Bemani Toyota Supra

[terryobeirne]

a couple of years ago i corresponded with a UK owner of a (reputedly) bermani Supra , supposedly a factory car raced 1989-93. I would like to track him down as his email has "died"
does anyone know of this car or any other GpA period Supras still exist??.
I was talking with John Smith in Sydney today about his GpA Supra which he still takes out occassionally. Luckily i had a spare magnesium bellhousing for him after his clutch let go at the last historic meeting.

[KA]

There was a mention in a Group A Toyota thread a while back of one of the Bemani cars being raced in the Swiss touring car series in 1993/4, fitted with a 2-litre engine. A guy named Rudiger Naf also apparently ran one in the Divinol Tourenwagen Cup in Germany around 1999- those details posted in the thread are about the limit of my knowledge...

A red Supra, almost certainly one of the ex-MIL cars, ran in Thundersaloon races in the early 90s in the UK. I don't remember who ran it, but vaguely recall it was re-engined with an RS500 unit. I know I've got pics somewhere of the car at Brands, probably taken around 1992/3-ish, as I saw them recently while looking for something else. I'll dig them out, scan one and see it it sparks any memories...

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by terryobeirne

a couple of years ago i corresponded with a UK owner of a (reputedly) bermani Supra , supposedly a factory car raced 1989-93. I would like to track him down as his email has "died"
does anyone know of this car or any other GpA period Supras still exist??.
I was talking with John Smith in Sydney today about his GpA Supra which he still takes out occassionally. Luckily i had a spare magnesium bellhousing for him after his clutch let go at the last historic meeting.

Have you contacted TRD...for instance, the Bates group in Canberra? they may have hooks into the factory that could provide parts

[Al Weyman]

I was racing against a very nice white one at Mallory the other week in the Pre-93 Touring Cars, dunno if it has any history but it looked a pucker job. He is out again with me at Oulton on the 21st June I will see if I can find out anything.

I also remember racing against both a white and a red one back in the 90's the white one may be the car I mentioned earlier in Modified Production Saloons as I am sure I asked the owner this before and one if not both were definitely ex-works cars. I think it may have been entered by Scot ex-BTCC privateer Hamish Irvine but I may have my lines crossed as it was some time ago. I will ask the current owner of the white car and post back or get him to.

[terryobeirne]

thanks folks, any leads greatly appreciated. I have a stash of real GpA race spares , so want to find out if any remain, apart for the one car still running here.
I speak with Bates motorsport occassionally as we both look after a lot of Toyota race cars. They dont seem to have any interest in history, totally preoccuopied with current rally issues.
I've also contacted TRD and TOMS without any luck--same story really

[Al Weyman]

I will sound out the owner of the one I am racing against next Saturday 21st June at the meeting and see if he has any info as he seems knowledgable when I last spoke with him, lovely car incidently probably my favourite car on the grid and a lot bigger in real life than it looks in pictures I will also grab some pickies and post them.

[terryobeirne]

thanks for that. I have done a Google search on the driver/series names and got nowhere. there are lots of references to Divinol cup, but seems to be much later. what historical info I did find, has nothing relating to Supras in early 90's.

[terryobeirne]

I have coresponded with Hugh Marshall who drove one of the Thundersaloon Supras. he says both of them were built by Specfab, so neither may be ex works cars. The other (Cosworth powered) car was driven by Chris Hodgetts. The shell of one of them may survive.
anyone else have any more info yet??

[KA]

That suggests they were definitely the ex-MIL/Toyota GB Supras, as Specfab were involved with these- they apparently did quite a few BTCC projects, including the CHMS Corollas

http://www.specfab.co.uk/history.htm

[terryobeirne]

Specfab have confirmed they built 2 cars and 1 survives. it does not look like we are any closer to the bermani ex works cars.
who/what was M.I.L.????

[KA]

Originally Posted by terryobeirne

Specfab have confirmed they built 2 cars and 1 survives. it does not look like we are any closer to the bermani ex works cars.
who/what was M.I.L.????

