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Old 30 Sep 2010, 18:56 (Ref:2767369)   #51
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Originally Posted by bella View Post
you're not from litespeed are you? because there's noone else who could possibly be bitter or displeased at how fernandes and his team have approached f1...
Not in the least. They have no business whatsoever branding their team Lotus, having no history being associated with Team Lotus nor Group lotus. Air Aisa F1, One Malaysia F1 or whatever rubbish they could have come up with would have been totally appropriate. Litespeed doing the same thing would have generated the same reaction and opinion from me.

This is just as valid as HRT picking up and borrowing/buying the rights to Brabham F1 or Virgin calling themselves Tyrrell racing.

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Old 30 Sep 2010, 20:33 (Ref:2767421)   #52
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Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1 View Post
Not in the least. They have no business whatsoever branding their team Lotus, having no history being associated with Team Lotus nor Group lotus. Air Aisa F1, One Malaysia F1 or whatever rubbish they could have come up with would have been totally appropriate. Litespeed doing the same thing would have generated the same reaction and opinion from me.

This is just as valid as HRT picking up and borrowing/buying the rights to Brabham F1 or Virgin calling themselves Tyrrell racing.

signed;
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Oh noes, a Senna/Team Lotus "fan" disapproves!

Guess the Chapman family blessing doesn't account for anything then.
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Old 30 Sep 2010, 20:36 (Ref:2767422)   #53
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Does it even matter if the Chapman family is blessing it? Long live capitalism!
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Old 30 Sep 2010, 20:41 (Ref:2767428)   #54
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Does it even matter if the Chapman family is blessing it? Long live capitalism!
I wouldn't have thought it would make any difference, the Lotus name is owned by Group Lotus PLC.
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Old 30 Sep 2010, 22:13 (Ref:2767483)   #55
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So that's 2 teams with green and yellow cars on the GP2 grid next year? That livery was last used in the late 60's right?

What/who was involved in the 1996-1997 Esprit-Elise GT1 efforts (was it Team Lotus)? And in the recurring rumours of Hunt wanting to come back in F1 with the Lotus name in the last 10 years?

To me, the name should go to those who own it and use it to sell road cars (a range of 5 new cars starting from 2014!). Malaysian politics are at work here (and impossible to understand), but I wouldn't underestimate the ex-Ferrari mafia at Lotus and their connections with the FIA and other important people in the sport.
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Old 30 Sep 2010, 23:45 (Ref:2767532)   #56
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Tony Fernandes could have picked any historic brand, like Tyrell or Brabham. Why Lotus, when they currently build road and race cars?
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Old 1 Oct 2010, 06:21 (Ref:2767606)   #57
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I doubt Bernie would have been pleased had he chosen Brabham, and the Lotus name must have been a big factor on getting him on the grid in the first place. Litespeed had no chance; Lotus on the other hand...
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Old 2 Oct 2010, 02:55 (Ref:2768023)   #58
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that depends on who you ask...... Fernandez has transformed Air Asia from a joke to a powerful airline in no time. Meanwhile, Proton has just sat on Lotus for years and their own cars still cant compare to Japan or Korea.
I actually think that Lotus' cars are well regarded in the press and public - the Elise/Exige are seen as no-holds-barred, lightweight, and excellently handling cars, and the Evora I think won EVO's Car of the Year Award or some such thing. Also, there are not really any Japanese or Korean cars that compete with Lotuses, so I think that comparison is flawed - unless you are comparing them on a more generic level, in which case as I said, Lotuses are well regarded.

