Could Red Bull favour 1 driver?

[manwell]

Ive just read an article where Flavio says that Red Bull really need to favour 1 driver as it could cost them the championship.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/18227/6...d-a-number-one

Funny he says that now as he is Webbers manager and Webber is currently leading Vettel and would be the best bet if they were to favour a driver.

But thats getting off the point i was going to make.
Its been reported that Vettel and Webber are on substantially less money as a base salary that a lot of other drivers of their caliber, but they get a larger bonus for wins they score.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/200820...arns-most.html

So just for instance if its coming down to the last few races of the season, Vettel is out of the title hunt so Red Bull put all their marbles behind Webber. If the Red Bull Drivers get a $500,000 bonus per win, how could they ask Vettel to pull over and let Webber win if he's going to be throwing away half a million bucks?
Surely they would have to work out some sort of compensation deal. I wonder if Ferrari had to so something similar. Although Massas $14million is a lot better then Vettels reported $2million and Ferrari might say we pay you the big dollars so we can tell you what to do.
Its a bit different to Vettel where his winning bonus might equal a quarter or more of his salary.

Personally i think once one driver is out of the chase, then its fine for him to play second fiddle to the guy who has a championship chance.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by manwell

Ive just read an article where Flavio says that Red Bull really need to favour 1 driver as it could cost them the championship.

It's no business of his despite the fact he 'owns' Webber. Webber is less than 10 points ahead of Vettel if you use last seasons point system.

I don't think that some have got their heads fully around the new points system yet.

Originally Posted by manwell

I wonder if Ferrari had to so something similar.

They just gave Massa a three year contract!!!

And if drivers are paid on a bonus system, then it's hardly surprising that they are going out for wins each race.

Originally Posted by manwell

Personally i think once one driver is out of the chase, then its fine for him to play second fiddle to the guy who has a championship chance.

Agreed, but even Massa isn't "out of the chase" yet.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by manwell

So just for instance if its coming down to the last few races of the season, Vettel is out of the title hunt so Red Bull put all their marbles behind Webber. If the Red Bull Drivers get a $500,000 bonus per win, how could they ask Vettel to pull over and let Webber win if he's going to be throwing away half a million bucks?

I would imagine it depends on the nuances of their contracts - it may not be as straightforward as Vettel saying "I want my money so I'm not moving out of the way". Red Bull are his employers, after all.

This does assume that Red Bull are willing to back Webber over Vettel in the first place, which they may not be prepared to do - they might well have to make a call on it if the gap between them grows over the next couple of races though. In one way or another they have favoured one driver this season, but unfortunately for them it's not the one who's in the lead now. I'm sure that behind the scenes Webber will be pushing for them to support him, but I can't imagine that going down too well with Marko and chums.

[Super Hans]

I don't think RBR will favour one driver.

Horner has been vehement in his opposition to team orders.

[Born Racer]

As Marbot points out, the championship's actually still close if you consider the old points system as a reference. And given there are five rounds left (four I suppose if Korea is not ready), they can't do anything yet. Webber is out front. If, and there is an if, Vettel is the preferred driver to win, I guess they also wouldn't ask him to be a number 2 yet.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

As Marbot points out, the championship's actually still close if you consider the old points system as a reference. And given there are five rounds left (four I suppose if Korea is not ready), they can't do anything yet. Webber is out front. If, and there is an if, Vettel is the preferred driver to win, I guess they also wouldn't ask him to be a number 2 yet.

Here's a question: If Vettel found himself mathematically unable to win the title and voluntarily surrendered a victory to Webber, how would you feel?

[rustyinsthoz]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Here's a question: If Vettel found himself mathematically unable to win the title and voluntarily surrendered a victory to Webber, how would you feel?

What's the point of the question? Would be a pretty obvious answer I would have thought.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by rustyinsthoz

What's the point of the question? Would be a pretty obvious answer I would have thought.

