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Old 12 Feb 2018, 02:22 (Ref:3800608)   #1251
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I can speculate as well as anyone else as to why Halo design was railroaded through. My thoughts...

* This being driven by liability and in particular something to do with Bianchi’s families lawsuit rings true to me. So there was likely an internal rush to pick and push forward a solution. Maybe even before they had evaluated all reasonable options.
* Why Halo over a windscreen solution? It may be ...
1. Pure chance. Halo may have been a more mature option when they pulled the trigger.
2. maybe someone felt that halo would play better in the Bianchi suit. Such as alluding that Halo might have been more successful in a Bianchi style impact. I don’t want to rehash Bianchi’s accident and if anything could have prevented the impact of his helmet against the recovery vehicle or not. But just saying that maybe someone thinks Halo might have worked better than a windscreen or enclosed cockpit.
3. A team or group of teams just felt that a windscreen or canopy would be too disruptive to their current setup. So could Ferrari have instructed Vettel to provide negative feedback to quickly kill off more research?

Note.. I suspect #1 or #3 is true. I hope #2 is not.

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Old 12 Feb 2018, 04:13 (Ref:3800617)   #1252
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I have always suspected the reason to be more inline with option #2. Unfortunately.
The current halo design will be most unlikely to offer much protection from the more likely scenario of a Massa type of small projectile injury.
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Old 12 Feb 2018, 07:26 (Ref:3800630)   #1253
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I have always suspected the reason to be more inline with option #2. Unfortunately.
The current halo design will be most unlikely to offer much protection from the more likely scenario of a Massa type of small projectile injury.
At least they have finally got off their butts and done something after 7 years of inaction during which drivers lost their lives through the FIA's inaction.

If Jules almost survived without any protection to his head, I cannot see how the HALO would not have significantly increased his chances of survival.

Maria de Villota - say no more!

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Old 12 Feb 2018, 07:54 (Ref:3800632)   #1254
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I can speculate as well as anyone else as to why Halo design was railroaded through. My thoughts...

* This being driven by liability and in particular something to do with Bianchi’s families lawsuit rings true to me. So there was likely an internal rush to pick and push forward a solution. Maybe even before they had evaluated all reasonable options.
* Why Halo over a windscreen solution? It may be ...
1. Pure chance. Halo may have been a more mature option when they pulled the trigger.
2. maybe someone felt that halo would play better in the Bianchi suit. Such as alluding that Halo might have been more successful in a Bianchi style impact. I don’t want to rehash Bianchi’s accident and if anything could have prevented the impact of his helmet against the recovery vehicle or not. But just saying that maybe someone thinks Halo might have worked better than a windscreen or enclosed cockpit.
3. A team or group of teams just felt that a windscreen or canopy would be too disruptive to their current setup. So could Ferrari have instructed Vettel to provide negative feedback to quickly kill off more research?

Note.. I suspect #1 or #3 is true. I hope #2 is not.

Richard
I suspect 3, for as soon as Vettel gave his verdict, based on technically less than one lap, it was game over for the Shield.
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Old 12 Feb 2018, 08:24 (Ref:3800643)   #1255
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I suspect 3, for as soon as Vettel gave his verdict, based on technically less than one lap, it was game over for the Shield.
It is a shame that one Vettel lap was so early in the piece.... I suspect that had it been in the wake of the Indy testing a different story might have unfolded.
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Old 12 Feb 2018, 12:23 (Ref:3800689)   #1256
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It's such a shame the FIA were reluctant to properly test the shield, Indycar have shown it does work, but they listened to quickly to Vettel
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Old 13 Feb 2018, 03:02 (Ref:3800843)   #1257
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* This being driven by liability and in particular something to do with Bianchi’s families lawsuit rings true to me. So there was likely an internal rush to pick and push forward a solution. Maybe even before they had evaluated all reasonable options.

* Why Halo over a windscreen solution? It may be ...
2. maybe someone felt that halo would play better in the Bianchi suit. Such as alluding that Halo might have been more successful in a Bianchi style impact. I don’t want to rehash Bianchi’s accident and if anything could have prevented the impact of his helmet against the recovery vehicle or not. But just saying that maybe someone thinks Halo might have worked better than a windscreen or enclosed cockpit.

