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Old 24 May 2003, 05:53 (Ref:608503)   #1
BullittStang
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Advice for newbie photographer

Howdy folks,

I was wondering if I could get advice on some motorsports photography. In three weeks I'll be attending the Canadian GP and would like to take better photographs than I have been the last two times I've attended the event. The last two years I have been using a combination of digital zoom and throw away cameras to take my pictures, but I've never been really satisfied with the results. So I've upgraded.

Fortunately, my mother was a photography student not too long ago and had a Pentax K1000 which she freely gave to me. It came with 35-70 mm/f4-22 lens. I then bought a 60-300mm/f2-22 zoom lens (I hope I got the nomenclature right). Since I'm going with a group of people, I'm probably going to spend most of my time up in the grandstands, but fortunately, the seat are at Turn 6 which is a relative slow corner and a good spot for overtaking attempts. The seats are also relatively high up. I do plan howver to spend at least one session on both Friday and Saturday wondering the track trying to take pictures.

What advice would you give. My aim is to take good close up pictures of the cars. I don't need to see up the drivers noses, but would like pictures where the car takes up a good portion of the frame. Also, what film do you suggest. I bought a whole bunch of Kodak MAX 400 and 800 rolls. Any advice and differents opinions would be welcomed and greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe
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Old 24 May 2003, 07:58 (Ref:608548)   #2
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BullitStang, shooting from the stands is a little tough unless you have a very long lens. But with that said there is no reason that you shouldn't get some images that you will be happy with.

I don't know the Montreal track very well so I can't give you any advice on where and what you should shoot. So maybe some technical tips may help.

The Kodak film should work well for you. Depending on the light conditions at the time should determine what speed of film to use.

Shutter speed settings will depend on what type of shot you are taking. If you are shooting a car coming straight at you or going away from you, then 500th to 1000th of a second should freeze the car.

If it is a panning shot the speed of the shutter can vary depending on the speed of the car, how close you are to the car and the lens you are using. A fast car and the closer you are then a faster shutter speed. Fast car, far away, slower shutter speed. Slow car, far away, a really slow shutter speed. Panning takes a lot of practice to get good results. For me a good pan shot is where the letters on the tires are blurred and everything else is sharp. If I can read the letters clearly then I know that the shutter speed was too fast. You can also try to blurring everything. With a good panning technique and the right settings the shot can be very artisic.

I like my backgrounds soft (slightly out of focus). So I usually shoot at F/8 to F/11. But there are times that you can't do this. Extremely sunny day and slower shutter speeds will cause you to set smaller aperature (larger number) like f/16, F/22. There is not much you can do then.

If you have to shoot through fencing then set you aperature to a large opening (small number)F/4-F5.6. Focus on the car and the fence will seem to disappear.

About focusing, watch the cars go by a few times to see where they are on the track. Most of the time they will drive the same line each lap. Find a spot on the track where you want to take the picture. Focus the camera on that spot and wait for the car to come around again. Just before the car hits the exact spot press the shutter. The time it takes your brain to tell your finger to press the shutter and the shutter releases the car should be in the perfect spot.

A important thing to remember... put a fresh roll of film in your camera well before the start of the race. The start will mostly likely be the only time all the cars are close together. There is nothing worst when you go to shoot the perfect group shot of the cars and you have no frames left to shoot. My friend learn this lesson the hard way. He was in Montreal standing at the end of the front straight for the start of the race. A seasoned photographer told him to put in a fresh roll of film. He did not do this soon enough and rushed to get it done before the start. The start came and he fired away thinking he had some great shots. It was after a few laps that he realize that he shot more than 36 exposures. He checked his camera and found no film in it. He looked down and there was the film at his feet. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity that he missed.

Becoming good at motorsportrs photography it takes some practice like almost every other type of photography. Don't be disappointed if the picutre s don't turn out the way you expect. Learn from the experince. Photographing a race can be an rewarding and adds to your excitemnent to the time you spend at the races.

