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Old 8 Jan 2011, 11:55 (Ref:2812888)   #26
Amaroo Park
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Even from this early stage the VP Commodore runners realised that there had been a serious mistake made by TWR in the design and development of Front & Rear Spoilers on the cars. HRT had developed them sent them to the UK for final sign off and the TWR engineers in the wisdom changed them
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Old 8 Jan 2011, 12:28 (Ref:2812894)   #27
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Even from this early stage the VP Commodore runners realised that there had been a serious mistake made by TWR in the design and development of Front & Rear Spoilers on the cars. HRT had developed them sent them to the UK for final sign off and the TWR engineers in the wisdom changed them
..so Falcons from Glenn Seton and Dick Johnson would dominate the first few years of V8 racing. As I remember it, those aero kits were homologated season-by-season, so when something did or did not work, you were stuck with it.

Chunterer, go bye the dvd - you won't be disappointed. Bathurst 1992 had just about all the dramas you wouldn't write into a Hollywood script. The championship winning Nissan hounded by the Shell-Sierra, out for revenge, every inch of the way for the expected 161 laps, only to be cut short by some 20 or 30 odd laps. I think this was one of those few days that Dick Johnson went silent, simply because he was in stealth mode, focusing on that red Skyline in front of him, with a chance of winning the race once again. He and John Bowe finished second, but by my recockning their finest drive together ever.

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Old 8 Jan 2011, 21:32 (Ref:2813036)   #28
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Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
..so Falcons from Glenn Seton and Dick Johnson would dominate the first few years of V8 racing. As I remember it, those aero kits were homologated season-by-season, so when something did or did not work, you were stuck with it.
Holden were allowed a 're'-homologation during mid-1993, which promptly led to them dominating the remainder of the ATCC and Bathurst. The parity adjustment didn't even things up, just swung them the other way
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Old 9 Jan 2011, 00:05 (Ref:2813076)   #29
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Even from this early stage the VP Commodore runners realised that there had been a serious mistake made by TWR in the design and development of Front & Rear Spoilers on the cars. HRT had developed them sent them to the UK for final sign off and the TWR engineers in the wisdom changed them
The funny part about it, Mr Brock knocked the front splitter off his VP at a race in '93, and the car actually went FASTER without it...
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Old 9 Jan 2011, 06:38 (Ref:2813113)   #30
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The funny part about it, Mr Brock knocked the front splitter off his VP at a race in '93, and the car actually went FASTER without it...

That was at the Winton round were Perkins was chasing Brock after he knoced the spoiler off. Brock set a faster time than both he and Perkins with out it
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Old 10 Jan 2011, 08:29 (Ref:2813558)   #31
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Was Phil Johnson's VL the ex-Tim Slako or ex-Alf Barbagallo car?
And what was the origin of Mike Steele's RS500?
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Old 11 Jan 2011, 03:36 (Ref:2814008)   #32
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Not sure about the VL, but I believe the Mike Steele Sierra was one of the ex-Brock units.
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Old 17 Jan 2011, 08:15 (Ref:2816638)   #33
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the VL was ex Barbagallo
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Old 27 Jan 2011, 23:53 (Ref:2821531)   #34
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Just noticed a thing about the Adelaide GP support race. I presume this was the last Group A race run in Australia and among the starters were Lawrie Nelson and his trusty Ford Mustang. 8 years earlier Lawrie and the 'Stang tried to make it to the start line of the Sandown 500 endurance race for the first Australian race featuring Group A cars! I guess this is a rare achievement in racing.

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Old 28 Jan 2011, 12:49 (Ref:2821782)   #35
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Originally Posted by chunterer View Post
Notice that a Seton Falcon was in the entry for this round and as a Group A entry? Presumably the first EB to race competitively, and I would also guess the only one prior to the Sierra and GTR's being removed at the end of the season?
From what I know the new V8s were entered in a separate class. These were the classes for Bathurst, and presumable also for Sandown:

Class A: Group A, over 1600 cc
Class B: Group A, under 1600 cc
Class C: 1993 cars
Class E: Group E production cars

I also note that Murray Carter was driving a Group E Nissan Pulsar (Sunny for Europeans?), which made me wonder what happened to his RS500?