MIL Motorsport ran the BTCC Supra programme- I don't know how much you know about the BTCC Supra Turbo project, I seem to recall it being discussed in another thread a while back, but as a quick recap (Apologies if you already know this bit)

2 car team, (possibly with plans for a third?), backed by Shell and Toyota GB. Drivers were initially Chris Hodgetts and Vic Lee (Lee's car had additional backing from Mulcahy & Hirst- think they were a construction company).

Hodgetts jumped ship mid to late season and returned to his former team Brooklyn Motorsport with an RS500, and was replaced by Mark Hales and Ian Flux. A Corolla also appeared occasionally for John Lllewellyn.

Curiously, one of the Supras also had an outing as a rally car for Toyota GB-backed driver Graham Middleton on the Manx International, around Aug/Sept '88, replacing his regular Corolla

I won't swear to this but I think MIL was either a new outfit, or a restructuring and renaming of an existing one- I don't recall them in the BTCC either before or after 1988, but I'd have to wade through some 1988 Autosports to be sure.

The other name I recall being associated with the project is regular Hodgetts team-mate/co-driver Alex Moss- the MIL Supra was on the entry list for the Donington ETCC round in 88 for Moss and South African ex-F2 and BTCC driver Rad Dougall, but didn't show up
http://www.racingsportscars.com/cove...988-04-17e.jpg
...and Moss shared the MIL Corolla with Llewellyn at the TT.

[terryobeirne]

OK,,, thanks. thats a bit clearer, but still no closer to finding the works cars. I have reason to beleive 7 were built. I have the remnants of 1 that was crushed here to avoid duties. it was the ex Spa 1988 car and was in very poor condition.

[Al Weyman]

The Toyota at Oulton I raced against yesterday (we had a great battle by the way but he pipped me in the end when I made a couple of errors) was not one of the works cars but a modified ex road car LHD imported from the US, went well though!

[KA]

Originally Posted by terryobeirne

OK,,, thanks. thats a bit clearer, but still no closer to finding the works cars. I have reason to beleive 7 were built. I have the remnants of 1 that was crushed here to avoid duties. it was the ex Spa 1988 car and was in very poor condition.

Now thats interesting- I've seen a reference to 7 works cars in the last few days on the web but can't recall where- the site had pics of the John Smith car as I recall...

By works cars, presumably we're talking about cars built by TOM'S in Japan, rather than cars built outside Japan- Did any of the European cars (think there were something like 6 active in Europe during 1988, 2 from each of
MIL in the BTCC, Bemani in the DTM and ETCC and RAS Sport at Spa) come from TOM'S? I dont think we saw a TOM'S entered works Supra until Spa 1989
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-23-036.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-23-037.jpg


Nice collection of Supra pics, including TOM'S, SARD, RAS Sport, Bemani and Australian cars: http://www.supra-garage.de/rennsport.htm

[terryobeirne]

Hewland told me they made 9 special gearboxes to order from Toyota. 7 for cars being built plus 2 complete for spares. These are a magnesium cased, close ratio dog box. I have one of these. When I was speaking with John Smith at some stage, he mentioned 7 cars in total.
I beleive all the works cars were made in japan. I dont have confirmation if it was TOMS or TRD, but I suspect TOMS.
I've written to Bemani & TOMS, so I guess, I'll keep hunting

[KA]

Originally Posted by terryobeirne

I have coresponded with Hugh Marshall who drove one of the Thundersaloon Supras. he says both of them were built by Specfab, so neither may be ex works cars. The other (Cosworth powered) car was driven by Chris Hodgetts. The shell of one of them may survive.
anyone else have any more info yet??

It's not a very good pic, but this is presumably one of the ex-MIL/Toyota GB Supras, racing in Thundersaloons at Brands in the early 90's- I don't seem to have the programme for this meeting, so can't confirm the date, which car or who's driving...

