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Old 14 Nov 2003, 02:54 (Ref:782759)   #1
djb
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djb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
creative rule bendings

First of all, hello all, its been a long time since I've been properly in here, and on a historic note, as I've just turned 40, I'll be expecting some elderly respect....not as much as Mallet etc, but some still the same.

now, to the topic. Today I read an article with an interview with Dan Gurney and he was talking of the GT40 and Lemans in 66 or 67. He mentioned a cute "Nascar" trick (his words) that the team used to have the ride height of the car high enough for inspection, but then to go down for the race. In the cockpit, there was a little wire that the driver, when out on the track, would pull and it would then pull out these "disposable" washers in the suspension that would lower the car down a bit. Being there of course for the tech inspection, the car could pass over the thingee they used to check ride height, but then after, a little pull on the wire and presto, lower.

Neat idea, and I'm sure you lot have many other stories from the past of creative thinking.......

on to you
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Old 14 Nov 2003, 03:30 (Ref:782789)   #2
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Nothing like a good cheat story - what is scandal at the time is an amusing anecdote after the passing of time.

I like the nascar one where the tech inspectors were pulling the car apart searching for an alleged illegal fuel tank, but couldn't find it and got into an argument with the owner, who in exasperation got into his car and drove it off back to his pit.... leaving his fuel tank behind (opps!).
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Old 14 Nov 2003, 15:32 (Ref:783333)   #3
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Didnt a similar thing happen in F1 in 1980ish after ground effects were banned?

The drivers used a knob in the cockpit to raise the ride height as it entered the pits and then lowered it when it went out, thus giving ground effects!
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Old 14 Nov 2003, 15:43 (Ref:783342)   #4
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One of the best was in Nascar in the sixties when one of the manufacturers produced a car that went much faster than their old car - or anyone else's - no-one could figure out why till they measured it and it was a perfect 7/8 scale replica (except for the engine)- so it had about 75 % of the frontal area ! Ever since then there has been a rule about scrutineering including a full size official template that the car has to fit
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Old 14 Nov 2003, 16:11 (Ref:783375)   #5
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I think I read in Graham Hills autobiography about the time Team Lotus was struggling to finish a second car off for scrutineering. So after the first car was wheeled back, they simply peeled the numbers off and re-presented it with the second cars numbers and no-one new any difference.

Also there was the time when a very successful former driver was running his own team and a young pay driver was struggling to qualify for his race (the old F2 I think). As time was running out during the final session, said young driver returned to the paddock in his car parked up next to the transporter, got out and disappeared into the wagon (fully kitted out still in overalls & helmet) for a couple of minutes, only to return a few minutes later, get into the car and return to the circuit and produce a couple of blistering laps which put him halfway up the grid. said driver then returned again directly to the paddock and back into the transporter. On his emergence no-one commented that he seemed to lose a few inches in height and gain a few pounds in weight and vice versa everytime he went in and out of the vehicle!
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Old 14 Nov 2003, 16:52 (Ref:783420)   #6
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I heard somewhere along the lines that allegedly, an early 80's touring car prep firm put nitrous in the roll cage to make it lighter and quicker. Not sure of the validity but amusing nonetheless!

Another, perhaps less creative case was that allegedly, an individual's Sierra went very fast in the latter part of that decade, until that is, they discovered it was running on some kind of 'jungle juice' fuel! Marvellous!!
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Old 14 Nov 2003, 17:11 (Ref:783435)   #7
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In the early 80's when TWR ran the xjs Jags they used to have an air hand pump which on the slowing down lap the driver would pump up the air bag which was in the fuel tank hence reducing the capacity back down to the homilgated literage !!! .

