[Rules] Future Rule Changes

[chillibowl]

a few websites are running quotes/articles from Wolff commenting on the new radio ban with Wolff suggesting in a positive way that it will lead to more driver errors variable results etc.

but as far as i can tell no articles highlighting exactly which types of radio communications will and will not be allowed. more details to come i would imagine.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123148

[chillibowl]

lol there was a link embedded in the article of the changes proposed last year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120465/

From the one-minute signal, and until the race-start signal, the only permitted messages are to tell a driver of a critical problem with the car, e.g. puncture warning or damage, or to inform him of a problem with a competitor's car.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

lol there was a link embedded in the article of the changes proposed last year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120465/

From the one-minute signal, and until the race-start signal, the only permitted messages are to tell a driver of a critical problem with the car, e.g. puncture warning or damage, or to inform him of a problem with a competitor's car.

I remember a time when all the teams and drivers had, was a pit board.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

But the 'Referee' had to hold up a bit of card with the country initials on it to show the spectators and viewers (I assume) who was just eliminated. How's that going to work at GPs? It will hopefully be easy for those watching on TV to keep up with which driver is eliminated as they will no doubt be told, but I wonder how spectators at the circuit are going to find out, except when a car doesn't come round again. Or is it essential for them nowadays to have a phone or device to be kept informed?

The piece of paper probably harks back to pre electronic gizmo days and is a fallback/confirmation. At the track the spectators are told by the announcer and the screens. They showed it on telly because, well, why not.

Originally Posted by old man

Watching the cycling world championships last night it featured the men's "Omnium" which is a set of 6 events one if which is the "Elimination Race" where the winner is effectively the last man still riding. The field of about 15 - 20 riders was cut down by eliminating the last man across the line every other lap. The riders each had an electronic device on the bars that flashed to say they were out.

Actually was quite exciting if you were rooting for a particular rider, Marc Cavendish in my case

Again, "Devil Take the Hindmost"

And there was the Madison. Brilliant stuff. F1 has nowt on that.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

but as far as i can tell no articles highlighting exactly which types of radio communications will and will not be allowed. more details to come i would imagine.

Below is the proposed list of allowable communications, with only 7 types of message allowed once the car has left the garage to join the track for the start of the race; however, negotiations are still taking place, and Charlie Whiting will probably only announce the final list of what is and isn't allowed on the eve of the Melbourne meeting. Taken from: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/an...an-677934/?s=1

The original list of what is allowed

* Indication of a critical problem with the car, e.g. a puncture warning or damage+
* Indication of a problem with a competitor's car+
* Instruction to enter the pit lane in order to fix or retire the car+
* Wet track, oil or debris in certain corners+
* Marshalling information (red flag, yellow flag, race start aborted or other similar instructions or information from race control)+
* Instructions to swap positions with other drivers+
* Acknowledgement that a driver message has been heard
* Lap or sector time detail
* Lap time detail of a competitor
* Gaps to a competitor during practice session or race
* 'Push hard', 'Push now', 'You will be racing xx' or similar
* Helping with warning of traffic during a practice session or race
* Giving the gaps between cars in qualifying so as to better position the car for a clear lap
* Tyre choice at the next pit stop
* Number of laps a competitor has done on a set of tyres during a race
* Tyre specification of a competitor
* Information concerning a competitor's likely race strategy
* Safety Car window
* Driving breaches by team driver or competitors, e.g. missing chicanes, running off track, time penalty will be applied etc.
* Notification that DRS is enabled or disabled
* Dealing with a DRS system failure
* Change of front wing position at next pit stop
* Oil transfer
* When to enter the pits
* Reminders to check for white lines, bollards, weighbridge lights when entering or leaving the pits
* Reminders about track limits
* Information concerning damage to the car
* Passing on messages from race control
* Number of laps remaining
* Test sequence information during practice sessions, e.g. aero-mapping
* Weather information
* Instructions to select driver defaults for the sole purpose of mitigating loss of function of a sensor, actuator or controller whose degradation or failure was not detected and handled by the on-board software. In according with Article 8.2.4, any new setting chosen in this way must not enhance the performance of the car beyond that prior to the loss of function+

(+) These are the only messages that may be passed to the drivers, whilst he is in the car and on the track, from the time the car leaves the garage for the first time after the pit lane is open on the day of the race until the start of the race.

[chillibowl]

thanks Mike

i really need to start heading to motorsport.com as my fist source of info.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

thanks Mike

i really need to start heading to motorsport.com as my fist source of info.

Are you stalking me?

And you made a real fist of your last posting!

[chillibowl]

haha!

[Mike Harte]

According to Motorsport dot com, http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/an...to-677975/?s=1 , there might still be some doubt as to whether the new qualifying musical chairs style rules will actually come into force at Melbourne, or indeed ever. As commented earlier in this thread (I believe) several teams have thought better about the proposal since they voted it through at the Strategy Group meeting, as well as BCE, and the above website is interpreting the FIA's communiqué as indicating that the new rule for the qualifying needs to be agreed by the Strategy Group and go through the process again.

The fly in the ointment would seem to be, principally, that Ferrari have now decided that they are against the proposal, and that this will allow them to use their veto to stop it in it's tracks (no pun intended!).

This season has all the ingredients to make it a humdinger, but unfortunately only off the circuits.