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Old 28 Jan 2011, 15:02 (Ref:2821851)   #36
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Clarks Shoes Group A Finale
Adelaide Grand Prix Circuit, SA (7-8/11/1992)


Circuit Length: 3.78 km

Race 1 (7/11/1992)
Weather: Sunny
Race Distance: 20 laps

PositionNumberEntrantDriverCarClassRace Time/LapsRetirement CauseFastest TimeQualifying TimeGrid Position
11Winfield RacingJim RichardsNissan Skyline GT-R R32136m58.30s  1m40.02s2
218Shell RacingJohn BoweFord Sierra Cosworth RS500136m58.93s  1m40.12s3
325Benson & Hedges RacingTony LonghurstBMW M3 Evolution236m59.13s  1m40.99s4
411Perkins EngineeringLarry PerkinsHolden Commodore VL (TWR)137m02.54s  1m39.70s1
515Holden Racing TeamTomas MezeraHolden Commodore VP137m16.57s   7
605Mobil 1 RacingPeter BrockHolden Commodore VP137m21.87s   8
74Bob Forbes Corporation Pty LtdRohan OnslowNissan Skyline GT-R R32137m26.15s   9
820Benson & Hedges RacingPaul MorrisBMW M3 E36237m26.62s   12
916Holden Racing TeamBrad JonesHolden Commodore VP137m38.89s  1m41.11s5
1044Kart Mania Indoor Kart RacingStuart McCollHolden Commodore VL (TWR)138m22.27s   15
1152M3 MotorsportJohn CotterBMW M32    21
1217Shell RacingDick JohnsonFord Falcon EB1    31
1377Barbagallo M.S.Alf BarbagalloHolden Commodore VN1    22
1439Protech MicrosystemsChris SmerdonHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1    17
1571 Scott BargwannaToyota Corolla AE92 Hatch3    25
1613Bob Holden MotorsBob HoldenToyota Corolla3    28
1753M3 MotorsportPeter DoulmanBMW M32    18
1875Bob Holden MotorsBrad WrightToyota Corolla AE82 Hatch3    26
DNF8Caltex CXT Racing TeamColin BondFord Sierra Cosworth RS5001 split bore  6
2027Foodtown SupermarketsTerry FinniganHolden Commodore VN1    11
21 Ampol Max 3 RacingBob JonesHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1    13
2242Formula 1 InvestmentsGraham MooreHolden Commodore VN1    14
2314Scotts Transport IndustriesPeter GazzardHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1    19
2441 John TrimboleHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1    29
2524 Mick DonaherHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1    16
2679 Bob TweedieFord Sierra Cosworth RS5001    23
DNF  David SalaToyota Corolla3    27
DNF35Peter Jackson RacingAlan JonesFord Sierra Cosworth RS5001 split bore  10
DNF50Bryan SalaBryan SalaFord Sierra Cosworth RS5001    20
DNF30Peter Jackson RacingGlenn SetonFord Falcon EB1 crashed  30
?27Capri ComponentsLawrie NelsonFord Mustang1    24
ENT2Winfield RacingMark SkaifeNissan Skyline GT-R R321     
ENT22Perkins EngineeringTBAHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1     
ENT23Marathon FoodsJohn EnglishHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1     
ENT40John LeesonJohn LeesonHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1     
ENT45Paul TrevethanPaul TrevethanHolden Commodore VL (HDT)1     
ENT47Roger AlexanderRoger AlexanderToyota Supra Turbo1     
ENT117Shell RacingTBAFord Sierra Cosworth RS5001     

