CART'S Killing Me

[floid2000]

Homestead is off the schedule and they're building ovals in England and Germany....Do I have this straight ? Who's minding the store ? BOBBY ?

[Liz]

CART is an international series. Rahal is answering the perpetual whine about increasing attendance by "making the series more attractive to Americans" by moving the races to places where people don't hae to be wooed to see them. This, to me, makes perfect sense.

[wallbanger]

As a result of an agreement with the FIA supersanctioning body (ostensibly to protect ForMoola One from encroachment), CART is BOUND to race in an "oval" configuration in any events outside of North America.

The street race in Surfers Paradise is exempt because it pre-existed the FIA compact. The "ro-val" course in Brazil is a good example of how the ruling can be - to an extent - circumvented.

[Liz]

So what is our problem with this?

[wallbanger]

No problem, Liz...just giving floid2000 a reason not to dump on Mr. Rahal!

[Liz]

Maybe I don't understand Floid's problem then.

[Crash Test]

I think it is a case of which is more valuable to Cart:
The Miami area which attracts poor crowds, and is still a part of North America.
Or England/Germany which aremuch larger markets, will get huge crowds, and be very popular with the sponsors.

Of course it is going to annoy the people of Miami, heck, i dread the day when the Gold Coast race gets the punt...

[floid2000]

I thought Europeans didn't like ovals

[Liz]

Europeans like CART. And the ovals are a way to get into the market - Bernie will die some day and the market for road courses will then be open - but unless we sell the product to them somehow, they won't want it when we have what they REALLY want to see.

[KC]

A funny thing about oval racing and the stereotype that Brits don't like it. The British Motor Racing Circuit site lists tracks in England. It shows the large front line circuits like Donington, Silverstone, and Brands Hatch, it also lists the lesser club circuits and lists no less than 16 oval tracks. Most of these circuits are not paved and are raced by speedway bikes or bangers, but oval racing thrives in England. The track at Rockingham incorporates a road course similar to Charlotte or Daytona and a class similar to the Busch Grand National series is getting a lot of hype from drivers such as John Cleland and Matt Neal.

As far as what Floid2000 feels about it from his initial post I didn't understand either.

[wallbanger]

The Miami event (of late at the Homestead oval)had always been a street race held at Tamiami Park. The Miami market will continue to host a CART race - likely another street circuit deal - when the imminent dropping of Homestead occurs!

[bella]

we haven't seen ovals yet. how can you be sure we don't like them?

[floid2000]

You people dont make any sense. Do you like ovals or not ?
Do you really believe that more than 42,ooo will attend in the UK or Germany ? No less than 12 Cart drivers live in South Florida. Watch any Cart commercial and note the teal wall. HOMESTEAD. Nascar demanded the 40,000 xtra seats. Show me 82,000 in the UK willing to pay $150.00 to watch Cart on an oval.

[Liz]

In the first place, as Bella said, they haven't seen oval racing in person, so they can't say whether they like it or not.

In the second place, Rockingham will have only 27,000 seats completed for their first race, and they'll probably be sold out by the time they go on sale, particularly since a large number of US are planning to be there.

In the third place, the tickets won't cost $150.00.

In the fourth place, what the **** has NASCAR got to do with anything? This is a CART race, not Rednek Racing.

And in the final place for now, what possible difference does it make where the pilots live if nobody comes to the races - which nobody comes to Homestead? Why not move it back to a Miami street race as it used to be if you think America should have all the races, and see if it's the oval or the location?

[angst]

I'll agree with you there, I would pay good money to see CART at a road circuit, but ovals just don't do it for me. I don't know why, they just don't.

[floid2000]

27,000 blokes at less than $150.00 " That'll make money for Cart" Liz. You're too busy American bashing to smell the coffee. Miami can draw 42,000 at $150.00 a head. HELLO ???? What drivers homes has to do with it is convenience. Why do you think all of the teams used to be out of Indiana ? Most of the personel lived within 100 miles. Since the eightys Cart people have been drawn to South Florida for the great weather and abundant test facilities nearby. Ive got news for you Liz Mr. Rahal is going to bankrupt Cart. Even the people at ESPN have been openly questioning his judgement. You don't alienate the fans you already have ,to go after a new market. What's next on the ****list ? Laguna Seca ? OH YEAH ! Let's close down old dangerous Michigan Speedway .Then all of the sissyboys will feel safer. LAST THING.................What the hell does Alex's wife know about anything ?

[angst]

Alex's wife knows that Alex is better alive and walking than dead or in a wheelchair.

[jvilleneuve2000]

I know that personal insults are not allowed in forums but floid2000, you are a annoying arrogant American. Cart is not getting good viewing figures anywhere in the world because, the tv coverage is ****. Bobby rahal has made this his main priority for next season, so why would cart go bankrupt!!!!!, he is making important changes in order for it to survive.
Oh and another thing dont forget that the majority of the the chassis, engines,gearboxes ect that are in CART are all form ENGLAND.