[S griffin]

Isn't the first time Bernie's made them sign something before they've had time to think about it. No wonder F1 is such a mess

[wnut]

Speed increase meaningless if drivers aren't on the limit - Webber.


http://www.f1reader.com/news/mark-we...e-limit-139590

[fredd1]

Ahh, yes. The Fezza veto.
Just beats me why it has taken so long for the collective penny to drop.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

According to Motorsport dot com, http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/an...to-677975/?s=1 , there might still be some doubt as to whether the new qualifying musical chairs style rules will actually come into force at Melbourne, or indeed ever. As commented earlier in this thread (I believe) several teams have thought better about the proposal since they voted it through at the Strategy Group meeting, as well as BCE, and the above website is interpreting the FIA's communiqué as indicating that the new rule for the qualifying needs to be agreed by the Strategy Group and go through the process again.

The fly in the ointment would seem to be, principally, that Ferrari have now decided that they are against the proposal, and that this will allow them to use their veto to stop it in it's tracks (no pun intended!).

This season has all the ingredients to make it a humdinger, but unfortunately only off the circuits.

They should have tried the Q format at the Spanish test. The main issue is how the tyre degradation plays out.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Adam43

They should have tried the Q format at the Spanish test. The main issue is how the tyre degradation plays out.

I think Mercedes are sand bagging until they are as happy with the regs as possible, they don't want to scare Bernie and the FIA into making real changes that might impact on their future dominance.

What would have happened if they aced the opposition by 3 secs a lap in testing?

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by wnut

Speed increase meaningless if drivers aren't on the limit - Webber.


http://www.f1reader.com/news/mark-we...e-limit-139590

My standing on this is somewhat ambiguous. On one hand, I hate the Pirelli tires for being an artificial gimmick. On the other, I would like to see the ban on in-race refueling to stay. In fact, I would love to see tire changes being binned as well. Let drivers do the race on their own. This would force drivers to drive truly "alone and unaided". However, this would make it impossible to be on the very limit the entire race distance. But this was quite common and often resulted in spectacle races before 1994.

[S griffin]

So what's the thing with the new tyre rules? It's now three sets, but are they still doing the compulsory tyre stop?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by wnut

I think Mercedes are sand bagging until they are as happy with the regs as possible, they don't want to scare Bernie and the FIA into making real changes that might impact on their future dominance.

What would have happened if they aced the opposition by 3 secs a lap in testing?

Did you mean to quote me? My point was about qualifying and the tyres going off probably meaning your first lap is your best so the knock out might not work

Mercedes were simply running through a sensible test programme concentrating on the areas they need to. Reliability, set-up and development was the order of the day. They have an advantage carry over from last year and didn't need to bolt on sets of ultra-super-duper sorts. Their main rationale was to gain the most out of testing, rather than sandbagging in case someone gets upset. Apart from anything else if they were sandbagging they did an awful job of it as it is clear for anyone who knows anything about F1, and I assume Bernie and FIA do, that they have the strongest car by a decent margin.

[wnut]

Sorry Adam, I got it in my head that you were criticising Mercedes for not running in qualifying trim.
Glossing bits and pieces between other tasks. My bad.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Looks like Lewis is in favour of giving the new qualifying format a go.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123195

[Sodemo]

Does anyone have any kind of info on Ferrari's "veto" that they have? Is it just the one team (ie Ferrari) that has this power within F1?

[Mike Harte]

Yes, it is only Ferrari that has the power of a veto, although over the years it's use has been curtailed. It was initially granted as part of a new contract agreement that Mr E conducted with Ferrari about 20 years ago in order to get Ferrari to break ranks with the rest of the F1 teams. Typical Bernie tactic, divide and rule!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by wnut

Sorry Adam, I got it in my head that you were criticising Mercedes for not running in qualifying trim.
Glossing bits and pieces between other tasks. My bad.

It's alright, I was just a bit confused.

Anyway criticising Mercedes is your job

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Has there been a definitive on what qually system is actually going to be used in Aus?

6-6-10 as previous rules
6-8-8 using previous rules
6-8-8 previous rules for Q1 and Q2 with musical chairs in Q3
6-8-8 all musical chairs

Why does F1 always make life so difficult for themselves ?

[rpolinski]

I'm not sure if someone has already suggested this, but I can see that the qualifying change will indeed increase the spectacle and mix up the grid, just not in the way they were expecting. I can imagine the spectacle as post-qualifying steward's meeting taking longer than qualifying itself as the line of drivers argue that they were eliminated because driver X held them up on a fast lap. And the grid will be mixed up as the penalties are applied and the starting grid shows little resemblance to the order in which they finish qualifying.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by rpolinski

I'm not sure if someone has already suggested this, but I can see that the qualifying change will indeed increase the spectacle and mix up the grid, just not in the way they were expecting. I can imagine the spectacle as post-qualifying steward's meeting taking longer than qualifying itself as the line of drivers argue that they were eliminated because driver X held them up on a fast lap. And the grid will be mixed up as the penalties are applied and the starting grid shows little resemblance to the order in which they finish qualifying.

I think this is the plan, create as much controversy and outrage as possible, and hopefully the motor racing press buys into it!

F1 finally goes WWF.

Perhaps they should get a bear pit and get the drivers to sort out their grievances amongst themselves after qualifying.