Good luck!
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Old 24 May 2003, 10:25 (Ref:608589)   #3
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From the stands you'll be hard pushed to take close-ups even with a 300. You best bet might be to look for shots of a group of cars, particularly on the opening laps. I doubt you'll use the 35-70 all weekend unless you can get into the support race paddock.

Personally I would have gone for 200 or even 100 ASA film. Unless it's very overcast you won't gain anything by using 800, if anything the results will be more grainy and less clear.

Film is still relatively cheap so don't be afraid to experiment a little or take too many pictures. Not much you can do about raceday but if you are there for the weekend definately spend a day wandering around. There's nothing worse than coming back with several rolls of film all taken from the same angle at the same corner, and apart from having a different car in shot all looking virtually identical.

One last thing, try to enjoy the race. It's far too easy to spend all day looking through the viewfinder and come away not having a clue who won or what happened.
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Old 24 May 2003, 18:26 (Ref:608854)   #4
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I'm just getting started in motorsports photography, and I have comperable equipment...so tips are useful...

I do however know the Montreal track fairly well, even the parts you can't get access to. The setup for the F1 race is very bad for amateur photographers (ie without a media/photo pass). There are very few phoot ops with general admission, and there are fewer every year. Which is why, you might actually find your best photo ops come from your grandstand (not true at most tracks). Turn 6 has a pretty good spot for photos if you move up the grandstand. That's a huge grandstand though, so try different spots from it during the practice sessions (you can move anywhere you want once you're in the stand, just give way to anyone that has the actual ticket for where you are). If you have a 300 lense, you should be able to get some good close ups there, especially if you can out-focus the fence (or move up higher and get the cars as they enter turn 6...won't be as close though). There's not much from general admissions, but check out what's available on the rowing basin side of the Casino hairpin, and on the inside of the hairpin facing the rowing basin. That's about it... try coming for the Cart race, there's a lot more photo ops.

I rarely take any pictures during the race, besides maybe the start. It's much much easier to take pictures during the practice sessions when there aren't people around to get in your way and vice versa. Sit back, enjoy the Michael Schumacher show .
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Old 26 May 2003, 08:05 (Ref:610176)   #5
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All good useful advice. Just remember, the film is actually quite cheap. Take plenty of shots. That one great shot you remember taking will probably be the one that's out of focus......

I wouldn't bother with 800 film. The only time I use that is at Le Mans in the early morning when the light is just coming up.

http://www.aysedasi.btinternet.co.uk...page2/0218.jpg

With plenty of sun you should be OK with 100 or 200 (although the 400's these days are vastly better than they used to be).
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Old 26 May 2003, 13:41 (Ref:610446)   #6
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I'll chime in here:

1. I'd consider trying Fuji over Kodak. Kodak film has a bias towards the reds, while Fuji has a bias toward green. You may find that the cars' colours pop more with Fuji.

2. For panning practise, go to a busy roadside, and just watch the cars through your lens. You'll get a feel for how to move your body. Rob's advice about prefocusing is an excellent point - select your "kill zone" based on what you can get in the frame, focus there, and stand so that your toes are pointing at the zone.

3. You may have time to pick up a 2x teleconverter on ebay. I got one for about $20 US for my K-mount camera, and I'm very happy with it. It really helps get some things much closer. The major downside of the teleconverter is that it robs you of some f-stops. I've got a f5.4-22 70-200mm lens, and using 200 ASA film even in good sunlight, my metering can take me down to 1/30 of a second. Since your long lens is an f2, you may not lose much.

Good luck!
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Old 26 May 2003, 22:25 (Ref:610913)   #7
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Hey guys,

Thanks for all the advice. This is all very helpful. I think the 2X converter may be a worthwhile investment. I also notice that they will not be putting up the grandstand that's next to mine (Grandstand 32 for anybody who's been to Montreal), so hopefully that just opened up a whole new are to take pictures.