Race 2 (8/11/1992)
Weather: Overcast
Race Distance: 10 laps

PositionNumberEntrantDriverCarClassRace Time/LapsRetirement CauseFastest TimeGrid Position
11Winfield RacingJim RichardsNissan Skyline GT-R R32117m04.83s  1
218Shell RacingJohn BoweFord Sierra Cosworth RS500117m05.32s  2
311Perkins EngineeringLarry PerkinsHolden Commodore VL (TWR)117m07.16s  4
415Holden Racing TeamTomas MezeraHolden Commodore VP117m10.58s  5
516Holden Racing TeamBrad JonesHolden Commodore VP117m11.35s  9
625Benson & Hedges RacingTony LonghurstBMW M3 Evolution217m12.26s  3
74Bob Forbes Corporation Pty LtdRohan OnslowNissan Skyline GT-R R32117m27.42s  7
88Caltex CXT Racing TeamColin BondFord Sierra Cosworth RS500117m28.89s  19
917Shell RacingDick JohnsonFord Falcon EB117m29.64s  12
1020Benson & Hedges RacingPaul MorrisBMW M3 E36217m31.86s  8
 44Kart Mania Indoor Kart RacingStuart McCollHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1   10
 52M3 MotorsportJohn CotterBMW M32   11
 39Protech MicrosystemsChris SmerdonHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1   14
 71 Scott BargwannaToyota Corolla AE92 Hatch3   15
 13Bob Holden MotorsBob HoldenToyota Corolla3   16
 53M3 MotorsportPeter DoulmanBMW M32   17
 75Bob Holden MotorsBrad WrightToyota Corolla AE82 Hatch3   18
 27Foodtown SupermarketsTerry FinniganHolden Commodore VN1   20
 14Scotts Transport IndustriesPeter GazzardHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1   23
 41 John TrimboleHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1   24
 79 Bob TweedieFord Sierra Cosworth RS5001   26
   David SalaToyota Corolla3   27
 35Peter Jackson RacingAlan JonesFord Sierra Cosworth RS5001   28
 50Bryan SalaBryan SalaFord Sierra Cosworth RS5001   29
DNF05Mobil 1 RacingPeter BrockHolden Commodore VP18 lapssteering, crashed 6
DNF?24 Mick DonaherHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1   25
DNF?77Barbagallo M.S.Alf BarbagalloHolden Commodore VN1   13
DNF?  Bob JonesHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1   21
DNF42Formula 1 InvestmentsGraham MooreHolden Commodore VN1 tailshaft 22
DNS30Peter Jackson RacingGlenn SetonFord Falcon EB1 crashed, race 1  
Found this on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NXyvQWaqIM

From the commentary, this is the second heat, explaining why Peter Brock didn't finish! The smoking dayglo/yellow RS500 seen right at the end is the #50 Bryan Sala car.

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Old 28 Jan 2011, 23:49 (Ref:2822088)   #37
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Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
From what I know the new V8s were entered in a separate class. These were the classes for Bathurst, and presumable also for Sandown:

Class A: Group A, over 1600 cc
Class B: Group A, under 1600 cc
Class C: 1993 cars
Class E: Group E production cars

I also note that Murray Carter was driving a Group E Nissan Pulsar (Sunny for Europeans?), which made me wonder what happened to his RS500?

Jesper
I recollect it going to the dealer principal of President Ford, a Carter sponsor.
Graeme Hunt ? Dont remember him racing it, although he was into historic racing at the time.
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Old 29 Jan 2011, 02:30 (Ref:2822125)   #38
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Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
From what I know the new V8s were entered in a separate class. These were the classes for Bathurst, and presumable also for Sandown:

Class A: Group A, over 1600 cc
Class B: Group A, under 1600 cc
Class C: 1993 cars
Class E: Group E production cars

I also note that Murray Carter was driving a Group E Nissan Pulsar (Sunny for Europeans?), which made me wonder what happened to his RS500?

Jesper
The Production cars were only eligible for Sandown, the promoter included them to bolster the grid for the 500 (as he did again in 1993 and i think 1994 too)

As mentioned yes the '93-spec V8s were in a class of their own. Three appeared at Sandown (2xHRT Commodore's & Seton's Falcon), four at Bathurst (Brock) and five at Adelaide (Johnson)
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Old 11 Mar 2011, 05:40 (Ref:2843750)   #39
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Just uploaded Rounds 2 and 3 of the Amscar series. Probably the best Group A Amscar races that I've seen. The Nissans, BMWs and Holdens were all competitive
Round 2 Race 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owMXViKef4Y
Round 2 Race 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIv_vQlPFuQ
Round 3 Race 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UZtK-DQyVk
Round 3 Race 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2UkY4vlvMk
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Old 11 Mar 2011, 18:38 (Ref:2844121)   #40
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To DV_08: A big WOW and thank you for the up-load and links! I've just seen the round 2 first heat and it was quite a battle royale for second to fifth all the way. Eight cars on any grid could and would sound as a downer, but look for yourself..

