[WEC] FIA World Endurance Championship

[Deleted]

If LMP1 was run by SRO we would probably have Norma or Autocon's piece of junk dominating the season right now (well until they decide it's someone else's turn to be on top) so I think we shoud be relatively cool with the situation as it stands. Even if it's far from ideal

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Chiana

If LMP1 was run by SRO we would probably have Norma or Autocon's piece of junk dominating the season right now (well until they decide it's someone else's turn to be on top) so I think we shoud be relatively cool with the situation as it stands. Even if it's far from ideal

I do have to laugh after watching the Spa 24 Hour though with the so called *equalised* BoP GT3, there was one stint in the early night of the race where the #99 and #98 Audi with Stippler and Rockenfeller were running laps up to Four to Six seconds faster than the majority of the field.

I think the Spa 24h shows once again what happens when you put factory backed teams against privateers and gentlemen drivers.

[Deleted]

R8 LMS has survived the adjustments pretty well and that artificial 65min pit stop rule was on their side too, but yeah I do agree

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by AGD

The ARX-01 also managed to kick the butts of the Zytek and Judd 3.4Ls in the former LMP2 class, what was their excuse back then? That the ARX-01 was benefiting from the diesel regulations?

love you for this one lol.....The Acura ARx and the Porsche RS spyder obliterated the LMP2 field using the same kind of engine..That is the perfect example of privateer vs Factory....The porsche and acura where on another level with reliability and pace.


and didnt the strakka p2 win in hungary over all the P1 cars.......that shows you the state of privateer P1's

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

and didnt the strakka p2 win in hungary over all the P1 cars.......that shows you the state of privateer P1's

ok fine the Porshce and acura beat the audi's and peugeots as well lol.....

interesting and funny that Porsche actually has recorded 1 victory over the blisteringly quick Peugeot 908. when they won sebring overall.

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by courageous

For the love of god, will somebody PLEASE let me know what the gap should be between
a full factory car developed to the current rules run by a factory team
compared to
a privateer car that is at least 2 years old but based on a design which is several years older run by a good but by no means factory effort team

If anyone can demonstrate through FACTS that a privateer team should be able to compete with a serious factory team then I would love to hear it

With Rebellion Racing running Toyota engines (how much Toyota effort is going into that?) and being able to perform some aero development on their Lolas you'd expect them to be a little closer to the diesels, surely? That they were so far off at Le Mans with new regs designed for closer racing between petrols and diesels, is that not a good example?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

and didnt the strakka p2 win in hungary over all the P1 cars.......that shows you the state of privateer P1's

Not only did they win overall, but they won the overall pole for that race as well. That may have been even more impressive than the win. And, yes, that race did contain the Oreca Peugeot 908 HF.

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

With Rebellion Racing running Toyota engines (how much Toyota effort is going into that?) and being able to perform some aero development on their Lolas you'd expect them to be a little closer to the diesels, surely? That they were so far off at Le Mans with new regs designed for closer racing between petrols and diesels, is that not a good example?

The TMG-Toyota engines in the Rebellion is a customer arrangement. Even with the chassis modifications, the total package is still quite raw compared to the type of development work that Peugeot and Audi are doing. It's debatable whether it is even better than the old grandfathered Pescarolo as it is, although perhaps the old LMP1 Judd engine is better than any of the privateer 3.4L ex-LMP2 V8s except for the HPD.

The ARX-01 did have a lot of development work back when it was a factory car and Wirth also seems to be on top of things as far as developing that car. To that extent, the ARX-01e was actually quite competitive at Sebring this year even with no on-track testing for the new body kit. It would have been tough for it to compete against Audi and Peugeot at Le Mans since it is an older car with not so much recent testing and on-track development, but it still probably would have dusted the other petrol runners.

Anyway, Peugeot and Audi are engaged in a battle royal right now and they seem to be sparing no expense to be able to beat each other. These teams are rumored to be firing drivers with great credentials just because their teams don't think they are fast enough. That's how intense they are pushing. The fact that their new cars were so fast and so reliable at Le Mans this year shows how much Le Mans means to them. Also, look at how fast they were able to go even with the new regs. The privateers at the moment just can't compete with that kind of financial commitment. For all we know, Audi and Peugeot may be spending more on developing their drinks bottles than some of the privateers are spending to develop their total car! IMO, the performance gap may be unfortunate, but it is reasonable and understandable.

[Mr Pink]

Sorry if this has been up recently, but has a calender (or a proposal for a calender) been released?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

Sorry if this has been up recently, but has a calender (or a proposal for a calender) been released?

7 races I believe, Le Mans plus 2 other European races, 2 races in the American continents, and 2 races in Asia. As far as what tracks make up the 6 unknown spots, who knows. I would assume that Spa and Silverstone would be the European events.

[Mr Pink]

Thank you! I really hope they have one of the Asia races at Suzuka, such a great circuit and with the Sportscar tradition in Japan they would be stupid not to have a race there.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

Thank you! I really hope they have one of the Asia races at Suzuka, such a great circuit and with the Sportscar tradition in Japan they would be stupid not to have a race there.

