Racing Abroad - Letter of Authority

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by JasperClan

Does anyone know how this would effect someone holding a Belgian International C Licence which states 'Permanent participation approval, valid for all appropriate international FIA calendar events'

From previous comments I take it that a Letter of authority would be required to compete in other EU country National events.

Pete Richards

Well,
it took me some time to understand this:
It took even longer to make m ASN understand every detail.

An International License (such as Your C-License) is ONLY ONE of the condtions that You need to go racing outside of Your home country.

You still need - in addtion to Your international license - a permit from Your Belgian ASN.
For international events You need a permit IN ACCORDANCE WITH ARTICLE 17 of the ISC.
In many cases this permit is printed on the back of an international license, the Germans do that.
You dont need a such permit if You are a professional racer, racing in Europe. I just love this, the FIA had to allow this to avoid falling foul of European labour laws. This shows how close to the wind of European citicens rights they are sailing.

For national events You would need a permit in accordance with Article 18 of the ISC.
In addition, the national event that You want to enter needs to inscribed on the FIA calendar OR the promoter must have applied to their national ASN to be allowed to accepts international entries.
If they have not You CANT ENTER with any kind of license or permit as a foreigner. Prescott hillclimb of th BOC is such an event.
The HSCC have the permit to accept international entries.

The sporting organisations try to keep national championships local and clean apparently to avoid locals youths getting swamped.

I hate all this unnecessary red tape und think that in Europe I should be allowed to race where I want.

The British MSA should realise that this legislation potentially damages the British Motorsport Industry and the companies that provide services to foreigners like me.

I have made the German ISN realise that historic racing is different and that my racing Historc races in Britain will stall some youngsters potential F1 career.


These people in the FIA are elected and supported by us.
We need to make them understand what we want and not dance desperately to their tune.

The German ISN has taken its time to realise that I need a letter (Artcle 18) as well because the German IC license mentions only Article 17.
They are still struggling with the wording.

I HATE THIS MADNESS, FREE EUROPEAN RACING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rudolf

[midgetman]

Isn't this why NEAFP events were brought in? National Events with Authorised Foreign Participation.

I had a customer in today who has a UK licence and a German Licence because he reckons he can only enter ONE "foreign" event on his UK licence per year, NEAFP or not.

Now, when I started racing I am sure I had to declare that I did NOT hold a licence issued by any other ASN, has that changed or is my memory just faulty?

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by JasperClan

Does anyone know how this would effect someone holding a Belgian International C Licence which states 'Permanent participation approval, valid for all appropriate international FIA calendar events'

From previous comments I take it that a Letter of authority would be required to compete in other EU country National events.

Pete Richards

Correct.

If it's an internationally permitted event he wouldn't need the permission of the ASN but he will for a National level event regardless of the grade of his licence.

[Piglet]

As I understand it, the FIA have brought in the requirement that competitors in National permitted events that are NEAFP inscribed require the starting permission of their ASN if that event is outside the area of their ASN. The Article does not apply to internationally permitted (ie FIA events).

The MSA and other ASN's have no option but to comply and organising clubs will have no option but to enforce the new Article.

I believe the change came in during January so the MSA would have formalised the form of licence for this year, presumably they'll include the starting permission as standard in another year (if the requirement stays the same).

Not much point blaming the MSA - it's presumably costing them a fortune in resources to deal with the issue....

[Jan Biekens]

Originally Posted by JasperClan

Does anyone know how this would effect someone holding a Belgian International C Licence which states 'Permanent participation approval, valid for all appropriate international FIA calendar events'

From previous comments I take it that a Letter of authority would be required to compete in other EU country National events.

Pete Richards

That's true Pete. I'm holder of an International license H1 issued by the RACB. They very quickly responded with an authorisation letter but it was wrong as you can read what the HSCC mailed me :
Unfortunately they have not quite understood the authorisatin the FIA are seeking (they are not alone and it is confusing) We are seeking their authorisation for you to compete in registered National Events with Approved Foreign Participation which are subject to Article 18 of the International Sporting Code. The permission they have granted is only for events run on an International Permit (and is subject to Article 70).
I'm still waiting for the letter with the right wording and hope it will be there before Donington next week. It's very rare that we are competing with 5 Stanguellini's FJ in the UK and it would be a shame if this coudn't happen because of a few misspelled words.

[delta]

Do you know what,the blooming world's gone mad!!!!. F.F.Sake you have an international licence. Whats the point!!!!!!!!!!

[terence]

Originally Posted by delta

Do you know what,the blooming world's gone mad!!!!. F.F.Sake you have an international licence. Whats the point!!!!!!!!!!

Just about the exact same words I spoke to the MSA Licencing Department.

[Piglet]

...tell the FIA that...no point whining at your ASN...

[Moosehead]

Ridiculous situation. I remember years ago it was a pain having to obtain an International licence just to do a foreign clubbie event, then it all went nice and simple with the NEAFP - just turn up and show normal licence and now its turned into a farce. Jeez!!

