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Old 17 Apr 2012, 05:58 (Ref:3060679)   #16
RogerH
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RogerH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRogerH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by smokin'joe View Post
i don't think it would matter if every member club had a vote, of if every licenced member, had a vote.......... the result would be the same.

people would still talk about change, but be too scared to help create it, unfortunately
At this coming conference TACCOC is actually doing something about it. They have put forward three remits - one on the issue of MSNZ as an administrative and regulatory body also being involved in commercial motor sport activities, one about bringing back proxy voting in order to widen representation and not restrict it to just those clubs who turn up at Council and one about the representation issues touched on in this thread.
TACCOC has taken this stand in order to follow the correct process and to get these issues debated. The fear is that the status quo will prevail and these remits will be voted down (as have similar ones in the past) and the MSNZ ship will keep steaming on the same course.
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Old 17 Apr 2012, 09:26 (Ref:3060746)   #17
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Originally Posted by RogerH View Post
At this coming conference TACCOC is actually doing something about it. They have put forward three remits - one on the issue of MSNZ as an administrative and regulatory body also being involved in commercial motor sport activities, one about bringing back proxy voting in order to widen representation and not restrict it to just those clubs who turn up at Council and one about the representation issues touched on in this thread.
TACCOC has taken this stand in order to follow the correct process and to get these issues debated. The fear is that the status quo will prevail and these remits will be voted down (as have similar ones in the past) and the MSNZ ship will keep steaming on the same course.
Roger, have seen your posts elsewhere, and the efforts of your member club are to be applauded, especially if even partially sucessful.
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Old 17 Apr 2012, 10:23 (Ref:3060792)   #18
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Originally Posted by RogerH View Post
At this coming conference TACCOC is actually doing something about it. They have put forward three remits - one on the issue of MSNZ as an administrative and regulatory body also being involved in commercial motor sport activities, one about bringing back proxy voting in order to widen representation and not restrict it to just those clubs who turn up at Council and one about the representation issues touched on in this thread.
TACCOC has taken this stand in order to follow the correct process and to get these issues debated. The fear is that the status quo will prevail and these remits will be voted down (as have similar ones in the past) and the MSNZ ship will keep steaming on the same course.
As always, well put by Roger. The difficulty lies in getting enough clubs to vote for the changes, as he says. So, I guess one approach could be to lobby your local voting member of your car club stating what the benefits are of such changes and the problems with keeping the status quo. It then needs someone knowledgeable and eloquent to stand up at the AGM and give an impassioned speech to that end.

But it would really help if the voting members who were going to go were briefed beforehand on the advantages of redressing the balance in favour of the men and women who love to go racing, or be involved in racing or the sport in general.

All power to you, I truly hope you succeed!

PS I was definitely not referring to CCC earlier, more some of the very southern ones...
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Old 17 Apr 2012, 16:01 (Ref:3060968)   #19
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The comment about the supposed 'Southen bloc' is an odd one. It's my personal view but I understand that the Canterbury Car Club wouldn't be against such a change. I haven't heard where South Canterbury Car Club & Southland Sports Car Club stand, although with the amount of business that the Tier 1 meetings bring to their circuits then they would no doubt be keen to protect that.

I also understand that as far as voting on MSNZ matters go, each of these car clubs only have 1(?) vote, but so do all of the other affiliated motorsport clubs (individual marque Car Clubs, rally clubs) all have a vote each too and so collectively these far outweigh the opinions & wishes of the circuit operating clubs.

I understand that this is why avgas was banned by MSNZ, because it was the large number of small clubs that thought 'we don't care as this doesn't concerns us but lets vote for it anyway', which caused a major headache for many circuit racers.
The CCC I would reckon is at a minimum neutral in the dispute. SCCC I would reckon would favor anything MSNZ would do because they bring Tier 1 and at the moment Supertourers isn't coming to Timaru. I don't know where the Southland Club would stand.

Sounds like a big mess to me and something that needs to get squared away. For one thing rally clubs or other car clubs that don't have anything to do with circuit racing issues, should not be voting on those issues.
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Old 17 Apr 2012, 21:19 (Ref:3061142)   #20
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For one thing rally clubs or other car clubs that don't have anything to do with circuit racing issues, should not be voting on those issues.
Another thing is that the various MSNZ Advisory Commission members are voted for by all clubs. This creates the crazy situation where, for example, the Historic and Classic Commission members are voted for by a majority of clubs that have either nothing or very little to do with historic and classic circuit racing. The same applies with the election of other commission members like rally, where the majority of voting clubs have nothing or little to do with rally.

