Proper Use of Safety Equipment

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Another thing I noticed is that some of the media and officials don't wear helmets when standing in the live pitlane.

I used to work in ptilane as an official, but never really came into close contacts with vehicles (including the V8's), the mechanics, fuelers etc interact with the cars, some have been knocked to the ground iin the past, so just a protective measure, the Safety Car driver doesn't wear one either, but then again why would she when she only does 80km/h.

[Bevan-L]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

....the Safety Car driver doesn't wear one either, but then again why would she when she only does 80km/h.

See above.

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

I used to work in ptilane as an official, but never really came into close contacts with vehicles (including the V8's), the mechanics, fuelers etc interact with the cars, some have been knocked to the ground iin the past, so just a protective measure, the Safety Car driver doesn't wear one either, but then again why would she when she only does 80km/h.

This is one reason to wear helmets in a live pit lane
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130348

What I thought was strange was Larko and his crew had no helmets, but another tv crew and the mechanics in pit lane did have them on.

[Woolley]

Up here it's normal (required? Certainly was when I was in one) for SC crew to be helmeted, but not other circuit vehicles. Helmets in a pit lane shouldn't be necessary, and arguably are a hindrance by reducing your awareness - restricted vision and hearing.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Up here it's normal (required? Certainly was when I was in one) for SC crew to be helmeted, but not other circuit vehicles. Helmets in a pit lane shouldn't be necessary, and arguably are a hindrance by reducing your awareness - restricted vision and hearing.

Helmets for SC crew less common down under - the SC never travels faster than 100KMH here so that may be the reason but the clips shown above do make you think don't they?

Helmets in pit lane became recommended for pit crews after a couple of booms were brought down onto crew members when cars' rear wings caught on the dangling air hoses. A range of measures were brought in at the time and helmets was one measure. Once the FIA had a standard for pit crew helmets, I'm pretty sure that they became mandatory for the crews. camera crews running in tight around the cars tend to wear helmets too but others don't - largely for exactly the reason you suggest Woolley - they reduce awareness.

Also, with someone like Larko who was mentioned above wearing a specific type of broadcast radio headset, it might not be possible for him to go down the helmet path in any case.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Up here it's normal (required? Certainly was when I was in one) for SC crew to be helmeted, but not other circuit vehicles.

Looking at the way the FIA Safety Car is driven I can see why but as mentioned already we don't tend to drive at speeds which require helmets and cages down here. Besides you don't need helmets on an autobahn and race tracks are just as safe to drive on in theory.

I reckon it's more important to wear seat belts in "other vehicles" just in case.



There's been several examples over the years of various support vehicles coming unstuck &/or hitting objects, usually caused by the driver forgetting he was NOT in a race car.

[Mr Revhead]

oops!!

Yeah I have often wondered why the Safety car crew is not required to wear helmets.
They are pulling out onto the track with the cars. The chance for a collision is fairl high.
Who recalls the Phillip island incident a couple of years back when the safety car parked at the end of pit straight? Could have been nasty! Or the incident in Spa when the safety car was smashed by a sports car. Or in Macua (pr was is Pau?) When it was collected by a BMW....

[Scrut]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

I used to work in ptilane as an official, but never really came into close contacts with vehicles (including the V8's), the mechanics, fuelers etc interact with the cars, some have been knocked to the ground iin the past, so just a protective measure, the Safety Car driver doesn't wear one either, but then again why would she when she only does 80km/h.

The Fire & Rescue team in Victoria were wearing helmets for both the
Phillip Island & Sandown V8 rounds in pit lane. The channel 7 film crew wear both helmets and race suits when in pit lane.

How long before the pit lane marshals, scrutineers and all other officials in pit lane will be required to be fully kitted up in race suits and helmets under the OH & S regulations?

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Helmets in pit lane became recommended for pit crews

Ah, good point. I was thinking with my marshalling head on. For people working on a pit crew in a crowded, busy pit lane they're a good idea. Get clipped by a car chances of your head hitting the pavement are high enough to make them advisable.

As for the fire car, I don't think he could have got a helmet to go over that bit...

[Bevan-L]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Who recalls the Phillip island incident a couple of years back when the safety car parked at the end of pit straight? Could have been nasty! Or the incident in Spa when the safety car was smashed by a sports car. Or in Macua (pr was is Pau?) When it was collected by a BMW....

you mean the videos that were posted on the first page??

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by Scrut

The Fire & Rescue team in Victoria were wearing helmets for both the Phillip Island & Sandown V8 rounds in pit lane.

That was a VFRS committee decision which had, and still has, many members wondering why??

