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27 Aug 2016, 21:18 (Ref:3667916) | #26 | |||
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27 Aug 2016, 21:22 (Ref:3667917) | #27 | |||
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It's "Win together, lose together". Oddly enough this seems to be fully accepted by drivers and teams, and it's only pundits and forumites who see it differently. |
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27 Aug 2016, 22:37 (Ref:3667923) | #28 | ||
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The idea was that if a mechanical failure warrants a grid penalty under the rules, the team should bear that penalty by having points DEDUCTED from its score. If a driver warrants a penalty then grid position changes are reasonable.
Earnings for a team are somehow based upon points scored so deducting points would hit them in the pocket as Brundle points out. If MB were to have 55 points deducted from those scored up to now it would hurt and in a more competitive season could mean not winning the Team Championship. The penalty points need not be same as the grid place figure, that would be up to the FIA to stipulate. |
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27 Aug 2016, 23:40 (Ref:3667931) | #29 | |||
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27 Aug 2016, 23:59 (Ref:3667933) | #30 | |
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How about we change these grid penalties into time added to the first pit stop? For example, each grid place penalty in the current system could translate into 1 or 2 seconds being added to the car's first pitstop. That way everyone will get the same penalty no matter where they qualify.
Biggest problem I see is trying to keep casual fans engaged who just throw the race on on Sunday and may not understand why their favorite driver is getting a penalty that was gained earlier in the weekend. |
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28 Aug 2016, 00:16 (Ref:3667935) | #31 | ||||
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They win together, they lose together, they get rewarded together, they get penalised together. If you extend the idea of apportioning blame to either driver or other team members and therefore who suffers a points penalty, there is a logic fail. Let's say for example that a driver gets penalised for exceeding track limits. The driver could claim the fault lay with the setup of the car and that therefore the driver should not suffer a penalty. Likewise, a car controller could blame a driver for an unsafe release if the driver hesitated or jumped early - no doubt the driver could then blame the engine management or clutch engagement etc. It's potentially a never-ending cycle of finger pointing and negativity. On the other hand, as MB have designed built and run what is categorically the best car this year, does that mean that the drivers should not get rewarded with points as it is the work of other team members that has put the cars right at the front? I'm sorry, it's an unworkable idea and even less so as this is a team sport. |
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28 Aug 2016, 00:27 (Ref:3667938) | #32 | |||
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It would not have been ideal, but the current system isn't either. |
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28 Aug 2016, 01:26 (Ref:3667941) | #33 | |
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I haven't put a great deal of thought into flaws with this idea, but a way to stop the process of "banking" power supplies by using multiple in a weekend when multiple penalties are pointless is to just not let them "bank" them. In short set a maximum of power units that can be saved for reuse after a race weekend. So you can put as many in the car as you want over the course of a weekend, but once you are penalized to the back of the grid any additional unit can't be banked.
So you enter the weekend and swap units. That puts you at back of grid. You can keep that new unit after the weekend. Then, you swap in another during the weekend. Then the previous new unit is no longer eligible for reuse in the future. Rinse and repeat. It would allow unlimited units over a weekend, but you would always start at back of grid. Richard |
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28 Aug 2016, 01:34 (Ref:3667942) | #34 | ||
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But do they? Constructor's points are a combination of the driver's points. The driver's pints are purely individual. Nico's demotion from 2nd to 3rd at the British GP, affected Nico far more than it did Mercedes. It's needle between Nico and Lewis and the result was he lost 4 valuable points and the gap between him and Lewis closed to within a point. Yes Mercedes lost 4 points as well because of Nico's demotion but because Lewis won, this gave Mercedes another 25. So at the end of the day, after deducting 4 points because of Nico's demotion, they still came away with an extra 21 points.
Last edited by bjohnsonsmith; 28 Aug 2016 at 01:42. |
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28 Aug 2016, 02:49 (Ref:3667953) | #35 | |||
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As always, there will always be swings and roundabouts but in a team sport, that is the way it works. |
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28 Aug 2016, 03:19 (Ref:3667958) | #36 | |||
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28 Aug 2016, 09:02 (Ref:3667993) | #37 | ||
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We're drifting from the question of grid penalties to the one of team and driver championships. How about dropping the manufacturers championship altogether? It's only significance is the allocation of money in the following year, so that could be changed to one based on the drivers' points, or maybe even a more left-leaning system that didn't continually reward the haves at the expense of the have-nots.
In terms of publicity and marketing, it's far more valuable to Mercedes-Benz (as the current example) to have the World Championship driver on their team, than to be the World Championship team. |
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28 Aug 2016, 11:33 (Ref:3668018) | #38 | ||
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Ted Kravitz (made up name) gee whiz he makes James Allen look good. What was that shambles on the grid on Sky all about?!
Last edited by billy bleach; 28 Aug 2016 at 11:54. |
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28 Aug 2016, 12:02 (Ref:3668024) | #39 | |||
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Oh I agree about publicity and marketing. This is a marketing dream and just what a car manufacturer in F1 wants, The F1 Word Champion drives our car. You don't even have to be a motorsports fan at all, for the message to get across. Back to the race, it will be interesting to see how tyres hold up, or not. |
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28 Aug 2016, 12:06 (Ref:3668026) | #40 | ||
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That was a messy start. Vettel got turned around trying to squeeze Kimi and Verstappen damaged his nose, with drivers running wide.
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28 Aug 2016, 12:17 (Ref:3668028) | #41 | ||
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Big shunt at the top of Eau Rouge, as Magnusson goes backwards into the tyre wall. There was a VC after the start but this is the first FCY.
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
28 Aug 2016, 12:25 (Ref:3668030) | #42 | ||
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The race has been Red flagged, as the tyre wall and barrier are fixed after Magnusson's crash.
Edit: restart in 10 minutes. Last edited by bjohnsonsmith; 28 Aug 2016 at 12:32. |
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28 Aug 2016, 12:34 (Ref:3668032) | #43 | |
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Verstappen was instinctive but a bit too optimistic in my opinion.
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28 Aug 2016, 12:55 (Ref:3668041) | #44 | ||
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K Mag out for Monza? Jorda in.? .............or not......
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28 Aug 2016, 13:02 (Ref:3668045) | #45 | ||
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Lewis up to 3rd. I don't know why people thought he'd muddle along in the middle of the field. I never underestimate this guy.
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28 Aug 2016, 13:06 (Ref:3668047) | #46 | ||
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Poor Kimi. He seemed to have a good start. Vettle just turned into him. I assume Vettle just lost track of how close Kimi was. Regarding Magnussen's crash. That was scary. Notice how the cockpit head protection bumper popped off mid crash. Richard |
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28 Aug 2016, 13:12 (Ref:3668051) | #47 | ||
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That was a bit hairy, Alonso and Hulkenberg racing down Pit Road. A bit IndyCar.
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28 Aug 2016, 13:18 (Ref:3668054) | #48 | |
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Battles galore, everywhere. No wonder the place is packed.
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28 Aug 2016, 13:48 (Ref:3668060) | #49 | ||
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Congrats to Nico, despite the Yellows and the Red flag, kept it together and an excellent drive from Lewis. That's just what I expected from him.
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
28 Aug 2016, 13:57 (Ref:3668061) | #50 | ||
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Rosberg not very popular here?
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