Now, the new crop released at the Paris Auto Show... Those are suspect amongst the purists.
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Old 2 Oct 2010, 10:33 (Ref:2768084)   #59
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The Lotus road car business has been doing fine in the niche they carved out for themselves. It seems they now want to abandon this in favour of something upmarket and elite where they'll be competing against Porsche and Ferrari. The Lotus brand has tried this in the past and has failed dismally. I would be amazed if they don't fail again. Pity.
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Old 2 Oct 2010, 11:39 (Ref:2768106)   #60
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....Also, there are not really any Japanese or Korean cars that compete with Lotuses, so I think that comparison is flawed - unless you are comparing them on a more generic level, in which case as I said, Lotuses are well regarded.....
He was talking about Proton. Proton cars can not compete with Japanese or Korean cars, at least not in the European market.
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Old 2 Oct 2010, 13:34 (Ref:2768136)   #61
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I actually think that Lotus' cars are well regarded in the press and public - the Elise/Exige are seen as no-holds-barred, lightweight, and excellently handling cars, and the Evora I think won EVO's Car of the Year Award or some such thing.
i suspect it's more that the elise especially has been around since the dawn of time, and even at that point it was a desperate emergency measure to save the company on the cheap that - brilliantly - worked. the difficult step is how they capitalise on that and while the evora is supposed to be an excellent car i don't really see it getting the same kind of response as the elise did with the richer trackday boys looking for a second car for example. i suspect an elise still ranks up there as being one of the cars everyone would like as a toy, alongside cars like caterhams and things like that which is a huge acheivement for a stop gap measure car.

lotus cars really are stuck between a rock and a hard place with where to go next but by picking on lotus racing instead of working with them they're really doing the wrong thing in my opinion.
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Old 2 Oct 2010, 14:43 (Ref:2768152)   #62
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lotus cars really are stuck between a rock and a hard place with where to go next but by picking on lotus racing instead of working with them they're really doing the wrong thing in my opinion.
I think the problem is Lotus already have a motorsports division, which includes the Evora GT4 and their involvement with KV Racing Technoligies in the IICS and they obviously feel that the brand and its marketing are being affected by Fernandes but I think you are right, they ought to be working with them. As far as Joe Public is concerned the F1 team is part and parcel of Lotus Cars, it has the name and the right color so Lotus should use that to their advantage. Rather than going to court and paying a bunch of lawyers preventing Fernandes from using the name, they should aim for a strategy that will benefit all.
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Old 2 Oct 2010, 16:04 (Ref:2768198)   #63
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The Lotus road car business has been doing fine in the niche they carved out for themselves. It seems they now want to abandon this in favour of something upmarket and elite where they'll be competing against Porsche and Ferrari. The Lotus brand has tried this in the past and has failed dismally. I would be amazed if they don't fail again. Pity.
There is certainly a lot of competition in the price points of the cars they showed the other day at the auto show in Paris. Certainly a big gamble if that pays off.

Personally I think they should stay in the Evora/Elise pricing zone and really hammer that in.
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Old 2 Oct 2010, 16:07 (Ref:2768200)   #64
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I think the problem is Lotus already have a motorsports division, which includes the Evora GT4 and their involvement with KV Racing Technoligies in the IICS and they obviously feel that the brand and its marketing are being affected by Fernandes but I think you are right, they ought to be working with them. As far as Joe Public is concerned the F1 team is part and parcel of Lotus Cars, it has the name and the right color so Lotus should use that to their advantage. Rather than going to court and paying a bunch of lawyers preventing Fernandes from using the name, they should aim for a strategy that will benefit all.
Yes you'd figure they would already have so much on their plate with developing 5 new cars into market segments they current don't participate in.