Media (as in photographers & TV camera operators) and pit crews have thier eye on thier job rather than thier surroundings while the volunteer pit lane officials have to be observant so should spot a problem, or errant car, well before it becomes an issue.

Besides we can usually stand well back out of the way so fire resistant clothing and helmets are a bit of a waste of time.

[Mr Revhead]

Originally Posted by Bevan-L

you mean the videos that were posted on the first page??

2ND page but I missed those on first skim through...
But yes those are two incidents I am referring to.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

2ND page but I missed those on first skim through...
But yes those are two incidents I am referring to.

This is still the first page for people with a decent internet connection (and have the forum set to the max posts per page )

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Scrut

How long before the pit lane marshals, scrutineers and all other officials in pit lane will be required to be fully kitted up in race suits and helmets under the OH & S regulations?

As these people are NOT paid employees of either V8SCA or the tracks and they are generally volunteers, who is going to pay? these people generally only work at one track for one V8 Supercar event per year, so to kit them out is going to cost someone a lot of money.

[Scrut]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

As these people are NOT paid employees of either V8SCA or the tracks and they are generally volunteers, who is going to pay? these people generally only work at one track for one V8 Supercar event per year, so to kit them out is going to cost someone a lot of money.

Yes, US the volunteer official.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Ah, good point. I was thinking with my marshalling head on. For people working on a pit crew in a crowded, busy pit lane they're a good idea. Get clipped by a car chances of your head hitting the pavement are high enough to make them advisable.

As for the fire car, I don't think he could have got a helmet to go over that bit...

Remeber Woolley nearly all tracks have a pit lane speed limit of 40km/h these days, not too many run at higher speeds, once the V8's bought in 40 tracks had no choice as part of their risk managment process to drop the limit for all events, I guess this is one good thing to come from the panacea of motorsport

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Scrut

Yes, US the volunteer official.

too true Scrut, I used to one too a long time ago - LOL

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by Scrut

The Fire & Rescue team in Victoria were wearing helmets for both the
Phillip Island & Sandown V8 rounds in pit lane. The channel 7 film crew wear both helmets and race suits when in pit lane.

How long before the pit lane marshals, scrutineers and all other officials in pit lane will be required to be fully kitted up in race suits and helmets under the OH & S regulations?

Scrut, as an official (Fire/rescue Marshal, medical car driver, safety car driver, comms et al), of about 22 years, (and an ex member of VFRS) I am astounded that this decision was made by their committee.

In my real job, I am a Health Safety Enviro Manager, and risk needs to be controlled by other means, PPE is a last resort.

Back a long long time ago, I was still a VFRS member, and it was mooted that we should all wear helmets when working trackside at the Thunderdome (ahh the memories).
After a Friday trial they were packed back in their boxes, and never seen again (well, not by us....) as the obscured peripheral vision, but importantly muffled sound too much.
In short, experienced trackside Marshalls once upon a time developed skills known commonly as Trackcraft, and wearing helmets detracted heavily from that.

Back to pit lane, OHS Regs, protective equipment & the like.

No where in the current or forthcoming OHS Regs pertinent to motorsport is specific PPE dictated, (asbestos & lead obviously)
Employers have a duty to provide a safe environment for their workers, and when the new Workplace Health & Safety laws come in, everyone (including volunteers) are deemed workers)

A good pit lane fire marshal will not be standing on the same side as the cars, he/she should be over at the wall / on the grass etc, watching & waiting for when they need to move to a dangerous incident (fuel spill/fire).
Let’s be really honest here, the bulk of the time they are doing nothing but waiting, I know, I have stood in Pit Lane at Sandown, PI, Albert Park, Winton, Calder (circuit, Thunderdome & Drag strip start line) over the years. The biggest risks they face are boredom, heat stroke and getting sore feet,…

The wearing of correct protective equipment in pit lane shouldn’t be limited to the Teams, I fully agree TV personnel ARE in the firing line, because of where they place themselves (to get the best view of the Motortainment)


Obviously the Firies wear appropriate Fire protection for good reason, and if scrutineers are exposed to the risk of being injured by heat or fire, then they need to be wearing a flame resistant garment.
Once upon a time they wore white cotton drill overalls (Proban treated ??) which would provide adequate protection for the role they are performing, much more than a short sleeved polo shirt, which seems to have crept into their current apparel.

While we are focussing on appropriate pit lane apparel, let’s have a bit of a think about some of the current anomalies.

I will go out on a limb here and make a bold statement: “Pit lane is a dangerous place, all of the race weekend, not just during the V8 races”

Why then are V8 teams allowed to wear short sleeved shirts & shorts in pit lane (even when working on cars during practice)

And what about when the V8 circus and all its clowns rolls out of town?

