Racing Abroad - Letter of Authority

[DaveGT6]

I have raced abroad for years on a Nat A licence without problems. I note from the Masters bulletin that there may be a new requirement to have a letter of authority from the MSA

I quote:

1.4 – COMPETITOR ELIGIBILITY. Changes to Article 18 of the FIA International Sporting Code over the winter means that all drivers, when competing outside the country of their issuing ASN, MUST be accompanied by a letter of authority from their ASN. Please note – this is a big change, do not leave theUK (or your country) to race, without a letter from the MSA (or your own ASN).

Do we have anyone on here from the MSA who can verify the requirement and explain how we go about obtaining such a letter?

Thanks

[Peter Mallett]

if that's what Masters are saying then I guess we need to request the letter. Interesting development because it appears to contradict the TFEU.

[JimW]

Why not ask the MSA licencing department - they don't bite! (01753 681736)

Regards

Jim

[kjw]

I have just spoken to the MSA and they are aware of it and were very helpful.

They will email a copy letter and send a hard copy in the post. The letter of authority is good for one year.

[Cliff Ryan]

Originally Posted by kjw

I have just spoken to the MSA and they are aware of it and were very helpful.

They will email a copy letter and send a hard copy in the post. The letter of authority is good for one year.

Same here, just spoke to Stuart who is getting loads of phone calls, all you need to quote is your license number and its sorted.

[HRSTR5]

In Australia last year the MSA Visa letter coupled with the International Historic Licence was sufficient to race at Phillip Island Classic, but it seems CAMS have interpreted the changes differently. This year they now require you to apply for a Foreign Participation Visa, oh and they relieve you of some of your 'hard-earned' to issue it. Hopefully the Europeans don't cotton to that ...

[Rudernst]

I have by now several emails from the UK organisers and clubs that I race with to obtain a letter of authority.

To get that I called the German ASN (the DMSB), they point blank refused to issue one and suggested that I look at the back of my (international) license where the authorisation to race internationally is printed on.

When I forwarded them yet another mail (from HFO for FIA championship no less) the came back with an email to me and HFO and explained their position. It seems that they have done their homework and simply dont want to issue 20.000 letters for no good reason.

It seems that the British MSA made their life and the life of British racers unnecessaryly diffucult by omittting to print the authorisation to race internationally directly onto the license. This omission actually makes the concept of an internnational license absurd. I would suggest that the Brits pressure the MSA to rethink the wording of their licenses for 2013.

I have started to forward that mail from the German ASN to the organisations that I race with to avoid needless aggravation when signing in.

If You read this and are not a Brit, check Your license as You might not need a letter as many other ASNs have done the same as the Germans.
DISREGARD uninformed emails then !

That just leaves the question why the ISC had to create the problem in the first place. Why would any racer need an authority to race abroad in todays world ? What exactly is abroad in united Europe anyway ? Is this requirement really legal in Europe and would it stand challenge in the European court ? And why can the granting of an international license by an ASN not be automatically be accepted as the permission to race abroad ?

A further pet hate of mine:
Why had the ISC ban racers from scoring points in foreign National Championships ? Why can the organiser of a championship not decide themselves if they want to allow invited participants to score points ?

Angry from Hamburg
Rudolf


Here is what the DMSB wrote to me and HFO:

Dear all,
The ISC (art. 18) indicate the following:

“Competitors and drivers who wish to take part in a national competition organised abroad can only do so with the approval of their own ASN.
This authorisation shall be given by the ASN concerned in such form as they might deem convenient, by stamping the entry form, issuing the competitor and/or driver a special permit for a specific event, or a more general permit (for one or several countries, for a given period or for the whole period of validity of the licence concerned).”

The DMSB granted on every International License the Starting Permission for automobile sport competitions abroad(according art. 17, 18 and 70 ISC). That permanent general permission is located on the backside of the DMSB license, as following (see also appendix).

„Starting-Permission The int. Licence includes a Starting-Permission (Art. 70 ISG) for all events
in accordance with Art. 17 ISG. The Nat. A-licence includes a Starting-Permission (Art. 70 ISG)
for all events in accordance with Art. 18 ISG.”

Therefore an additional authorization is not necessary!

Yours sincerely
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Michael Günther
Koordination Automobilsport
Deutscher Motor Sport Bund e.V.
Hahnstraße 70

[Peter Mallett]

I stand to be corrected but under EU legislation, unless the rule applies to all countries then it can't be imposed. Ergo if you have an international license then presumably you don't need the letter, as you say. However if like many, you race on a national license, then the EU rule still applies but the license doesn't carry the visa.

The MSA has already sent my letter. I gave up the international license a few years ago.

