't suffer the same anti-passion that MS does. In fact, they are revered for their "balls and all" style...interesting.

Last edited by deeks6; 30 Jan 2004 at 05:30.
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 07:17 (Ref:856025)   #9
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DriverT should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
That cannot be a serious question, as the answer is so obvious. Just compare their records for a start to find that Rubens is clearly the better driver. NOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 08:47 (Ref:856083)   #10
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Micheal.

This in no way reflects badly on Rubens, who has his days (and quite a few of them).

(I can't even be bothered to be sarcy )
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 09:08 (Ref:856103)   #11
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jetsetter should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think Schumi by a country mile.
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 09:15 (Ref:856110)   #12
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There is only one answer, Michael of course.
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 09:21 (Ref:856119)   #13
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Originally posted by Kirk in the Damon v JV thread
Some questions aren't worth a response, but I will say one thing. Try to forget the fact that Hill is a Brit, folks. Then respond from your head, not heart. Geeeeeeeeeeeesh!
I guess when you started this thread, your head was out of service then

I head says Michael, my heart says Michael and to assist you in getting help.
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 09:42 (Ref:856142)   #14
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ASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Well, Michael certainly is the most successful driver in F1 history so Michael is better, much better than Rubens.

I need a shower now...
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 10:05 (Ref:856170)   #15
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Originally posted by Jukebox
Difference between those two...Michael - most gifted, consistent and talented driver ever! and Rubens - just a talented driver like the others.
Generally agree with this although might dispute the most 'talented' driver ever tag. Come on Kirk, the man has won 6 WDCs. Ruben's over a comparable timespan has won a few races and he's very good but even if he does eventually win a WDC, he will never be ranked in the all time great list whereas Michael is already there and will remain so.

Now, on driver ethics, that's a different matter and i don't quite agree with Deeks on this. I think those that could see beyond Senna's pure driving skills have rightly tainted him with the same brush as Michael. I believe MS used Senna as a role model for his driver ethics and as such did himself no favours in this area.
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 10:50 (Ref:856230)   #16
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corkholio should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Given that Schumacher has 6 more WDCs and a lot more wins than Rubens, my heart is inclined to say Schumacher is the better driver of the two, but my head tells me that if I don't say Rubens there will another one of these threads started by what appears to be a bitter fan of a bitter ex-F1 driver who started this thread in the first place because he didn't like the results of that other thread.
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 11:11 (Ref:856242)   #17
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av8rirl should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
TGF v Rubens. 6 WDC v 0 WDC. Doesn't sound like much of a contest?
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 11:54 (Ref:856267)   #18
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BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Rubens is very good, no doubt about it. Michael is in a different league ultimately though. He took one race to be snapped up from Jordan. Rubens took 4 years, and that was a move backwards. Rubens has had 4 seaosns to get on level terms with Michael, but has only outperformed him half a dozen times - Silverstone, Suzuka and Interlagos last eyar among them. Rubens is still improving slightly and Mcihael can arguably (hopefully?) get no better, but there's still a distance between them.
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 11:56 (Ref:856271)   #19
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Try Hard should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Can i offer a subjective veiw here, what about if the roles were reveresed, and rubhino was given the opportunities that micheal had (a team mate to do his bidding etc), would he have achieved the same results a schumi??
He would have won a fair few more races for sure... but would he be as succesful in terms of WDC (and therefore automatically rated a great driver, or so it seems by veiws on this thread)??
Personally, I don't like micheal much, but i do respect what he has acheived, and the fact that he is very quick in a car. But some of the methods he has used to get that succes, sometimes i don't agree with (its the sportsman in me). Silverstone '03, and some of his starts spring to mind.
And Gt R, I beg to differ with this
Quote:
And i beg to differ that "Michael risk lives to win" and "less a sportsman". Firstly, anybody who seriously think Michael put lives at risk at Aust 94/Jerez 97 or his defending position tactics are simply and grossly over-exaggerating the consequences. Unfair? Maybe. Dangerous? Perhaps. Fatal? Probably not.
Any driver who forces another driver into a position where an accident is possible, is risking that drivers life! it is showing a great lack of respect for his fellow drivers. F1 maybe safer now than a 10 or so years ago, but if you think about they are still travelling at very fast speeds, an an element of the unknown still exists with what can happen in an accident. Could ever imagine someone like Clark of Fangio doing that if they were in Schumis position, I think not.

Also, if we're going down the route of simply saying whose best by comparing WDC, then what about moss? Never won a WDC, but one of the greats for sure....

But to get back on thread, Micheal is better than Rubens (althought it is probably a lot closer than people think)

Regards
Ed

Last edited by Try Hard; 30 Jan 2004 at 11:57.
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 12:09 (Ref:856279)   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by corkholio
there will another one of these threads started by what appears to be a bitter fan of a bitter ex-F1 driver who started this thread in the first place because he didn't like the results of that other thread.
How cynical can you get Cork?
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 12:18 (Ref:856285)   #21
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Smokey 6 litre should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally posted by GP Racer
Kirk, I disagree with your assesment of Michael being less of a sportsman.
i dont think Rubens would've forced Alonso onto the grass at 150mph at silverstone as TGF did, or would've been involved in the '94 and '97 incidents!

If Rubens could consistantly show the form he did at silverstone he could beat TGF to the title!
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 12:18 (Ref:856286)   #22
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Silly question.

The Grumpy1
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 12:33 (Ref:856301)   #23
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can I sleep on this one
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 15:19 (Ref:856487)   #24
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GP Racer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridGP Racer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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can I sleep on this one
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Old 30 Jan 2004, 15:50 (Ref:856525)   #25
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Originally posted by Redblurr
can I sleep on this one
Why didnt I think of that (instead of getting sucked in to the silliest question I've ever seen)?

Good answer
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