[Hang on I just realised why they use Pink for the promo’s…Evil Clowns!!!!!!!]




Pit lane’s must be more dangerous at Shannons Nationals rounds, Historic, State & club level events, because nobody is allowed to wear shorts in pit lane at any of those events.

One in or all in, all of the time, not just when it suits, or is comfortable or fashionable.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Uncle Cranker

Why then are V8 teams allowed to wear short sleeved shirts & shorts in pit lane (even when working on cars during practice)

But not during the actual races (as shown by your picture above), it must be more dangerous then, I have often thought the same why are they allowed to be in shorts etc at all times except during races.

Typical V8SCA IMHO

[Bevan-L]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

This is still the first page for people with a decent internet connection (and have the forum set to the max posts per page )

Bingo hehe

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

But not during the actual races (as shown by your picture above), it must be more dangerous then, I have often thought the same why are they allowed to be in shorts etc at all times except during races.

Typical V8SCA IMHO

Fire suits etc are required for V8 crews when there is re-fuelling taking place in pit lane - the only times that teams are allowed to refuel in pit lane is during races or when specifically authorised in the regs for a race meeting (at Bathurst for example during the warm up they are allowed to use the fuel rigs so suits must be worn).

For helmets, again it is during races as this is the only time that the cars use the booms and drive out from under the boom under their own power, which is what causes the risk of catching a hose and bringing the boom down.

During prac, qual sessions the cars are pushed back by the team and only use their own power once they're out in the fast lane and well away from hoses etc.

That's the thinking behind the pit crew safety wear requirements.

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Fire suits etc are required for V8 crews when there is re-fuelling taking place in pit lane - the only times that teams are allowed to refuel in pit lane is during races or when specifically authorised in the regs for a race meeting (at Bathurst for example during the warm up they are allowed to use the fuel rigs so suits must be worn).

For helmets, again it is during races as this is the only time that the cars use the booms and drive out from under the boom under their own power, which is what causes the risk of catching a hose and bringing the boom down.

During prac, qual sessions the cars are pushed back by the team and only use their own power once they're out in the fast lane and well away from hoses etc.

That's the thinking behind the pit crew safety wear requirements.

So there is no danger from hot tyres/brakes/exhausts/bits of metal when the fuel rigs aren't being used, or pitstops being completed?
Sweet, lets tell those fire marshals that they don't have to wear their firesuits on the Friday, because the flame is cold and will only tickle you.
I'm sure they will be glad for it too, standing fully covered in a pit lane at Clipsal on a stinking hot Friday in March must suck when the guys standing next to you (who you are there to ultimately protect) are in a T-shirt and shorts.

Yep, great thinking there...

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Fire suits etc are required for V8 crews when there is re-fuelling taking place in pit lane - the only times that teams are allowed to refuel in pit lane is during races or when specifically authorised in the regs for a race meeting (at Bathurst for example during the warm up they are allowed to use the fuel rigs so suits must be worn).

For helmets, again it is during races as this is the only time that the cars use the booms and drive out from under the boom under their own power, which is what causes the risk of catching a hose and bringing the boom down.

During prac, qual sessions the cars are pushed back by the team and only use their own power once they're out in the fast lane and well away from hoses etc.

That's the thinking behind the pit crew safety wear requirements.

Oh so they don't come in and do tyre changes (where they use the gantry for the rattle guns) and set up changes during practice and qualiying, I must be watching a different event then and that time I spent working in pit lane must be a figment of my imagination

[peckstar]

what else have you observed about the way the cars leave the pit box during qualyfying and practice big trev?

It might just answer your question

[Tourer]

Hi bludvl and Big T,

Not sure how to multi-quote so will answer your points this way:
Bludvl: Of course there is risk of those items but the fire marshals also potentially need to walk in close to a fire with an extinguisher, thus the need for fire suits. The crews essentially are relying on the firies to walk in and deal with fire. In all honesty I'm not sure that I agree with the rational re crews and shorts but I've explained what that rationale is. There has clearly been an assessment made that the risk is manageable with the current apparel. Whether you agree with that or not is up to personal view points I guess. One point to note is that the dangers you mention are just as prevalent in the garages as in pit lane during prac sessions so I guess it becomes a case of where the line is drawn.

Big T, if you read my post again you'll see that I pointed out that the cars don't leave the boom area under their own power during prac and qual - that is the key difference between those sessions and races and it is the leaving under their own power which has resulted in booms coming down on crews before that has brought about the wearing of helmets.