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Old 15 Apr 2012, 22:32 (Ref:3059878)   #1
E36ST
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MSNZ & TMC - 'Wheels start to come off'

Nice that the mainstream media is finally picking up on the discontent that has been around for quite a while now!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/n...ectid=10798978


P.S. meant to be 'TMC' not 'TMS' but I'm unable to edit it. Can a mod change please.
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Old 15 Apr 2012, 22:50 (Ref:3059892)   #2
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Originally Posted by E36ST View Post
Nice that the mainstream media is finally picking up on the discontent that has been around for quite a while now!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/n...ectid=10798978


P.S. meant to be 'TMC' not 'TMS' but I'm unable to edit it. Can a mod change please.
Yes, and about time too. TMC directors have treated the sport, and the competitors, with utter arrogance and contempt for far too long. How can they present a set of accounts to their shareholders where all the detail (who was paid how much etc) and then when asked to, refuse to disclose further information. Absolutely unbelievable. There's no transparency at all, and I bet they would be too embarrassed to show their faces at a track if their wheeling and dealing became public knowledge.
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Old 15 Apr 2012, 22:58 (Ref:3059895)   #3
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ahh the politics of motorsports
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Old 15 Apr 2012, 23:11 (Ref:3059900)   #4
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Yes, and about time too. TMC directors have treated the sport, and the competitors, with utter arrogance and contempt for far too long. How can they present a set of accounts to their shareholders where all the detail (who was paid how much etc) and then when asked to, refuse to disclose further information. Absolutely unbelievable. There's no transparency at all, and I bet they would be too embarrassed to show their faces at a track if their wheeling and dealing became public knowledge.
yes , but will the clubs have the balls when it comes to conference and the vote......i have heard this before and when push comes to shove the clubs back down for fear of repercussions......i hope for the sports sake that they all stick together and force change...
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Old 15 Apr 2012, 23:56 (Ref:3059920)   #5
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The answer is probably no they won't. I'm told by those who have been around the sport far longer than I have, that the relationship between TMC and MSNZ (before the current presidency) was a little too "buddy-buddy" and no-one else wanted to take on TMC's role. MSNZ and the clubs have let this "transparency" issue slide in the past, so what will it take for this to change?
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Old 16 Apr 2012, 01:14 (Ref:3059938)   #6
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Glad it's now out in the media.

I've said many times and laid out the case for it, that a national FIA representative should not be involved with the commercial side of the sport due to conflicts of interest and the result being the loss of it's impartiality.

And you can see MSNZ basically admitting that.

I think Hampton Downs has a lot of potential but if someone like Tony Quinn can take it a step further, then it might be worth considering.
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Old 16 Apr 2012, 08:32 (Ref:3060033)   #7
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This is a disgrace of major poportions and to read they are sticking their oar into ST and making rules to **** them off is below the belt and sour grapes. Harris and the executive have to go for not only abuse of power, they need to go for listening to TMC and the antics of Martin Fine. Have you ever heard anything like this in your time! Whos supposed to be running this ship? Good on the man that wrote this and NZ Clubs need to get behind this. This is as bad as FIFA?
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Old 16 Apr 2012, 09:40 (Ref:3060065)   #8
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This is a disgrace of major poportions and to read they are sticking their oar into ST and making rules to **** them off is below the belt and sour grapes. Harris and the executive have to go for not only abuse of power, they need to go for listening to TMC and the antics of Martin Fine. Have you ever heard anything like this in your time! Whos supposed to be running this ship? Good on the man that wrote this and NZ Clubs need to get behind this. This is as bad as FIFA?
With the exception of a couple of posters who are no doubt directly involved with TMC and/or MNZ, I reckon pretty much everyone in the sport would agree with that article too. Things have got to change - hey how about we take a case to the FIA that MNZ no longer be the official governing body asnd replace them with some people who think in the interests of the sport, not like petty despots who are more interested in feathering their nests and protecting their patch than the furthering of the sport?!
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Old 16 Apr 2012, 18:33 (Ref:3060389)   #9
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God, this reads like a CAMS thread - LOL and the article could read like a CAMS V8SC article

Last edited by Trevor; 16 Apr 2012 at 18:41.
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Old 17 Apr 2012, 00:35 (Ref:3060567)   #10
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I hope this is not a classic case of 'everyone want's change but is sitting back waiting for everyone else to work hard to get it...'

Dont all competitors have to be members of car clubs and dont these members vote in the executive at their clubs ? The same executive members that then vote the MNZ people in ? If so, why is it so hard to change MNZ ?