I asked the question of BR as he is against team orders. I was keen to hear his thoughts regarding team-mates helping each other out through their own choice, as opposed to being ordered to do so.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I don't think RBR will favour one driver.

Horner has been vehement in his opposition to team orders.

Hahaha.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I don't think RBR will favour one driver.

Horner has been vehement in his opposition to team orders.

I don't think he would be quite so principled if it comes down to the difference between winning the title and not.

[Splatz the Cow]

SuperH, its a good question, and I think when you said, "If Vettel was mathematically out of the WDC," it makes it easier to comment on the situation of team orders.

However, when Ferrari have done it (so clumsily) in the past, it has been in the middle of the year when the WDC was well alive. In fact, I think they start preseason testing with team orders.

Well, not just what does Born Racer think about it, I wonder what the FIA think?

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Splatz the Cow

SuperH, its a good question, and I think when you said, "If Vettel was mathematically out of the WDC," it makes it easier to comment on the situation of team orders.

However, when Ferrari have done it (so clumsily) in the past, it has been in the middle of the year when the WDC was well alive. In fact, I think they start preseason testing with team orders.

Well, not just what does Born Racer think about it, I wonder what the FIA think?

One of the questions asked regularly by those who oppose team orders is this: How can a driver be a champion if he hasn't beaten all the others fair and square? Surely this same objection would apply whether his team-mate let him through voluntarily or was ordered to by the team. And if a team-mate surrenders victory voluntarily, is he not guilty of race-fixing?

That's why I asked the question really.

[GTRMagic]

To answer "Could Red Bull favour 1 driver?"... could have a simple response..

... they already do! Just not Potsie

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

To answer "Could Red Bull favour 1 driver?"... could have a simple response..

... they already do! Just not Potsie

Someone please give Vettel a brake...I mean break.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Here's a question: If Vettel found himself mathematically unable to win the title and voluntarily surrendered a victory to Webber, how would you feel?

It's a good question and you're right to ask it, given all the drivers' championship debate. I would feel it wasn't a good thing and not a good thing in the interests of the competition of the drivers' championship. It wouldn't be a team order but it would still constitute a situation where a driver hasn't raced another where he should have (because they were in a race after all).

[hgmonaro]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Webber is less than 10 points ahead of Vettel if you use last seasons point system.

relevance?

Originally Posted by Marbot

I don't think that some have got their heads fully around the new points system yet.

and some can't let the old one go... How about we discuss this taking into account one of Bernie's hairbrain schemes he's dreamed up over the years. Just as pointless.

What you probably wanted to alude too, is there's less than one win between them.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I don't think RBR will favour one driver.

Horner has been vehement in his opposition to team orders.

Dieter Mateschitz is certainly vehemently against team orders, and was in the pits at Monza.

While I am against team orders, they are a reality, and it would just be plain stupid to beat yourselves out of a championship!

[Grandpa_Rob]

What do you make of this then: http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=49235

[stripedcat]

Flavio is used to running a team with a number one driver and a number two driver. Think back to Schumacher and also Alonso.

This isn't just a problem for Red Bull but also McLaren. Sooner or later one of them is going to have to decide in the following races who they support for the driver's title. Unless things are still very close. Either way it is a massive advantage for Alonso.

[Ralf's Girl]

I think McLaren would find it easier to make that decision that Red Bull because they haven't been seen to be backing one driver over the other earlier in the season. They claim to be staunchly anti-team orders, but they lost the title in 2007 because they let their drivers squabble for the entire season, and they wouldn't want that to happen again. They've been very clear about letting their drivers race, but they wouldn't have any embarrassment if they ultimately decided to put their eggs in the Hamilton basket because they thought he was their best chance for the title.

Red Bull have a bigger problem because, having very publicly favoured Vettel (whatever they may claim) in the first half of the season, it would be a fairly embarrassing climbdown to have to say that golden boy just can't do it this year and that he has to play rear gunner to Webber.