Richard
I'm not a lawyer, and certainly can't speak to Japanese and European law, but am a club/vintage racer. In the US, before we ever get to turn a wheel on course every racer signs a blanket release binding heirs, assigns, pets, etc. from suing over anything that happens on track. The only way to break the waiver would be in the case of negligence.

My personal feeling is that running a race in a hurricane, putting heavy equipment on course before the field is under control, parking trailers in the pit lane with the liftgate down might be construed as negligence in America. But competent organizers wouldn't do / allow such sh*t to occur.

Racing has always been dangerous, now it's as perilous as being an actuary. The FIA's legal problems are of their own making. Their knee-jerk reaction is fundamentally altering the DNA of the sport. Thank God Todt isn't running MotoGP. Can you imagine what his version of a race bike would look like?

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Old 13 Feb 2018, 03:42 (Ref:3800853)   #1258
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Can you imagine what his version of a race bike would look like?
one word.

stabilisers

great post, paul. only thing is the de villota thing was a bit random in that it wasn’t at a circuit but a straightline test at an airfield, and those happen constantly, day in day out without drivers managing to hit something. it was a set of mistakes from driver and team that resulted in an accident. i’m sure we’ve all been in far more dangerous paddock situations that haven’t resulted in an accident because everyone has done their job except the organisers...

the thing that completely baffles me is that if anything the teams had tacked onto the cars restricted visibility as much as the halo does then it’d be swiftly outlawed. it’s the equivalent of road cars that restrict the peripheral vision with massive pillars and small windows and create blind spots in order to pass crash tests.
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Old 13 Feb 2018, 04:29 (Ref:3800857)   #1259
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Bella,

Thanks for the correction. I'd forgotten that was a straightline test.

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the thing that completely baffles me is that if anything the teams had tacked onto the cars restricted visibility as much as the halo does then it’d be swiftly outlawed. it’s the equivalent of road cars that restrict the peripheral vision with massive pillars and small windows and create blind spots in order to pass crash tests.
I completely agree, but hadn't thought about it from that perspective before. The teams can't do it on safety grounds, but the FIA will mandate it on safety grounds!

The inmates truly are running the asylum.

Paul

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Old 13 Feb 2018, 08:41 (Ref:3800881)   #1260
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I am still struggling with this.

The potential litigation would be about protecting the driver? So why couldn’t they use the screen? Then they’ve covered themselves there. So why chose the halo instead?
In 2013 the FiA said they wanted to introduce a head protection device by the 2017 season. That didn't happen (it was to be the Halo), and the FiA then promised it would definitely happen by 2018. They had to act, 'cause if they didn't and a driver was hurt in the head region during the 2018 season, the FiA would be open to litigation as they had stated a head protection device will be introduced for 2018.

Why the Halo? It was the most developed item of the three concepts put forward. The FiA should have done more research on various concepts, but they didn't want to waste their own money on R&D, and so in 2014 asked if the teams to could come up with their own concept. Mercedes came up with the Halo concept in 2015. Ferrari first tested it in February 2016. Red Bull introduced the Aeroscreen in April 2016. The Aeroscreen was an improvement aesthetically, but created more issues over the Halo. The shield was a last minute jab by the FiA. It wasn't thoroughly researched, and was a rushed concept. And we know what happened at Silverstone 2017. And so... the Halo was it.
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Old 14 Feb 2018, 00:46 (Ref:3801155)   #1261
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IndyCar are planning a street course test, at either season opener St. Petes or Long Beach.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/134359
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Old 14 Feb 2018, 13:58 (Ref:3801290)   #1262
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Thing people are missing is that in the initial simulator tests for Indycar there were big visibility issues that meant a return to the drawing board and new materials etc.

F1 didn't have the time to do that. They barely had time to get the much more mature Halo technology in on the timescale they had committed to. If they had postponed again and there was a serious accident this season they would have been torn apart by the media and fans yet alone the legal issues of having a system but not using it.

Besides they've said on several occasions that the Halo is not the only solution for the future so there's no reason why they might not adopt a shield type device in seasons to come.

All this talk from people on social media that they are done watching F1 because of the halo is, frankly, laughable.
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Old 14 Feb 2018, 14:56 (Ref:3801295)   #1263
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A good point, obviously the FIA wanted something in for 2018, but it seemed the majority of teams favoured the shield, so therein lies the controversy. At least Indycar are giving it a proper test
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Old 14 Feb 2018, 15:17 (Ref:3801298)   #1264
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Thing people are missing is that in the initial simulator tests for Indycar there were big visibility issues that meant a return to the drawing board and new materials etc.

