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Old 20 Sep 2019, 05:35 (Ref:3929019)   #3651
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I don't know how I feel about the new aero changes, Let me explain why.

When the problems of overtaking first raised it's ugly head we were told by the person now heading the changes (Sorry but I can't remember his name) that all that could be done was done and DRS was the definitive answer. Some years later he is put in charge of the aero 2021 changes and says he has now found the answer and can everyone stand up and cheer. maybe I am wearing my tinfoil hat but just maybe he was dancing to someone's tune all those years ago and had no intention of coming up with an answer that actually worked. A very strange situation indeed.
I know what you mean Casper.

If you look at the original OWG (Overtaking working group) summary the new 2021 initiative looks like an exact repeat with a few minor details modified:

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/overtaking.html

Overtaking, Applying science and commonsense

Dumped Nick Wirth's contribution, replaced Pat Symonds, Rory Byrne, Paddy Lowe with umm Pat Symonds, Ross Brawn, and Nicholas Tombazis and just re-issued what didn't work with a little ground effect thrown in, all based on CFD and very little else.

Don't worry it will all be fine, no really!
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 07:57 (Ref:3929029)   #3652
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I just hope ground effect comes in, that would really help overtaking
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 10:30 (Ref:3929055)   #3653
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I just hope ground effect comes in, that would really help overtaking
They have reduced the wheelbase of the cars and the underfloor area of the cars while increasing the size of the rear wing and pushing the wider front wing further out the front of the cars.

All not good for relying on ground effect!
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 11:38 (Ref:3929066)   #3654
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Instead of grid penalties, F1 are looking at using ballast instead.

https://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/146111
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 12:36 (Ref:3929078)   #3655
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Maybe they could take weight out of the car if they use the engine for more than 5 races and for each race beyond five they could remove weight each time it ran. just think of the possibilities, a driver is two points in front at the last race so they drag out a motor that has 5+ races on it to remove weight in an effort to win. That sounds just as good as the idea to add weight or have I missed something. I will leave the room now.
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 13:10 (Ref:3929086)   #3656
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Instead of grid penalties, F1 are looking at using ballast instead.

https://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/146111
I say that proposal is them trying to treat the symptom and not the problem. Quote from article in which Kvyat speaks the truth IMHO...

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Ballast has also been described as a "bandage" for F1's real problems by Toro Rosso driver Daniil Kvyat.

"I just think there shouldn't be penalties," said Kvyat.

"Maybe now if they see people are struggling with three engines per year, maybe increase this to five, let's say. "OK, teams worked for three, but no one will get penalties.
I think if we can't do as he suggests, to just leave it as is.

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Old 20 Sep 2019, 13:24 (Ref:3929090)   #3657
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I say that proposal is them trying to treat the symptom and not the problem. Quote from article in which Kvyat speaks the truth IMHO...

Richard
Isn't that just like F1. Attempting to treat the symptom and not the cause and wondering why that never works.
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 14:23 (Ref:3929096)   #3658
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The problem is teams aren’t keeping to that limit, so what’s the point of it?
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 15:15 (Ref:3929104)   #3659
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Instead of grid penalties, F1 are looking at using ballast instead.

https://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/146111
I cant wait to hear the commentators explain this to the audience.

Really its only the engine manu teams which will be able to afford using extra engines...i say tax them through the nose for it and redistribute the money to their customers.

The sport needs to turn the big teams desire to buy championships to the advantage of the smaller teams imo.
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 19:57 (Ref:3929139)   #3660
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I am of two minds on this...

1. Leave it just as is. Regarding fan complaints (egged on by the press)... It is a penalty. People are not supposed to like it. Deal with it. I mostly think people have adjusted to this.

2. The entire thing is dumb. While in a perfect world, it's about enforcing longevity of power units. In reality it's mostly about manufactures such as Honda and Renault trying to catch up with Mercedes and Ferrari and being penalized for it. We have already scrapped the oppressive token system that created a negative feedback loop and prevented "catching up". I say... just relax the longevity requirements.

What would not be fair about relaxing the requirements is that in general Mercedes is doing better than others. So they will (rightly) claim they have left power on the table to meet the desired longevity. So if they do anything, then the FIA can set a threshold of some percentage value less than the best of the field. Then those that have not gotten within that band, have reduced longevity requirements. Winning races would also knock you out of that special classification. This is not a novel idea. I have seen others suggest pretty much the same idea.

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Old 20 Sep 2019, 20:08 (Ref:3929141)   #3661
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I cant wait to hear the commentators explain this to the audience.

Really its only the engine manu teams which will be able to afford using extra engines...i say tax them through the nose for it and redistribute the money to their customers.

The sport needs to turn the big teams desire to buy championships to the advantage of the smaller teams imo.
I don't see the big teams giving up any advantage they can get, over their rivals and the smaller teams.

Why not introduce an engine manufacturers' championship?
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Old 21 Sep 2019, 08:30 (Ref:3929214)   #3662
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Could a reduction to the fuel flow for replacement power units be used?


As an old power unit is generally weaker than a new one then it would help to level out the performance advantage of the replacement unit.