[terence]

Rudy,I had a similar conversation with the MSA,merely asking the question that as I have always had an International Licence,why should I need a letter,and also why have the MSA virtually negated the need for such a licence?
Quite simply, there was no suitable answer despite the extra cost involved for my licence,all I got was,You'll have to ask the licencing authority.!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Rudy,I had a similar conversation with the MSA,merely asking the question that as I have always had an International Licence,why should I need a letter,and also why have the MSA virtually negated the need for such a licence?
Quite simply, there was no suitable answer despite the extra cost involved for my licence,all I got was,You'll have to ask the licencing authority.!!!!!!!!!!!

Örm...
The MSA ARE the licensig authority for You Brits.
They have just not done their homework properly and now need to fix that mistake with these letters.
Buuuuut: Its asking very much of them to admit that.

On the other hand: The ISC makes things ever more complicated for no good reason. This is the unoffical comment from the Germans..

In the end: These people represent us both MSA and ISC: We need to make our opinion felt.

Rudolf

[terence]

I totally agree,after all,as you say,they are our clubs. Not as if the MSA make any money by issuing these letters. Very difficult to understand the reasoning behind it all!

[R D P]

Rudolf, thank you for taking the time and check that issue for the Germans !
Unbelievably, one point which really seems to be less bureacratic over here!
Now, if we could just get an owner change written into the HTP instead of having to get a new one after buying a car...but I am jumping topics...

Cheers,
Ralf

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I totally agree,after all,as you say,they are our clubs. Not as if the MSA make any money by issuing these letters. Very difficult to understand the reasoning behind it all!

It seems that the MSA will try to clear this up by way of a statement that might put an end to the letter business.
I have heard something to that effect but of course I am not a spokesperson for the MSA.
Would be nice for the Brits if that worked out.

I distributed the mail from the German DMSB to the organisations that I race with to avoid getting into problems during the season when signing in early Saturday morning when there is nothing to be done but yell at each other... (shouting matches rarely achieve anything)
The feedback was positive and I got some people thinking....

Rudolf

[Marcus Mussa]

My Monaco licence allows me to race in all races listed in the FIA calendar - however I don't think this includes "club" events in the UK. I had to get one of these letters to race in South Africa this year.
The points situation is a nuisance, maybe I have to become a professional driver. I shall have to pay myself to drive and send my contract to the Contract Recognition board perhaps?
Years ago I had to race under a French licence to earn points in a French championship, then they cancelled that rule under EU competition rules (i.e. anybody from the EU enjoys equal benefits inside the EU). I cannot understand why it has changed yet again.

[JasperClan]

It may have been a mistake by the MSA but you can't fault their service in providing the necessary paperwork. One phone call, knew exactly what was required and an electronic copy sent with a hard copy in the post. Total time taken 2 minutes and that included telephone queuing.

Pete Richards

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by JasperClan

It may have been a mistake by the MSA but you can't fault their service in providing the necessary paperwork. One phone call, knew exactly what was required and an electronic copy sent with a hard copy in the post. Total time taken 2 minutes and that included telephone queuing.

Pete Richards

The licence team can't be faulted IMO!

[johngee]

Unfortunately, the licencing department of the MSA went through a bit of a 'purple patch' in the past and that reputation takes a while to be forgotten. The current 'customer service' is first class and should be applauded.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by JasperClan

It may have been a mistake by the MSA but you can't fault their service in providing the necessary paperwork. One phone call, knew exactly what was required and an electronic copy sent with a hard copy in the post. Total time taken 2 minutes and that included telephone queuing.

Pete Richards

All I did was send an e mail. Job "jobbed" as they say. It is a shame that it is necessary though.

[terence]

Originally Posted by johngee

Unfortunately, the licencing department of the MSA went through a bit of a 'purple patch' in the past and that reputation takes a while to be forgotten. The current 'customer service' is first class and should be applauded.

No complaints there John. After a conversation with the MSA this morning,I have been informed that the issue regarding International Licences is being discussed,doubt as there will be any change for non international grades though.

[356sc]

Ok, it is stupid question time!!

Sadly I have not got my licence with me so can't see what it printed on the back of it.....

If you hold a UK International Licence do you still need to apply for the letter of authority?

[terence]

At the moment,yes.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by 356sc

Ok, it is stupid question time!!

Sadly I have not got my licence with me so can't see what it printed on the back of it.....

If you hold a UK International Licence do you still need to apply for the letter of authority?

Get one anyway just to be doubly sure. It didn't occur to me to ask when I phoned MSA, but it is so painless to get the letter. One short phone call. Then there is no doubt that you comply!

[356sc]

thanks Gents!

[JasperClan]

Does anyone know how this would effect someone holding a Belgian International C Licence which states 'Permanent participation approval, valid for all appropriate international FIA calendar events'

From previous comments I take it that a Letter of authority would be required to compete in other EU country National events.

Pete Richards

[terence]

Did mean to say a few days ago that as far as International Licence's are concerned,the MSA are currently having discussions as to Art 70 IMS,we will know the outcome soon enough.