Suzuka, or any number of tracks in Japan, would be great. However, I'm not so sure if that will happen. Certainly at least one of the Asian dates will go to China, but it is possible that there could be two Chinese dates. Perhaps China and India or Malaysia? We'll see I guess. It would be great if the Asian Le Mans Series made a comeback too.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by AGD

7 races I believe, Le Mans plus 2 other European races, 2 races in the American continents, and 2 races in Asia. As far as what tracks make up the 6 unknown spots, who knows. I would assume that Spa and Silverstone would be the European events.

The original calendar would have read Sebring, Brazil, Spa, Le Mans, Silverstone, Zhuhai plus another race in Asia. But, the teams are unhappy with 3 races prior to Le Mans and the proposed solution of moving Brazil to a slot between Le Mans and Silverstone would present considerable logistical problems. So........

[gregtummer]

Is the general consensus that Petit Le Mans is gone next year?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Is the general consensus that Petit Le Mans is gone next year?

The logistics of PLM then Asia over a relatively short time period appears to be the problem. PLM seems unlikely, but that could change.

As a fan, I'd like to see the organisers move heaven and earth to include PLM, which in turn would give a (small) boost to a series currently 'on life support'.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

The logistics of PLM then Asia over a relatively short time period appears to be the problem. PLM seems unlikely, but that could change.

As a fan, I'd like to see the organisers move heaven and earth to include PLM, which in turn would give a (small) boost to a series currently 'on life support'.

I hope they still race there too.

I guess if they do Interlagos and then Petit Le Mans, that is still too close to the F1 Brazilian Grand Prix, right?

Plus I hear that only Audi wants to run Petit Le Mans.

[duke_toaster]

I'd rather have Sebring on the calendar than PLM if it is a straight-out one-or-the-other. On the subject of the Americas, what about Mexico City? Suzuka would certainly be a great venue.

[Speed-King]

I'd rather have Sebring on the calendar than PLM if it is a straight-out one-or-the-other.

On the other hand, I think Sebring could stand on its own, whereas PLM without the WEC is probably dead in the water.
With Sebring being so important as a pre-LM-test, I think the factories in P1 would still send their cars over, whereas all those who couldn't or didn't want to afford it could stay home.

On the subject of the Americas, what about Mexico City?

With everything that's going on in Mexico right now, that is probably not a good idea. They already had crazy security precautions in place when NASCAR and Grand-Am raced there, and things have only gotten worse ever since.

[gregtummer]

What about having Sebring and then Interlagos?

A poster stated above that teams don't want 3 WEC races before Le Mans, but why not?

You would think that would give them one more race to play with testing/aero/downforce/reliability, etc.

[old man]

To go back to the earlier discussion about WEC being a good thing for BBC to show at low cost when it is not doing F1, it will be intersting to see how the dates fit with whatever races BBC are going to show.
A little planning by those organising the WEC may just pay TV dividends if the right people could get involved. For example, Martin B is a past WSC, and as he said yesyerday, may be looking for some work. He could make the point that with some thought the BBC could "cash in" by using the good will the F1 team has generated to publicise a revived championship.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

whereas PLM without the WEC is probably dead in the water

6 out of 45 cars entered (plus the hybrid) were non-ALMS entries last year so I disagree... also the crowd attendance was probably the best ever

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Chiana

6 out of 45 cars entered (plus the hybrid) were non-ALMS entries last year so I disagree... also the crowd attendance was probably the best ever

There was, however, apart from the first one never a PLM without factory involvement in the prototype ranks... and arguably the record crowd was in part a result of the participation of the factory entries that had not been present for much of last year.

If it was just the regular ALMS field + some additional Cup-Porsches and LMPCs, I doubt we'd see anything remotely close to record crowds. The only additional attraction would be the race length....

[duke_toaster]

With regards to the calendar, why not think out of the box and run a September-June season with Le Mans as the last race of the season? Start the season with the 1000km of Suzuka and the second Asian round, a European race, run Interlagos in February before Sebring and end the season in Europe with Le Mans. I appreciate IndyCars did that and reversed it, but I think it actually could work here.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

There was, however, apart from the first one never a PLM without factory involvement in the prototype ranks... and arguably the record crowd was in part a result of the participation of the factory entries that had not been present for much of last year.

At "worst" years there's been like two Audis, Dysons, Autocon plus a couple of forgettable P2s -all ALMS regulars- in the prototype ranks, yet the event has been a success. PLM does have it's own heritage, yes the prototypes are important but not everything. If PLM was to run without WEC next year we'd probably see some extra (local) GT/LMP entries to spice things up anyway

[JAG]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Plus I hear that only Audi wants to run Petit Le Mans.

Here's a novel idea, Audi NA work out a semi-works deal for a full season ALMS entry.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

With regards to the calendar, why not think out of the box and run a September-June season with Le Mans as the last race of the season?

The problem with finishing a season with the most imnportant race is that the championship gets ignored. With the current scheme, Peugeot can say "we lost the 24 Hours, let's try to win the championship".

Or with another example: if X team wins the race and Y team wins the championship, who would be happier? To make both of them happy, let's have the 24 Hours and the final race as separate as possible.