What should happen, is that only the clubs affiliated to the various disciplines vote for the respective Commission Members - only rally clubs vote for rally Commission members etc.
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Old 17 Apr 2012, 22:23 (Ref:3061168)   #21
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The voting restrictions have been considered before however it does get down to how do you consider what is a particular type of club to vote on specalist commissions

I am secretary of a car club which is predominately rally competitors however we do have a number of circuit racing competitors so consider that we should be able to vote in both areas

One major issue that has arisen is that the H&C commission appears to have taken over managment of historic rally cars so there could be an even larger interest in the historic and classic meetings which of course is not restricted to racing circuits

Interesting with all the discussion of dis-satisfaction is the number of people who are not offering themselves for election to various committees - it is far easier to fix something from inside the tent rather than simply grizzling from outside
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Old 17 Apr 2012, 22:47 (Ref:3061184)   #22
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Interesting with all the discussion of dis-satisfaction is the number of people who are not offering themselves for election to various committees - it is far easier to fix something from inside the tent rather than simply grizzling from outside
The issue of grizzling and not offering yourself for election is an easy criticism to counter negative comments against MSNZ. It has been raised a few times and most recently in respect of there being no Auckland MSNZ Executive member for over ten years. It was pointed out that, for example, Tony Roberts from Auckland stood unsuccessfully for Executive last year. Additionally, I stood for a Commission position last year (again unsuccessfully) so having tried to fix things from inside the tent the only option seems to be "grizzling" from outside .........
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Old 18 Apr 2012, 07:44 (Ref:3061272)   #23
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so you stand for a position once and miss out - how about some steel in the attempts and try again -it is called the democratic process

would have thought that with AGCM in Auckland this year and with the hype around Hampton that Tony would have had another crack and also yourself given I would have expected a high turnout of Auckland based clubs.

am interested in your clubs remit regarding the return of proxy voting - cant really recall when we ever had proxy voting at AGCM
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Old 18 Apr 2012, 10:27 (Ref:3061369)   #24
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Where turkeys lead, donkeys will follow. Sometimes you wonder if it is worth becoming another clown in the circus.

There is some good work done by some good people within MSNZ.

Pity about the the management
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Old 18 Apr 2012, 12:10 (Ref:3061417)   #25
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so you stand for a position once and miss out - how about some steel in the attempts and try again -it is called the democratic process

would have thought that with AGCM in Auckland this year and with the hype around Hampton that Tony would have had another crack and also yourself given I would have expected a high turnout of Auckland based clubs.

am interested in your clubs remit regarding the return of proxy voting - cant really recall when we ever had proxy voting at AGCM
You sound very much like a MSNZ official "Tracie" - might be revealing if you came out and disclosed who you really are .....

Just as it is the democratic process to stand for election, it is also the constitutional process to place remits before Council.

With the proxy voting issue, it is really a democratic and representation issue - I think you will find that most entities with robust governance (like most public companies) provide for proxy voting.
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Old 19 Apr 2012, 01:44 (Ref:3061799)   #26
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You sound very much like a MSNZ official "Tracie" - might be revealing if you came out and disclosed who you really are .....
Bang on there, brother. It's pretty obvious from the defensive comments that "Tracie" is upset by criticism of the way "she" helps run the show...

I wish you every success in your efforts to promote change in an organization that has more than a few rotten apples in the barrel...
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Old 19 Apr 2012, 01:48 (Ref:3061800)   #27
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I agree with Roger I have known a few Auckland guys that have tried to be on the board with no results. I would like to see a big shake up of MNZ and Motorsport company. The show the V8ST are putting on has shown up the Motorsport company and I think the marketing of the sport has been very poor this year and others and I thought they would have ramped it up to compete against the ST.

Tracie I'm interested to hear you comments but people have been trying for over 20 years to make changes, I think you are a little rude to say people are just grizzling from the outside.
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Old 19 Apr 2012, 02:42 (Ref:3061811)   #28
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I agree with Roger I have known a few Auckland guys that have tried to be on the board with no results. I would like to see a big shake up of MNZ and Motorsport company. The show the V8ST are putting on has shown up the Motorsport company and I think the marketing of the sport has been very poor this year and others and I thought they would have ramped it up to compete against the ST.