It all sounds like great advice, keep it coming.

Joe
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Old 27 May 2003, 12:02 (Ref:611347)   #8
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For what it's worth on film, I agree with Paul - I've used Fuji film exclusively for the last 5-6 years.
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Old 27 May 2003, 15:14 (Ref:611534)   #9
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I agree with Paul Collins. Use Fuji for sports and Kodak for portraits. I would shoot ASA 400 for decent light. If the sky is cloudless, then ASA 100. If the light is too bright maybe 400 with a circular polarizer. Be careful, you can nullify the speed of your lens with too much filtering.

You will most likely need to manual focus as clutter such as light poles, catch fences and such will cause the camera to focus on them instead of the cars behind them. I would shoot with the aperture wide open to get as much speed as possible for static action shots at 1/500. If you pan, then you can use 1/250 or even slower to get more background blur. However, with the fstop set very low the depth of field will get pretty narrow and not all of the car will be in focus. Try to target on the driver's head in this case so it is in focus. It takes some practice to get good panning with manual focus. Be sure to follow through on your pans. If you sptop panning when you press the button the image will be blurry and just of the back half of the car.

A 2x extender will work well for you, but expect up to 2 fstops of speed loss this way. Also, expect your camera's autofocus to either be very slow or cease working corretcly altogether with an extender. Most autofocus systems struggle beyond f5.6 or f8.0 for action photography.

I have shot rolls and rolls of Kodak Max. The images will be clear and crisp but the color will be washed out to some degree compared to Fuji Superia. I would save the Max 800 for either night photography or dim lit sports action. The 400 will take nice pics except for the color. I would pick up a couple of rolls of Fuji Superia 400 and shoot it against the Kodak Max. The difference may amaze you.
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Old 28 May 2003, 01:20 (Ref:611989)   #10
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Just for comparison (Toronto area, prices in CAD)

Kodak Max 8x400ASA ~$20 at Costco
Fuji Superia 6x200ASA ~$18 at Wal-Mart (including 4 energizer e2 batteries).

So the prices are pretty comparable.
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Old 29 May 2003, 21:56 (Ref:614141)   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by MolsonBoy
If you are shooting a car coming straight at you or going away from you, then 500th to 1000th of a second should freeze the car.

If it is a panning shot the speed of the shutter can vary depending on the speed of the car, how close you are to the car and the lens you are using. A fast car and the closer you are then a faster shutter speed. Fast car, far away, slower shutter speed. Slow car, far away, a really slow shutter speed. Panning takes a lot of practice to get good results. For me a good pan shot is where the letters on the tires are blurred and everything else is sharp. If I can read the letters clearly then I know that the shutter speed was too fast. You can also try to blurring everything. With a good panning technique and the right settings the shot can be very artisic.

This is excellent advice! I put this advice into practice last week at a RallyCross meeting, and the pics are top quality, even if i say so myself. Majority of them are very sharp and in focus. Always knew I was going wrong somewhere - it was shutter speed! Only a couple came out out of focus but you can't be perfect all the time.
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Old 29 May 2003, 22:03 (Ref:614148)   #12
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Are you going to put any up for us to have a look at
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Old 29 May 2003, 22:21 (Ref:614157)   #13
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Yep currently scanning them all...
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Old 29 May 2003, 22:24 (Ref:614160)   #14
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at this time of night
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Old 29 May 2003, 22:32 (Ref:614169)   #15
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Study leave is a great thing...
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Old 29 May 2003, 22:52 (Ref:614187)   #16
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OK here's a panning shot and that's all I'm posting. If you have a look about the threads in this forum you should be able to find the server a few of my pics are on..
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Old 29 May 2003, 22:54 (Ref:614189)   #17
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BTW the vertical lines are thanks to my scanner.. Tried calibrating it but it's knackered for real by looks of things..
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