I know it would take a little explanation to the viewing public but would get rid of grid drops.
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Old 25 Sep 2019, 08:43 (Ref:3930032)   #3663
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The Fat Controller's latest stupid idea: Reverse grids

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...rse-grid-races
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Old 25 Sep 2019, 09:07 (Ref:3930035)   #3664
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The Fat Controller's latest stupid idea: Reverse grids

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...rse-grid-races
I have to agree with Finger Boy.
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Old 25 Sep 2019, 13:39 (Ref:3930060)   #3665
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Reverse grids have always been avoided in F1 for the simple reason that it makes a mockery of the pinnacle of motorsport. No wonder Vettel is against it
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Old 25 Sep 2019, 14:21 (Ref:3930063)   #3666
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By the same token, allowing a team to spend 200-300 million more then their opponents makes a mockery of the word competition.

With so many races in the calendar and with more to come i see many reasons to upset the apple cart for just a couple of those quali sessions a season. A variety of challenges for a variety of circuits.

besides within a dozen laps, that Merc and Ferrari will easily be able to make their way back up the grid...such is their advantage.

Relax the engine rules and need to conserve fuel and tires by giving us a sprint race session... honestly it sounds excellent to me and makes me more willing to pay the price tag to attend a saturday session.

Anyways, lets see it in action before judging.
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Old 25 Sep 2019, 19:11 (Ref:3930100)   #3667
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By the same token, allowing a team to spend 200-300 million more then their opponents makes a mockery of the word competition.

With so many races in the calendar and with more to come i see many reasons to upset the apple cart for just a couple of those quali sessions a season. A variety of challenges for a variety of circuits.

besides within a dozen laps, that Merc and Ferrari will easily be able to make their way back up the grid...such is their advantage.

Relax the engine rules and need to conserve fuel and tires by giving us a sprint race session... honestly it sounds excellent to me and makes me more willing to pay the price tag to attend a saturday session.

Anyways, lets see it in action before judging.
Just sounds like a gimmick, designed to boost TV viewing figures, which are starting to decline because F1 is now behind a pay wall. Once the novelty wears off and TV viewing figures decline even further, what will be the next gimmick F1 will come up with?
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Old 25 Sep 2019, 19:41 (Ref:3930108)   #3668
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It seems odd to me that given the (expected) dramatic 2021 changes, why are they looking to introduce a number of things in 2020? Especially gimmicky things. Reverse order grids is sort of deep into the gimmick bucket.

To be honest, while I am generally not a fan of the idea, I would be curious to see it in action.

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Old 25 Sep 2019, 19:47 (Ref:3930110)   #3669
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Once the novelty wears off and TV viewing figures decline even further, what will be the next gimmick F1 will come up with?
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Old 27 Sep 2019, 07:48 (Ref:3930329)   #3670
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It seems odd to me that given the (expected) dramatic 2021 changes, why are they looking to introduce a number of things in 2020? Especially gimmicky things. Reverse order grids is sort of deep into the gimmick bucket.

To be honest, while I am generally not a fan of the idea, I would be curious to see it in action.

Richard
I can't see what the fuss is, sprintcars have always run the quickest at the rear. Ross Brawn explained that they would like to see some different things tried before 2021 and my interpretation of that was if the championship is settled early this year as it seems there may be an opportunity to do it this year.
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Old 27 Sep 2019, 07:49 (Ref:3930330)   #3671
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I agree with the drivers, there's no need to put in gimmicks like reversed grids. Sort out the racing
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Old 27 Sep 2019, 07:50 (Ref:3930331)   #3672
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I agree with the drivers, there's no need to put in gimmicks like reversed grids. Sort out the racing
It would feed the desire to see Williams running at the front.
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Old 27 Sep 2019, 10:37 (Ref:3930355)   #3673
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I can't see what the fuss is, sprintcars have always run the quickest at the rear. Ross Brawn explained that they would like to see some different things tried before 2021 and my interpretation of that was if the championship is settled early this year as it seems there may be an opportunity to do it this year.
They can't mess with things this year can they? Even if the Championship winner is guaranteed the rest of the finishing order won't be...
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Old 27 Sep 2019, 13:13 (Ref:3930384)   #3674
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I sort of like the idea of sprint race on Saturday. That is where experiments like reverse order, etc. can be tried. Those would not be classified as F1 races for points, etc. I also think I suggested awhile back of teams providing those seats to reserve drivers. The primary drivers would not be eligible.

The biggest issue with this is the cost and impact to engine mileage. If you destroy a race chassis on Saturday, how does that impact qualifying for Sunday race, etc. You also can't expect to use the existing power units due to planned out mileage allocation.

Regardless of what you do... it will increase cost. But lets assume they are OK with costs increases. I would do one car/driver per team. The chassis would be an extra (not Sunday cars for the two primary drivers). Power unit would also be outside of the Sunday car/driver allocation. No qualification for those races. Race order might be reverse prior race results or something like that. In the end... it would cost extra. Three chassis instead of two, extra power units, probably extra staff to manage the Saturday race. The list goes on. So I doubt anything like this would happen.

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Old 27 Sep 2019, 14:39 (Ref:3930408)   #3675
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It would feed the desire to see Williams running at the front.


Not really, as people want them to be more competitive, not given the front like that
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