[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[TF110]

lol, it's like a case of "I had it first" I think one of the other will change it up next year. They're similar but I can tell them apart. I guess the casual fan won't though. Maybe next year with the private cars we'll see more variety.

[Spyderman]

So...some thoughts and impressions after analyzing the data and reading the PR's:

1. Toyota with this setup on this track are substantially faster than Porsche over one lap.
2. If Porsche race at Silversone with their LDF package, they will get killed.
3. After reading what Porsche were up to during the Prologue, I analyzed the long stints (eliminating laps over 2 min to eliminate the outliers) and Porsche has a slight edge. This explains their upbeat mood after the Prologue (I suppose)
4. Porsche lost most of their time in sector 1 and some of their time in sector 2. They gained back some of the lost time in sector 3.
5. It is my impression reading between the lines (PR BS), that Andre Lotterer is not enamored with the driving style required to get a good lap in the 919.

[TF110]

I think that they have time in hand. When Toyota set the 1:30's, they did 3 timed laps. But that session Porsche didn't do any qualifying simulations. So they might be able to get down to those times too if the track was better. I don't believe they didn't learn anything about going faster throughout the day, they just did their longer runs.

The only thing that may cause concern for Porsche is Toyota had a brand new car because most of their private testing was with the high downforce package. Kazuki Nakajima said it's around 80-90%. So if that's where they're at, considering that they have a good amount of potential left, hopefully Porsche has just as much to learn.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by roderick

I'm sorry but surely Toyota isn't the problem here...Porsche knew Toyota's livery since last year! (plus they saw it back in Aragon in Feb)

Porsche unveiled their 911 in the same scheme and said it was the new factory scheme...raced it in January as well.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Matt

Porsche unveiled their 911 in the same scheme and said it was the new factory scheme...raced it in January as well.

And Toyota has had their livery on their cars for a few years now, especially at the Nurburgring. On top of that they stated in 2015 that the lmp1 would be in the color scheme of the Gazoo Racing. Not like it matters.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by TF110

I think that they have time in hand. When Toyota set the 1:30's, they did 3 timed laps. But that session Porsche didn't do any qualifying simulations. So they might be able to get down to those times too if the track was better. I don't believe they didn't learn anything about going faster throughout the day, they just did their longer runs.

The only thing that may cause concern for Porsche is Toyota had a brand new car because most of their private testing was with the high downforce package. Kazuki Nakajima said it's around 80-90%. So if that's where they're at, considering that they have a good amount of potential left, hopefully Porsche has just as much to learn.

I don't think they can do much in a week. I think they are aware that Silverstone is going to be an uphill battle. I suspect their strategy is to concentrate on Le Mans and then introduce the LDF package for the races after LM. If that is what they are doing, then they are in effect giving up on Silverstone and focusing on improving from Spa onward.
Unless, of course, they go to Silverstone with a LDF package. Then things may be a little different.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I don't think they can do much in a week. I think they are aware that Silverstone is going to be an uphill battle. I suspect their strategy is to concentrate on Le Mans and then introduce the LDF package for the races after LM. If that is what they are doing, then they are in effect giving up on Silverstone and focusing on improving from Spa onward.

I think that's the case as well. I wasn't comparing the times for a Silverstone matchup, but like for like, their LM kits. We know Toyota will be running the high downforce package at the first two races and one LM package at Spa. I think Porsche will have a good chance at Spa. I don't know about Silverstone, but they put up a good fight with the lower downforce package in previous seasons.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Unless, of course, they go to Silverstone with a LDF package. Then things may be a little different.

Apologies, I meant HDF package

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I don't think they can do much in a week. I think they are aware that Silverstone is going to be an uphill battle. I suspect their strategy is to concentrate on Le Mans and then introduce the HDF package for the races after LM. If that is what they are doing, then they are in effect giving up on Silverstone and focusing on improving from Spa onward.
Unless, of course, they go to Silverstone with a HDF package. Then things may be a little different.

Corrected.

[Akrapovic]

I like how the respective fanboys are always so bloody negative about their own teams. Porsche could be 10 seconds a lap faster and this thread would still be full of "Well I don't think they'll do very well at Spa in fact they'll be lucky if they out qualify the GT cars".

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I like how the respective fanboys are always so bloody negative about their own teams. Porsche could be 10 seconds a lap faster and this thread would still be full of "Well I don't think they'll do very well at Spa in fact they'll be lucky if they out qualify the GT cars".