[JasperClan]

My Belgian friend went to the RACB offices this morning to enquire about a Letter of Authority. Guess what, they were extremely busy dealing with the very high number of requests already received and they will post it to him when it is ready.

Interestingly they asked him for what event he required it for in order to check that the event was authorised.

Pete Richards

[terence]

I think we need a Europe wide petition starting up.What a totally senseless situation to have created,could liken it to the 'Five Year' HTPs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[grantp]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I think we need a Europe wide petition starting up.What a totally senseless situation to have created,could liken it to the 'Five Year' HTPs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The thing about red tape is that cutting up usually means it just spreads about on the wind of change. Destruction requires incineration. Something nuclear should do the trick.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Piglet

...tell the FIA that...no point whining at your ASN...

Oh but surely the MSA is our best channel for applying pressure to the FIA. If sufficient disquiet is felt by the MSA (and assuming that what is reported is as daft as it seems) it will quickly be seen as something which the MSA needs to have sorted for their members (and a quieter life in the office. )

Regards

Jim

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by JimW

Oh but surely the MSA is our best channel for applying pressure to the FIA. If sufficient disquiet is felt by the MSA (and assuming that what is reported is as daft as it seems) it will quickly be seen as something which the MSA needs to have sorted for their members (and a quieter life in the office. )

Regards

Jim

Don't be daft, they'll just put a charge on it!!!!!!!

Since when did the MSA do anything for the great unwashed? We are just there to provide funds for their pet projects and keep them employed.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by JimW

Oh but surely the MSA is our best channel for applying pressure to the FIA. If sufficient disquiet is felt by the MSA (and assuming that what is reported is as daft as it seems) it will quickly be seen as something which the MSA needs to have sorted for their members (and a quieter life in the office. )

Regards

Jim

Dealt with in a constructive manner then yes I'd agree, done in a heated and grumpy conversation with someone in the licensing dept probably isn't going to help....I suspect the bods in the licensing department aren't terribly chuffed with the situation as it is!

I imagine that next year the starting permission will be included on the licence so there there will be no need for an additional letter it just seems to have come in too late to be added to the licence blank.

[Jan Biekens]

Got my letter yesterday and after the HSCC mailed me that it was perfect now, I opened a bottle of champagne. What a party we had, it was a greater feeling then winning the Lurani series A. Maybe I should retire soon from racing because what can you achieve more then having the sight of a Letter of Authority rolling out of your printer.

[Mike Bell]

[terence]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Dealt with in a constructive manner then yes I'd agree, done in a heated and grumpy conversation with someone in the licensing dept probably isn't going to help....I suspect the bods in the licensing department aren't terribly chuffed with the situation as it is!

I imagine that next year the starting permission will be included on the licence so there there will be no need for an additional letter it just seems to have come in too late to be added to the licence blank.

Thats exactly the sort of conversation I did have,the poor sod I spoke to seemed almost sorry for those with Int Licences.

[Duddha]

As an event coordinator, it is even worse...

The French says that you don't need it and the FIA says the opposite.

And even the guys from the French federation don't know what to say.........

[zefarelly]

Is this why last years license had EU on it and this years doesn't? (got mine yesterday are finally being bothered to sign/post the form )

better get on thephone then, Spa in June, what else are they going to change . . .

[Peter Mallett]

It is a bit confusing, but I guess that's why the EU markings have gone. When one considers the EU Treaty regs, it seems daft that this should suddenly be applied. Next we'll see the borders re-erected between France and Belgium, especially if France pulls out of the Schengen agreement.

[zefarelly]

Wouldn't life be so much easier if the FiA dissapeared up its own ar53 and actually stayed there?

[Brian A]

Just to confirm some of the earlier messages about the excellent efficiency of the MSA licensing dept. I sent of a simple email to them requesting the Authorisation Letter and received one back by return.

I was most impressed, they really do have their act together on this front.

[delta]

Phone call took less than 10 sec's.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

Wouldn't life be so much easier if the FiA dissapeared up its own ar53 and actually stayed there?

Or...and this may be a LITTLE LEFT FIELD...so DO FORGIVE ME COLNBROOK IF THIS SEEMS TOO MUCH ....BUT...IF IT WAS DOWN TO ME AT THE MSA I WOULD..........

1 As I have a database....it has EVERY licence on it that I have issued as the governing body of Motorsport, each ;icenec has a unique licence number ..so......

2 As because of timings or what have you I now have the world and his wife ringing me every day and I am having to produce AD HOC letters and spend hours on end saying the same thing on the phone I would.............

3 Do a mail merge with the database of the licences and send out the blanket letter to the licences holders with a covering "you may need this if you are going to race abroad" explaining letter and then.......

4 My telephone line is no longer hot, My licence department (all three of them) isnt over heated and stressed...EVERY licence holder knows the score and next year ...

5 I will put it on the licence

in the words of that meercat ......simples