...and just for good measure, one of the Bemani cars at the 1988 TT

[KA]

Originally Posted by terryobeirne

Hewland told me they made 9 special gearboxes to order from Toyota. 7 for cars being built plus 2 complete for spares. These are a magnesium cased, close ratio dog box. I have one of these. When I was speaking with John Smith at some stage, he mentioned 7 cars in total.
I beleive all the works cars were made in japan. I dont have confirmation if it was TOMS or TRD, but I suspect TOMS.
I've written to Bemani & TOMS, so I guess, I'll keep hunting

To me that strongly suggests that those 7 cars are the works cars raced in Japan in Minolta, Fujitsu Ten and Biyo colours by TOM'S, and that any cars raced in Europe (aside from TOM'S appearances at Spa) are a totally separate issue.

I'm assuming from what you've posted that the John Smith car in Australia came from Japan. Was this a Team Toyota Australia effort? It would be useful to know some history, as my knowledge of the Aussie Group A scene is very patchy, particularly for the later years.

Didn't Garry Willmington have a Supra as well- was this an independent self-built job like his XJS, or an ex-Japan car?

I don't know much about the spec of any of the European cars, but can't help suspecting that TRD and TOM'S may not have had much- if any- input on these- Certainly, none of them were ever very successful, the RAS and MIL cars were both off-the-pace and unreliable, while Bemani went the uncompetitive but more reliable non-turbo route and ran in midfield

[terryobeirne]

Yes, the John Smith car was built by TOMS Japan . I believe the Minolta/Fuxitsu sponsored cars were part of the same "family" of 7 cars, 1 of which was crushed here to avoid duties.
I understood from my brief correspondence with hewland, that the special gearboxes were built for Toyota Japan and their GpA racers , so I assume these are the cars built by TOMS. The 2 TOMS cars here, had these special boxes.

As far as I know, at that time, TOMS GB was concentrating on Formula cars and the BTCC front drive corolla (which I own), and they dont seem to have had much, if any, role in the Supras. Whilst TOMS GB may have been a bit of staging post for other european events, from what little I know, it never got anywhere near the depth of TOMS Japan.

I dont have any definite proof yet, but I'm sure the Bemani cars were ex TOMS. I have not yet had a reply from bermani. I have some contacts in Germany chasing leads at that end, so maybe something will eventually surface.

Toyota team Australia was disbanded when GpA finished in 1993 and the parts/cars scattered. John Smith, their lead driver, managed to hang onto the Supra and a pile of parts for this and his AE92 corolla. His AE92 corolla was sold many years ago and still competes in historic events.

The Gary Wilmington Supra that raced here was definitely not an ex-TOMS car. I have tried to trace the car , but the leads have gone cold. Whislt there is some anecdotal evidence it got converted back to a road car, it more likely was exported around 1999 when it appears it's then owner "did a runner" from creditors.

These were all expensively and professionally built cars, and given there was no new model to transfer parts to, I'll be surprised if they were all scrapped.
The search continues!!

[KA]

Originally Posted by terryobeirne

Yes, the John Smith car was built by TOMS Japan . I believe the Minolta/Fuxitsu sponsored cars were part of the same "family" of 7 cars, 1 of which was crushed here to avoid duties.
I understood from my brief correspondence with hewland, that the special gearboxes were built for Toyota Japan and their GpA racers , so I assume these are the cars built by TOMS. The 2 TOMS cars here, had these special boxes.

Thanks- I had a look on Google last night and turned up some pics of the Smith/TTA car and the Willmington car

Originally Posted by terryobeirne

As far as I know, at that time, TOMS GB was concentrating on Formula cars and the BTCC front drive corolla (which I own), and they dont seem to have had much, if any, role in the Supras. Whilst TOMS GB may have been a bit of staging post for other european events, from what little I know, it never got anywhere near the depth of TOMS Japan.