If new management is required it's got to start at 'grass roots' level & filter upwards but this involves a little committment of time and support at your local car club.

If everyone is that unhappy and does something about it, change should be achievable within 12 months.
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Old 17 Apr 2012, 01:45 (Ref:3060616)   #11
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I hope this is not a classic case of 'everyone want's change but is sitting back waiting for everyone else to work hard to get it...'
sounds like the reason why I couldn't find temp work in NZ while here on a working holiday
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Old 17 Apr 2012, 03:48 (Ref:3060658)   #12
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I hope this is not a classic case of 'everyone want's change but is sitting back waiting for everyone else to work hard to get it...'

Dont all competitors have to be members of car clubs and dont these members vote in the executive at their clubs ? The same executive members that then vote the MNZ people in ? If so, why is it so hard to change MNZ ?

If new management is required it's got to start at 'grass roots' level & filter upwards but this involves a little committment of time and support at your local car club.

If everyone is that unhappy and does something about it, change should be achievable within 12 months.
Attempts have been made before to unseat the current lot and their mates, but as someone said there is a voting bloc of car clubs mainly from the South Island that has managed to dominate for years, and their mates are the ones running the show. And in the past it has been a case of "show dissent and suffer the repercussions" - a bit like Gaddafi or Assad. People like the Hampton Downs guys have been given the cold shoulder, had spurious technical rules thrown at them (like the 2 warmup laps debacle) and other such childish things.

But, every dog has its day, and if there is enough discontent within the clubs when they see (or don't see as it seems to be) how much of their hard earned contributions are being wasted, then maybe there will be enough numbers out there to force the changes that need to be made.

Which is why articles like the Herald one, and discussion forums like this one that are used by competitors and officials, are good because they get the real issues out in the open where they can be debated rather than people just complaining to each other when they are out of earshot of Big Brother...
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Old 17 Apr 2012, 05:27 (Ref:3060671)   #13
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The comment about the supposed 'Southen bloc' is an odd one. It's my personal view but I understand that the Canterbury Car Club wouldn't be against such a change. I haven't heard where South Canterbury Car Club & Southland Sports Car Club stand, although with the amount of business that the Tier 1 meetings bring to their circuits then they would no doubt be keen to protect that.

I also understand that as far as voting on MSNZ matters go, each of these car clubs only have 1(?) vote, but so do all of the other affiliated motorsport clubs (individual marque Car Clubs, rally clubs) all have a vote each too and so collectively these far outweigh the opinions & wishes of the circuit operating clubs.

I understand that this is why avgas was banned by MSNZ, because it was the large number of small clubs that thought 'we don't care as this doesn't concerns us but lets vote for it anyway', which caused a major headache for many circuit racers.
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Old 17 Apr 2012, 05:44 (Ref:3060674)   #14
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i don't think it would matter if every member club had a vote, of if every licenced member, had a vote.......... the result would be the same.

people would still talk about change, but be too scared to help create it, unfortunately
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Old 17 Apr 2012, 05:52 (Ref:3060677)   #15
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The comment about the supposed 'Southen bloc' is an odd one. It's my personal view but I understand that the Canterbury Car Club wouldn't be against such a change. I haven't heard where South Canterbury Car Club & Southland Sports Car Club stand, although with the amount of business that the Tier 1 meetings bring to their circuits then they would no doubt be keen to protect that.

I also understand that as far as voting on MSNZ matters go, each of these car clubs only have 1(?) vote, but so do all of the other affiliated motorsport clubs (individual marque Car Clubs, rally clubs) all have a vote each too and so collectively these far outweigh the opinions & wishes of the circuit operating clubs.

I understand that this is why avgas was banned by MSNZ, because it was the large number of small clubs that thought 'we don't care as this doesn't concerns us but lets vote for it anyway', which caused a major headache for many circuit racers.
I think you have correctly identified the basis of a representation problem with the MSNZ structure. There is no differentiation in voting between a small club that may actually have no members who are actively involved in motor sport and a large club who has many active competitors and also puts on competition events - this seems inherently wrong.
There is also the issue of significant active motor sport groups that have no representation at all. For example, the E30 and Open BMW Groups, the ERC Group (Arrows and AES series saloons and sports cars), the F5000s, the Formula Juniors etc. There are literally hundreds of active competitors in these groups with no specific representation at MSNZ because they fail to meet the criteria of being an Incorporated Society - again this is inherently wrong but the hierarchy at MSNZ are either oblivious to the problem or chose to do nothing about it.
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