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Old 14 Mar 2011, 04:12 (Ref:2845297)   #41
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No worries, I've come across some good group A action recently, so I will gradually upload them. I've had a lot of people subscribing to my channel recently so I take it people are enjoying it.
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Old 14 Mar 2011, 19:48 (Ref:2845740)   #42
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No worries, I've come across some good group A action recently, so I will gradually upload them. I've had a lot of people subscribing to my channel recently so I take it people are enjoying it.
A BIG thanks from me too- I have never seen these races before!
Keep them coming please - Subscribed
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Old 21 Oct 2011, 23:56 (Ref:2974990)   #43
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Taking into account this season was another year Gibson Motorsport dominated, I also thought it was a good season follow. I wasn't sure about about going from a single, hour long, race to two half hour races, but in the end, I thought it was the best format to use (when it went to 3-20 min races I thought it was a bit much though). I think because we knew it was the last GrpA season, you just let go of whatever you didn't like about the class and enjoy whatever happenend more (if you know what I mean).

Interesting to note Richards didn't win a heat this season. Had GrpA not already been finished in Europe, instead of piling on the weight, wouldn't it have been easier to ban 4WD from the rules? That's if you think the GTR should've been allowed in the first place!
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Old 29 Apr 2012, 08:36 (Ref:3066810)   #44
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Originally Posted by William Dale Jr View Post
ARDC AMSCAR Series
Round 3 (23/8/1992)


Circuit Length: 1.946 km
Weather: Sunny

Heat 1
Race Distance
: 10 laps

PositionNumberEntrantDriverCarClassRace Time/LapsRetirement CauseFastest TimeGrid PositionQualifying Time
11Winfield RacingJim RichardsNissan Skyline GT-R R321   20m51.02s
22Winfield RacingMark SkaifeNissan Skyline GT-R R321   10m50.88s
34Bob Forbes Corporation P/LMark GibbsNissan Skyline GT-R R321   60m51.66s
425Benson & Hedges RacingTony LonghurstBMW M3 Evolution2   30m51.20s
523Benson & Hedges RacingPaul MorrisBMW M3 Evolution2   50m51.44s
68Caltex CXT Race TeamColin BondFord Sierra Cosworth RS5001   40m51.28s
721Bob Forbes Corporation P/LRohan OnslowHolden Commodore VN1   70m53.10s
824 Michael DonaherHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1   80m54.24s
988Adrian John BrookePeter BrettToyota Corolla39 laps  100m59.50s
1077Bob Holden MotorsBen RanfordToyota Corolla AE86 Liftback39 laps  90m58.94s
1179 Ken TalbertToyota Corolla39 laps  111m02.06s

Heat 2
Race Distance
: 10 laps

PositionNumberEntrantDriverCarClassRace Time/LapsRetirement CauseFastest TimeGrid Position
11Winfield RacingJim RichardsNissan Skyline GT-R R321   2
22Winfield RacingMark SkaifeNissan Skyline GT-R R321   1
323Benson & Hedges RacingPaul MorrisBMW M3 Evolution2   5
48Caltex CXT Race TeamColin BondFord Sierra Cosworth RS5001   4
524 Michael DonaherHolden Commodore VL (TWR)1   8
625Benson & Hedges RacingTony LonghurstBMW M3 Evolution2   3
721Bob Forbes Corporation P/LRohan OnslowHolden Commodore VN1   7
877Bob Holden MotorsBen RanfordToyota Corolla AE86 Liftback39 laps  9
988Adrian John BrookePeter BrettToyota Corolla39 laps  10
1079 Ken TalbertToyota Corolla38 laps  11
DNF4Bob Forbes Corporation P/LMark GibbsNissan Skyline GT-R R3210 lapsoil cooler 6

Did any other cars run at this meeting? The Mal Rea Corolla Sprinter passed scrutineering.
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Old 29 Aug 2013, 07:35 (Ref:3295538)   #45
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Does anyone have any further information on the parity rule changes and freedoms that were applied for 1992?
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Old 8 Sep 2014, 12:49 (Ref:3451230)   #46
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Does anyone have any further information on the parity rule changes and freedoms that were applied for 1992?
From memory:

* The Sierra's and Commodore's were restricted to a maximum of 7,500 rpm. I think (not 100% sure) their weight remained the same as 1991. For the Holden brigade it meant a lot less engines were lost as they weren't being revved into oblivion, though being a heavy 4-door family car they still chewed tyres in the sprint races. For the Sierra's this was actually a god send. Dick Johnson claimed that it meant they could tune the engines more for torque than horsepower and both he and John Bowe claimed it made the cars far more drivable than before. They actually proved even quicker than before with Bowe setting a number of lap records in his Shell Sierra during the ATCC, though with their skinny rear tyres they also had trouble making tyres last.