It always puzzled me that with TOM'S GB already active, Toyota went the route of backing a separate team in the form of MIL for the BTCC Supra project- although they'd run separate projects with two teams in '87 when they set up the TOM'S GB fwd Corolla programme alongside the existing CHMS outfit...

I'd have thought it would have made more sense to farm the fwd Corolla out to another team and set up the Supra programm through TOM'S GB, sourcing full factory cars from Japan rather than set up a new operation to develop the car locally.

I guess with TOM'S GB already committed in F3, (and sportscars on the horizon- Toyota ran a full Group C season for the firsttime in '89, and TOM'S GB would be heavily involved in this as I recall) maybe there were capacity or 'political' issues.

I wonder if it was a case of Toyota GB being approached to back a BTCC Supra project by MIL, rather than Toyota instigating the programme and cotracting MIL & Specfab to build and run the cars....

Originally Posted by terryobeirne

I dont have any definite proof yet, but I'm sure the Bemani cars were ex TOMS. I have not yet had a reply from bermani. I have some contacts in Germany chasing leads at that end, so maybe something will eventually surface.

Toyota team Australia was disbanded when GpA finished in 1993 and the parts/cars scattered. John Smith, their lead driver, managed to hang onto the Supra and a pile of parts for this and his AE92 corolla. His AE92 corolla was sold many years ago and still competes in historic events.

The Gary Wilmington Supra that raced here was definitely not an ex-TOMS car. I have tried to trace the car , but the leads have gone cold. Whislt there is some anecdotal evidence it got converted back to a road car, it more likely was exported around 1999 when it appears it's then owner "did a runner" from creditors.

These were all expensively and professionally built cars, and given there was no new model to transfer parts to, I'll be surprised if they were all scrapped.
The search continues!!

That's interesting.... I'd originally guessed the Bemani cars were built in-house, given that they went the n/a 3-litre route. They were backed by Toyota Switzerland as I recall, so maybe that helped them to secure ex-TOM'S cars or shells...?

Wonder where the Belgian RAS cars fit into the story....and where they are now?

It's also interesting that TTE in Germany never seem to have been involved, although their background was purely rallying and with a WRC project to run maybe it was a question of capacity- the ST165 Celica GT-Four appeared for the first time in 1988.

I think there was a rumour at one time early in '88 of Juha Kankkunen having an outing in one of the MIL cars at either the Donington ETCC round or the TT though...

[banger_racer]

Found these pics of historic event at Oran Park there is a Toyota in pic #4 behind green Skyline, not sure if its genuine or a replica but thought id post anyway.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=530176

[KA]

Originally Posted by banger_racer

Found these pics of historic event at Oran Park there is a Toyota in pic #4 behind green Skyline, not sure if its genuine or a replica but thought id post anyway.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=530176

Looks like the John Smith car Terry was talking about a couple of posts back

[banger_racer]

And heres a better pic.
http://richardtaylor.zenfolio.com/p4...2E72#741355122

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by banger_racer

Found these pics of historic event at Oran Park there is a Toyota in pic #4 behind green Skyline, not sure if its genuine or a replica but thought id post anyway.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=530176

Yes that is indeed, John Smith in his genuine ex-works Group A car.

[Nicholas T]

I took these photos of John’s GPA Supra and have them hosted on my website.
http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/en/...0GA/ma70ga.htm


I bought a lot of stuff from John years ago and still talk to him.

John is getting into the historic meets now and the Supra will shine.

[terryobeirne]

NIcholas, a few comments from looking over your web-page
the gearbox is an english hewland, not Holinger, and its used in a magnesium housing.
100lb valve springs is not really a useful statement. You might have meat to say 100lb seat pressure??.
if I remember correctly, all the GpA supras had 65mm throttle body and there was nothing special about it, just the homologated part
The crank mods in that period were typically limited to getting the weight right. in some cases heavier turbo cranks were selectively machined down to the weight of the non-turbo crank, which was often the homologated one. thay way, the machining could be selective and have some other benefits.
I've sent you a PM about parts. cheers