All alegedely of course .
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Old 14 Nov 2003, 17:15 (Ref:783437)   #8
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Also in the late 80's there was a Sierra team that used to run underweight in Qual but at the end of the session would fit a set of wheels that were very heavy for post qual scruteneering.
Whoever thought of that must have been a real track star !!!!
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Old 15 Nov 2003, 08:52 (Ref:784107)   #9
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Dani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally posted by josvandeperre
One of the best was in Nascar in the sixties when one of the manufacturers produced a car that went much faster than their old car - or anyone else's - no-one could figure out why till they measured it and it was a perfect 7/8 scale replica (except for the engine)- so it had about 75 % of the frontal area ! Ever since then there has been a rule about scrutineering including a full size official template that the car has to fit
ha ha .. lol .. this one is really good ...
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Old 15 Nov 2003, 12:23 (Ref:784219)   #10
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Both GTV27s and josvandeperre's stories are Smokey Yunick
stories....true stories..
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Old 15 Nov 2003, 12:30 (Ref:784222)   #11
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What about the good old Vauxhall championships!!!!
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Old 15 Nov 2003, 14:16 (Ref:784294)   #12
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djb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Paul, with the F1 story, although I dont recall all the details of how the ride height was changed, I do remember that the whole thing was quite a farce as everyone knew it was going on, with cars pulling into the pits and very clearly popping up. I think it was in the wording of the tech rules in that the car had to be at set height during tech inspection or something like that, and so that legally for the inspection they were, afterwards it was free game.

This summer I took photos and spoke with the technicians at the tech inspection site of the ALMS race in Trois Rivieres. Interesting to see how the lessons of the past are learned. On track tires and wheels must be on the car, pre and post race inspections are done, and as in F1 and Cart, I believe random inspections can be thrown in as well. They also checked the fuel for a "target" chemical signaturre that is only in the officially allotted fuel, to disallow any other fuel substitution. I'm sure specific frame number checks are de rigeur now as well, going from the Lotus story.

Thats part of the fun of these stories, trying to figure out which ones are myth, exaggeration or just plain baloney. The 7/8 size car story is a good one though.

Wasn't there a F1 story from the 70's about lead beads being put in the fuel nozzle to get a post race weight up to minimum? with someone noticing a funny sound or something afterwards.
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Old 15 Nov 2003, 14:43 (Ref:784322)   #13
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What about the famous "bent engine" episode in F3. It's very complicated, but basically, a famous engine builder found a way to beat the F3 vacuum test. The engine was used by the champion at the end of the season to win a race, but was found to run happily with the air inlet completely blocked. It was installed in the second car for the next race, and the team protested its own engine! Despite the engine being sealed by scrutineers, the perpetrators were able to reverse the illegality and actually mounted a successful appeal.
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Old 15 Nov 2003, 14:46 (Ref:784324)   #14
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What about the good old Vauxhall championships!!!!
Don't know about Vauxhalls, but going back many years to the old Ford Escort Sport Championship, I believe one of the front running teams got round the ride height rule in a "clever" manner.

I think the ride height was checked with a measurement from the floor to the bottom of the door opening, and it was only part of the way though the season someone discoverd that the doors on a couple of cars were actually two inches or so smaller than the standard production model.
I think the cars had been lowered and the door sills built up to make the difference, hence the smaller doors
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Old 17 Nov 2003, 02:49 (Ref:785373)   #15
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Back in the group A days, it is alleged that a particular Cosworth Sierra once jumped significantly in the timesheets after a one lap banzai effort. Apparently this was particularly pleasing to the sponsors, who happened to be enjoying corporate hospitality that day.

The scrutineers, being particularly cynical, decided to go over the car with the fine tooth comb. Nothing was found until somebody noticed that the fire extinguisher was empty. Immediately thoughts of weight saving were considered but discarded - that alone couldn't account for the sudden extra speed. It was at that point that somebody noticed the fire ext nozzle in front of the intercooler.... or so goes the urban myth.
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Old 17 Nov 2003, 04:00 (Ref:785396)   #16
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djb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I wonder if ever one day the truth will come to light of software whatsits ie Bennaton or Ferrari or whoever from the last 10 years or so. Of course, even the mentioned mechanical fiddlings are often heresay or rumour, but with black boxes etc, I doubt it will ever be any more clear than mud than with the older "innovations"--just a thought.
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Old 17 Nov 2003, 12:21 (Ref:785748)   #17
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Hobson should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHobson should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Back in the days of the Spa 24hrs for saloons in the eighties, there was a team of privateers. They were on a tight budget and couldn't really afford to run their cars with strengthened bits for reliability. They had drivesahfts go every 6 or so hours!