Tracie I'm interested to hear you comments but people have been trying for over 20 years to make changes, I think you are a little rude to say people are just grizzling from the outside.
I think you'll find that's because he's speaking from the inside of his ivory tower!
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Old 19 Apr 2012, 10:34 (Ref:3061906)   #29
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Just picked up on this news release.



There will be a new approach to the promotion of premier race meetings in 2012. A new name – MotorSport Promotions Limited – a new board and some new faces will complement a raft of other changes for premier classes in the next Championship season.

MotorSport New Zealand has announced a new six-member board as part of a plan to revitalise the promotion of the premier race season in 2012. The appointments supplement existing board members Bill Brown, representing circuit interests, Auckland businessman Shane McKillen and CEO Martin Fine.

Stepping up to lead the charge are Toyota New Zealand’s general manager of finance John Fowke, South Island businessman and motorsport identity Ian (Inky) Tulloch and David Dovey, current president of the IRC, the independent race class series which has supported both the premier series and Toyota International Series this year. Additional specialist appointments are also expected to be made.

“The move to widen the board is a conscious effort to include more stakeholders in the business of promoting the premier end of the sport,” MotorSport President Shayne Harris said in announcing the appointments. “Having the support of key stakeholders like the Toyota Racing Series and NZV8 Championship sends a clear signal to competitors and sponsors alike that the promotions company remains a vital link in creating a real place to showcase the sport at its most competitive level.”

“Careers are made from winning New Zealand Championships and New Zealand is fortunate to have some of the best trophies in its trophy cabinet, including the GP title and the coveted Gold Stars,” he said.

The appointment of the IRC coordinator means closer ties to many of the other promotable and growing categories. “There is a lot of synergy between our respective series,” said Dovey. “This tie-up will help the company offer IRC classes an opportunity to step up to the main game, while supplying additional classes at some championship meetings. It also gives us access to promotional expertise at some of our meetings,” he said.

A new role of marketing manager for the V8 category has also been created, with long-time motorsport marketing guru Brian Lawrence joining the team from Australia.

“This restructure gives us a good opportunity to evaluate our business, access some new talent and harness some new technology,” said Fine. “Motorsport isn’t just about cars racing on circuits; people want to be entertained both on and off track. The opportunity to fill our programmes with a great cross-section of motorsport will satisfy the needs of the true petrolhead, but at the same time we will be offering great entertainment for families in the areas around New Zealand where our shareholding circuits are operating,” he said.

Further announcements are expected following the first board meeting later this month.



Will be very interesting to see how it all comes out in th future, obviously the powers that be had also worked out that TMC as it was structured and as how we all knew it had passed it's used by date.
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Old 19 Apr 2012, 23:07 (Ref:3062313)   #30
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OMG, Just having breakfast with my ipad to this stunning news. Poor Brian Laurence, does he know what hes got into here and does MPL realise that there isnt a V8SC team he hasnt worked for!
New company, same old faces, same leaders.
This is not the news motorsport in NZ needs to hear. Do you think a name change will make a difference, remember a leopard never changes its spots.
Fine seems to be the major sokesman here or could he be the president in disguise given his influence. He was struck off the Bar, influenced the MSNZ backdown back when clark proctor sent the heavies around to beat Ross thurston up (who was one of their own back then) after a DQ, who was involved in evading a driver from drug testing charges, who was involved in intervening in the infamous triple X porsche sandwhich at Timaru in 2011 and it nearly cost their own Dan gaunt the championship and who was involved when XXX were alowed to have pit garages at Taupo when all other drivers had to drive through pits on their hot race tyres.
I hope his accounts of MSC are covered up better for when the IRD come see him than the presentation to the sport.
So who are the victims here from MSC to MPL, Short, cooper or both. Think they have got the wrong man here but its an old boys network so you always look after each other right.
When will the members learn and good on you Roger H that the sooner the sport gets into the 21st century and dumps the old boys, dumps the organisation and pulls the sport into an answerable accounatble business like rugby, league, cricket etc, the sooner bloke can feel like going racing again.
Sad day, on a positive not what crazy fields for GT1 and muscle cars at hamilton, does anyone know if this is being screened on the speed channel?
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