* The BMW M3 Evo had an extra 20 or 40kg of weight added. Neither Frank Gardner or Tony Longhurst were happy about it, but lived with it (more than they would the rev-limiter in 1993). The Bimmer's were still tough to beat at tracks like Amaroo and Lakeside, and Tony even managed to get his into the top 10 shootout at Bathurst (though he admitted to getting a tow from Perkins which helped)

Then there were the GT-R's.........

After their domination of 1991, CAMS imposed an extra 50kg of weight to the cars, bringing them up to 1400kg. At the Winfield Triple Challenge at Eastern Creek before the ATCC, they were slower than the Shell and Peter Jackson Sierra's in qualifying, but they had the measure of the Shell cars in the races (Glenn Seton cleaned up and won both races). When talking to Darrell Eastlake and Alan Jones on racecam during the first race at EC, Jim Richards had a not so subtle dig at CAMS for making the cars so slow.....though not surprisingly AJ didn't show much sympathy lol.

Then after the Winton round of the ATCC after the Nissan's had again proved the cars to beat, CAMS added another 100kg which brought them up to 1500. This was before the Lakeside round of the series where neither Skaife nor Richards could crack the top 10 in qualifying and accusations of sandbagging were flying thick and fast (they proved they were still quick enough in the races though with Jim finishing the round in 2nd and Mark in 5th).....and Bob Forbes was told to leave his GIO GT-R at home and instead bring their VN Commodore for Mark Gibbs to race. CAMS also mandated the use of pop-off valves for the cars (the same FIA units used in F1 in 1987 and 1988). This allegedly brought them down from about 630+ hp in 1991 to 450 hp in 1992. Yeah, right.

The weight I'm not disputing. The power figures I am because Fred Gibson himself has admitted to it being fudged. CAMS actually had no idea how to work the pop-off valves and Fred, being the nice guy that he is, kindly offered to show them how they worked, he even had his team build a rig to test that they were working properly. What he didn't tell CAMS though was that he had the team set the rig to show exactly what CAMS wanted to see. So, as far as CAMS knew the GT-R's only had 450 hp on tap in 1992. Some very gullible people at CAMS......

Come Bathurst, IMO the GT-R's had at least 600 hp to play with. How else does that explain how Skaife topped the times in official qualifying with a 2:13.8 lap that was only one second slower than his 1991 pre-shootout time? And he did this in a car that weighed 150 kg more and supposedly had around 180 hp less. Even allowing for the cars 4WD advantage, there is no way they should have lapped Mt Panorama as quick as they did in the specification the car allegedly had. Maybe laps in the 2:16's, but not 2:13's.

Also, early in the ATCC when they 'only' had 450 hp and 1400 kg, the Nissan's were blown off by the Sierra's and faster Commodore's on the straights at Sandown and Symmons Plains. Yet at Bathurst with an extra 100 kg added to the cars and the horsepower figure still saying 450, the Commodore's presented no problems, and the cars were able to hold or even beat Dick's Sierra on both Mountain and Conrod Straight's.

CAMS were hookwinked, simple as that.

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Old 16 Sep 2014, 19:02 (Ref:3454035)   #47
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Small Japanese Gp A cars

Slightly off topic but I am hoping to find a home for a few parts I received in a consignment of stuff from Asia. I suspect they are from a small class Japanese Gp A car but not sure. I thought maybe some of you Aussies might be able to help....alex.
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Old 23 Mar 2017, 05:44 (Ref:3720817)   #48
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1992 - Indy

Dragging up an old thread here - I am looking for information on the Group A participation at Indy 1992 on the Gold Coast. Until a couple of days ago I was unaware that one of my cars - the ex Willmington Supra - was at the carnival March 21/22. It isn't in the log book, and I don't seem to have anything in any of my references that discuss it. I guess being a 'support category' to the main race it doesn't rate a separate mention. Does anyone have the results?

John
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Old 23 Mar 2017, 05:49 (Ref:3720818)   #49
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DAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I believe that event wasn't held under a CAMS permit and that would explain the absence of a log book mention. Also, there were no Touring Car races on the program, but there was a class that more or less approximated Sports Sedan/GT.
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Old 23 Mar 2017, 06:18 (Ref:3720819)   #50
ART Racing
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Toowoomba, QLD
Posts: 65
ART Racing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Group A at Indy

Thanks Dave, was wondering whether that was the case noting the parked car looks like a Mazda RX-7 Sports Sedan (Dick ??? on the windscreen banner).
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