What they did was genius. The rules stated that not part on the car could be replaced (for whatever reason other than safety). When the 6th hour rolled around, the mechanics made a big fuss of dismanting the rear suspsnsion to clean it up.
Part of this involved taking off the very hot driveshaft and placing it in a bucket of soapy water to both clean it and stop the mechanic from burning himself.

Of course, there was a brand new driveshaft sitting under the bubbles............

Last edited by Hobson; 17 Nov 2003 at 12:22.
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Old 17 Nov 2003, 12:29 (Ref:785755)   #18
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Tyrrell's water ballast, or water cooled brakes, or whatever it was, was certainly "creative" and I for one think they should have got away with it!
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Old 17 Nov 2003, 13:34 (Ref:785887)   #19
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looking at a few cars this year which run to FiA apendix K I'd be suprised if any of the car was legal apart from the Number plate . . . . .allegedly
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Old 17 Nov 2003, 14:10 (Ref:785955)   #20
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simon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
wasnt there a 7/8 size BMW in the touring car championships in 80's? Cant recall who drove it though......!
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Old 17 Nov 2003, 22:46 (Ref:786597)   #21
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djb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I like the driveshaft one very much, thats great!

and the water slash brakes bit, didn't that involve something in the rules about being able to top up fluids before inspection?

another NASCAR one I heard once (good lord, I'm starting to sound like an oval only fan) told in an interview by a driver telling of another driver being caught in the night fiddling with the front of his car, and someone finally figuring out that he was moving the headlight assembly forward so as to get a bit better frontal air penetration. I imagine the cars had to conform to stock dimensions, including how far set back the headlights were, and he was scooting them all forward to reduce the airdam effect of them set back. I don't do justice to the telling of the story, but in part, the guy being caught crouching beside his car with a screwdriver or whatever in his hand made the story work.
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Old 18 Nov 2003, 00:50 (Ref:786684)   #22
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I heard a story of an F3 at Donington which ran with an illegal air restrictor. On the slowing down lap, the car 'broke down' exiting McLaens and pulled off to the inside where there was, at that time, a forest and no marshals within sight. The mechanics popped out of the woods, changed the airbox for a legal one and then disappeared back into the trees. The driver then 'managed' to get it restarted and drove back to the pits for the mandatory eligability checks.
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Old 18 Nov 2003, 13:27 (Ref:787097)   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by jminsh
Also in the late 80's there was a Sierra team that used to run underweight in Qual but at the end of the session would fit a set of wheels that were very heavy for post qual scruteneering.
Whoever thought of that must have been a real track star !!!!
I believe at least one F1 team used the same trick at one point with heavily-ballasted bodywork sections....
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Old 18 Nov 2003, 15:08 (Ref:787192)   #24
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20 years ago we ran a Sports 2000 car with a standard tank, in longer races. To avoid the cost of a refuelling rig we fitted an auxilliary tank in the sidepod with an electric fuel pump to transfer the fuel. It was a bit heavy to start with and the 'rent a driver' never did understand why it was necessary to switch on the pump half way through his stint!
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Old 18 Nov 2003, 15:36 (Ref:787214)   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by simon drabble
wasnt there a 7/8 size BMW in the touring car championships in 80's? Cant recall who drove it though......!
Hadn't heard that, but did hear of a successful Rover SD1 that was sold to Australia. All was well until the screen was damaged. The Auto Windscreen guy arrived with a replacement but found that it was much bigger!
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