Just seems a waste of time and resources. Historically companies that spread themselves so thin, go bust.
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Old 3 Oct 2010, 13:42 (Ref:2768627)   #65
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I wouldn't be surprised if TF might be considering taking over Group Lotus. To be honest, I'm not sure if these new concept cars would be a good idea if they were to hit production, as they're going for a segment of the market that's crowded. TF managed to start his airline business by purchasing a money losing failure from the Malaysian government ...
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Old 3 Oct 2010, 15:01 (Ref:2768651)   #66
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Matador should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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The Lotus road car business has been doing fine in the niche they carved out for themselves. It seems they now want to abandon this in favour of something upmarket and elite where they'll be competing against Porsche and Ferrari. The Lotus brand has tried this in the past and has failed dismally. I would be amazed if they don't fail again. Pity.
If they don't expand, they can't survive. It means selling more up level cars with higher profit margins IN ADDITION to Elise type cars. Colin Chapman did exactly the same thing for the company to stay afloat when the Esprit was first built.
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Old 3 Oct 2010, 16:51 (Ref:2768689)   #67
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If they don't expand, they can't survive. It means selling more up level cars with higher profit margins IN ADDITION to Elise type cars. Colin Chapman did exactly the same thing for the company to stay afloat when the Esprit was first built.
... and what happened to Lotus then ?
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Old 3 Oct 2010, 22:44 (Ref:2768843)   #68
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... and what happened to Lotus then ?
Got an incredible image boost that helped it along until the gas crisis ruined it for everyone. I'd say they are doing it right this time. Lotus Cars right now, is not doing as well as it could be as a company.
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Old 4 Oct 2010, 00:22 (Ref:2768862)   #69
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Apparently Proton issued a statement at the end of September saying that Group Lotus owned all rights to the Lotus name in the automotive sector, including Formula One, and that Fernandes has no rights to use the brand in the 2011 season.
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Old 4 Oct 2010, 09:03 (Ref:2768964)   #70
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Got an incredible image boost that helped it along until the gas crisis ruined it for everyone. I'd say they are doing it right this time. Lotus Cars right now, is not doing as well as it could be as a company.
As most of the developed world slides into a period of austerity where there's a lot less disposable income swilling around, the class leader in affordable sports cars is abandoning that sector to go after the uber competitive low volume bling sector.

I think that even Lotus fanatics would acknowledge that Lotus was always at its best when it concentrated on clever lightweight simplicity... and ran into trouble when it created expensive supercars to go after Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc...

I firmly believe this strategy is a massive mistake and I would be saddened if it led to the demise of the business - a distinct possibility. I hope I'm wrong.
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Old 4 Oct 2010, 16:10 (Ref:2769244)   #71
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As most of the developed world slides into a period of austerity where there's a lot less disposable income swilling around, the class leader in affordable sports cars is abandoning that sector to go after the uber competitive low volume bling sector.

I think that even Lotus fanatics would acknowledge that Lotus was always at its best when it concentrated on clever lightweight simplicity... and ran into trouble when it created expensive supercars to go after Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc...

I firmly believe this strategy is a massive mistake and I would be saddened if it led to the demise of the business - a distinct possibility. I hope I'm wrong.
It seems to be too much, too fast, especially with a lot of products aimed at what I consider a top heavy segment of the market.

I think there is plenty of room in the $40K-$100K sector to do business and on top of that get people racing. And when you get them racing, you can do a nice parts biz.

Not everyone can be Aston or Lamborghini, so I can't see the point.
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Old 6 Oct 2010, 01:50 (Ref:2770060)   #72
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Hi guys, been a reader here for a while, but never got round to posting before

i was reading this thread the other day, so when i stumbled upon article whilst searching on an unrelated topic (F1 budgets) i thought it might be of interest.

it quotes Fernandes as saying "We have a licensing agreement with Lotus owner Proton and over time that relationship will grow. Lotus will probably buy into the team at some stage. More and more technology from our side will flow into Lotus cars and we will promote the Lotus brand.

full article here...
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Old 6 Oct 2010, 03:12 (Ref:2770074)   #73
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. Colin Chapman did exactly the same thing for the company to stay afloat when the Esprit was first built.
Didn't Bond have a Lotus about that time that sank....
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Old 6 Oct 2010, 03:27 (Ref:2770076)   #74
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Didn't Bond have a Lotus about that time that sank....
James Bond? He had an Esprit that converted into a submarine, in the movie 'The Spy Who Loved Me'
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Old 6 Oct 2010, 04:18 (Ref:2770086)   #75
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Didn't Bond have a Lotus about that time that sank....
"The Spy who loved me". Roger Moore as Bond. Bond driving the amphibious Lotus Esprit is one of the most memorable movie scenes ever.

Maybe they should do a new one with Daniel Craig and the new Esprit.
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