F1 didn't have the time to do that. They barely had time to get the much more mature Halo technology in on the timescale they had committed to. If they had postponed again and there was a serious accident this season they would have been torn apart by the media and fans yet alone the legal issues of having a system but not using it.

Besides they've said on several occasions that the Halo is not the only solution for the future so there's no reason why they might not adopt a shield type device in seasons to come.

All this talk from people on social media that they are done watching F1 because of the halo is, frankly, laughable.
only counterpoint to that would be that f1 has a lot more chassis manufacturers available for simulation and material suggestions. the fact that however many teams and a massive organisation such as the fia couldn’t get their act together and properly revisit things reflects quite badly on all involved.
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Old 14 Feb 2018, 15:58 (Ref:3801299)   #1265
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only counterpoint to that would be that f1 has a lot more chassis manufacturers available for simulation and material suggestions. the fact that however many teams and a massive organisation such as the fia couldn’t get their act together and properly revisit things reflects quite badly on all involved.
I agree. IMHO there was plenty of time to fully evaluate multiple solutions.

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Old 14 Feb 2018, 17:11 (Ref:3801311)   #1266
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Thing people are missing is that in the initial simulator tests for Indycar there were big visibility issues that meant a return to the drawing board and new materials etc.

F1 didn't have the time to do that. They barely had time to get the much more mature Halo technology in on the timescale they had committed to. If they had postponed again and there was a serious accident this season they would have been torn apart by the media and fans yet alone the legal issues of having a system but not using it.

Besides they've said on several occasions that the Halo is not the only solution for the future so there's no reason why they might not adopt a shield type device in seasons to come.

All this talk from people on social media that they are done watching F1 because of the halo is, frankly, laughable.
F1 said in 2013 that they were planning on introducing head protection. If they couldn't find time to run some simulator tests in 5 years then that points to even bigger political issues.

F1 had the time, money and resources to do this quite easily. They clearly didn't want to.
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Old 14 Feb 2018, 17:19 (Ref:3801313)   #1267
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All this talk from people on social media that they are done watching F1 because of the halo is, frankly, laughable.
The straw that broke the camel's back.
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Old 14 Feb 2018, 21:29 (Ref:3801377)   #1268
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Halo being considered for NZ TRS - to keep the series FIA relevant.

Dixon says aeroshield ok for Indy car after initial test.

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Old 21 Feb 2018, 07:48 (Ref:3802836)   #1269
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2018 HALO Mandate

I just saw a few launch photos & a video of various 2018 F1 cars. I immediately noticed halos have been incorporated into the cars.

I viewed the 2018 rule [email]changes at: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/technical/2018/1/what-are-the-new-f1-technical-rules-for-2018-.html

I was curious as to whether or not these devices obstruct the drivers vision due to their design.

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Old 21 Feb 2018, 09:22 (Ref:3802844)   #1270
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Riccardo said in his Silverstone filming run in the new car, that it didn't.
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Old 21 Feb 2018, 09:42 (Ref:3802847)   #1271
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There is a thread with some 1300 posts regarding the halo and every conceivable aspects of the various concepts of drivers head protection, from visor to halo. Visibility is one of the main discussion points.
Thread is here: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129305
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Old 21 Feb 2018, 09:47 (Ref:3802849)   #1272
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You mention that Ricciardo said it does not obstruct vision, so you have answered your own question.
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Old 21 Feb 2018, 11:14 (Ref:3802878)   #1273
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I read the other day that Bottas pumped a load of laps in on the sim which also has the halo fitted. He said there was no issues involving visibility in fact after a number of laps he forgot about it.
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Old 21 Feb 2018, 12:25 (Ref:3802891)   #1274
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Martin Brundle: "Does it come with a hacksaw to cut off the Halo? You need to feel a little scared when you’re driving, and watching, F1. It’s a foundation of the DNA of the sport."


Couldn't agree more! Halo has to be the dumbest idea the FiA have come up with ever!
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Old 21 Feb 2018, 12:59 (Ref:3802896)   #1275
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There is a thread with some 1300 posts regarding the halo and every conceivable aspects of the various concepts of drivers head protection, from visor to halo. Visibility is one of the main discussion points.
Thread is here: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129305
See above ^^^^^^^^

Admins... potential thread merger?

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