[Liz]

As far as making money goes, this is the same thing That Guy Who Ruined Indy is doing with the F1 race this year - make the ticket prices low enough to get people into the track, and they will come back again. Go into a new market with prices too high for the average fan to afford, and you will guarantee yourself a bankruptcy.

In the seventies and eighties the world was quite a different place from what it is today, as far as travel goes. In the seventies and eighties the average person did not travel far from his home by any means but automobile. In the run-up to the 21st century, average people travel to Europe routinely by plane. In fact, it is much cheaper to fly to England round trip from Canada than it is to drive to Miami.

Believe it or not, Floid, there are 3 billion people in the world who don't vacation in Florida, now or ever. And of those 3 billion, at least 2,900,000,000 of them don't even know where Florida is.

However, a lot of these people watch open wheel racing in Europe and Asia - and they enjoy it.

Being a former American myself, I understand your insular, parocial attitude, but just be aware of it before you start insulting other peoples' intelligence.

Thank you. Now excuse me, the race is starting!

[floid2000]

WHAT THE HELL IS A " FORMER AMERICAN " I can't believe you renounced your citizenship. " Say it ain't so" he said, Drooling tobacco juice profusely and belching the Star Spangled Banner. If the Btitish can't afford to go to the races why don't they run Cart at Homestead ? We've got jobs over here. We can buy tickets. Some day when you're old and grey , you'll retire in Pompano Beach ,Florida with the rest of the Canadians.

[Liz]

A Former American is someone who decides she'd rather share her citizenship with Paul Tracy than with you.

Thank you for reminding me.

[jvilleneuve2000]

Cant afford to go to race!!!!!, you are really starting to **** me of floid2000. If we cant afford to go to races why is silvestone full every year for the British gp, when this year it cost me £275 (i think that is about $550), how much do they charge americans??? £35 lol. Maybe CART dosent want to stay in america because it wants to get away form people like you.

[bella]

we're a damn site richer than most americans are. our house prices ahow that. averege house price - £110,000 (about $190,000). and we work our butts of for it.

the only reason people move to florida is because of the climate. that's why i'm going to move there when i get my job as a pilot earning $60,000 a year after 2 years. i'm not going for disney land.

floid, you're in a hole, and you're digging very deep. as a somewhat less proud than i should be brit, i ask you to stop digging, stop insulting my country and our working spirit. we have a huge number of very hard working people who decide to spend their money on a family holiday they've been working for for 5 years in disneyland. we bring the flipping money into your country, and i think you should consider that before going all self-righteous on us.

we have such a love for motorsport, you'd get 90,000+ paying more than £400 for a f1 race. the only reason why cart wouldn't get that is becaue it's not high profile enough. you need make sure all those f1 fans are aware you can actually get overtaking in a major racing series before you go building 100,000+ seater oval tracks. rockingham will expand very quickly, once people get an idea of what goes on. i'll certainly be there for as many races as i can.

on your somewhat daft point about drivers residences, i can tell you that at least one only lives there because of the climate. not because it's a nice place. we don't care where our drivers live. we just want to see racing. i don't like my driver because he lives in cambridge! i lie him because he's fast and determined.

a huge percentage of people think that oval racing is borning because they've never had a chance to do a direct comparison with their beloved f1. if they could see what goes on at an oval race, they'd change. and if they could go to a race, where they can take their kids, where it isn't muddy, where they can get a grandstand seat without having to get up at an ungodly hour and fight for a bit of grasss mound 200m away from the track at 6am, where they can enjoy reasonable priced food and not worry about toilet facilities, they'd be there every bloody race.

please do not insult people. this is a forum, ot a shouting shop. if you want to do that, be a senator or something. and leave my and jvilleneuve2000's country out of it. we're a damn site better than you at the moment.

[Marshal]

Trying not to get too heated about this, floid, saying europeans don't like ovals (and remember we had the first one) is a bit like saying americans don't like road courses, a bit fatuous.

All over the world all sorts of people like all sorts of racing. Lets see how it goes eh?

[Jay]

From a business point of view, they are making a good decision to have a Cart race in the UK.

Although Rockingham might not make a profit in its first year, it will display Cart to a whole new audience. The only reason they will only be able to get 27 000 or what ever for the first race is a limited seating capacity. I don't think I would be exagerating when I say that, if they had the seats, within 2 years, they could easily get over 100 000 for a race at Rockingham. Even if they don't they will undoubtably gain a much bigger following.

Plus there is the TV coverage. Cart's coverage in the UK and Europe is very poor right now. If it was showcased to motorsports fans, and gained a bigger following, it would undoubtably get better coverage.

You may be letting down 40 000 in Florida that would have attended a Cart race, but by moving to the UK you gain a whole new market that will buy race tickets and merchandise. The people in Florida are a short flight (or drive more likely) from another Cart race. If they really want to see one, it is not a big deal.

PS Floid, as has been said the old Canadians that go to Florida do it purely for the Climate. Actually the majority of them are heading to Vancouver Island now. Having been to both places I can see why.