Spyderman is just a nervous fan. I read his preseason posts and think... cheer up buddy! I have confidence in Porsche. Then again it's mostly blind faith as I really haven't followed testing that closely.

Richard

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I like how the respective fanboys are always so bloody negative about their own teams. Porsche could be 10 seconds a lap faster and this thread would still be full of "Well I don't think they'll do very well at Spa in fact they'll be lucky if they out qualify the GT cars".

Very droll indeed, but imprecise.

[TF110]

I think this Autosport article shows Porsche's concerns on the bodykit dilemma. Jani says that it could be a fight for 3rd or 4th behind Toyota at least at Silverstone. I think he's giving it away that Porsche are not going to be using their high downforce kit.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by TF110

I think this Autosport article shows Porsche's concerns on the bodykit dilemma. Jani says that it could be a fight for 3rd or 4th behind Toyota at least at Silverstone. I think he's giving it away that Porsche are not going to be using their high downforce kit.

Just as I feared.

[Hiro]

I think Porsche 919 LDF spec is potentially capable of generating more downforce than TS050 LDF spec as we saw last year. Their LDF spec is suitable for Spa which TS050 LDF may not, and a possible gap between 919 (LDF) and TS050 (HDF) at Silverstone may not be that big, but I dont know.

[TF110]

With only two aero packages, I think Toyota will be right there with Porsche in either aero format. I'm really interested in the engine development these two have done. What is the newness of the Porsche v4? If only we could get information on that.

[GasperG]

It would be interesting if FIA disclosed some information about BSFC numbers. We were a little over 40% per Toyota statements in 2014, but we don't know where Porsche was and we don't know how much they improved through the years.

Fuel flow wen't from 88 to 80 kg/h (10% change) and lap times are not too far away, but it's hard to judge what improved the track speed, engine is just a part of the puzzle.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Hiro

I think Porsche 919 LDF spec is potentially capable of generating more downforce than TS050 LDF spec as we saw last year. Their LDF spec is suitable for Spa which TS050 LDF may not, and a possible gap between 919 (LDF) and TS050 (HDF) at Silverstone may not be that big, but I dont know.

This is not what we saw at the prologue. Porsche lost time in sectors 1 & 2 and gained in sector 3. As sectors 1 & 2 had chicanes and tight(er) corners, one can deduce that Porsche had a harder time getting around them.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

This is not what we saw at the prologue. Porsche lost time in sectors 1 & 2 and gained in sector 3. As sectors 1 & 2 had chicanes and tight(er) corners, one can deduce that Porsche had a harder time getting around them.

You may be right. Unlike the last year, characteristics of this year's 919 look like last year's TS050 LM spec.

[chernaudi]

And this year, the ACO cut the number of sets of tires available for rounds outside of LM from 6.5-8.5 sets to 4.5. And we know that Porsche in the past have struggled with tire wear at the sprint races where they ran their low downforce aero.

And at Silverstone in '15, the only reasons that Porsche were close to Audi was because of some strategy calls that Audi made early in the race, Porsche's straightline speed, and a questionable penalty call on the leading Audi late.

[wolfhound]

Porsche are to run Le Mans bodywork at Silverstone.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128897

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Porsche are to run Le Mans bodywork at Silverstone.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128897

best move for porsche. Usually toyota HD kits are basically "loaded" low drag bodywork, from nurburing and on for sure porsche will get the best HD package

[GasperG]

And why is this a good move?

May someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Porsche must have fully finished and homolgated LD package, that they will use at LeMans, just too run it in Silverstone, where it's not best suited for. Am I missing something? Did Toyota homologate both packages already or are they waiting for Spa, where their third car will run LeMans spec?

[500]

Originally Posted by GasperG

And why is this a good move?

May someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Porsche must have fully finished and homolgated LD package, that they will use at LeMans, just too run it in Silverstone, where it's not best suited for. Am I missing something? Did Toyota homologate both packages already or are they waiting for Spa, where their third car will run LeMans spec?

Unless I mis-understand the homologation rules, this would mean that Porsche can take until the Nurburgring (months away) to further develop their HDF package. So, I think this aspect is the larger advantage compared to having an extra race to gain experience running the LDF package?

If significant improvement could still be found in the HDF package between now and then, it could prove to be worth trading away a better result at Silverstone (big if, I really don't know...)

[kvenom]

By the same token, couldn't Toyota theoretically keep developing their LDF till Le Mans while Porsche can't?