BRSCC new ideas?

[Woolley]

Some mad suggestions coming up, but with National racing largely following the same path year on year, maybe it's time to be radical (As opposed to RAdical).

Too many similar undersupported championships. Amalgamate them, harmonise the rules, and give everyone two races per meeting (then if it all goes pear shaped in one you haven't wasted your entry fee).

Finish each meeting with allcomers races - saloons at one, Sports cars at another, single seaters at the third so everyone can finish with a jolly, again more miles for your pound. If there's problems during the day, everyone should have had a race already, so you won't find several groups of competitors losing out on laps because someone else couldn't behave.

Maximum of two or three race meetings per week-end around the country. Concentrates the competitors, marshal's and spectators into just a few places. Put on an official party on Saturday night, with everyone welcome to socialise together.

Designate meetings as Professional (eg BTCC, F3, GT), semi professional or clubman, but allow the 'lower' classes to guest upwards where the championship proves entertaining enough. Possibly run as additional non-championship races - think how the sponsors would like to see their cars or series appear on the BTCC bill?

No more manufacturer or profit making organisers series (one-make saloons, Zip formula, etc) unless the promotor is willing to fund drivers to promote talent and subsidise the marshals' travelling in return for assisting their business opportunity. Where they do run, have a standard set of regs so that the cars are instantly available for follow on championships such as the Super Coupes.

Institute a 'proper' open saloon championship to feed into BTCC, instead of the mess of championships that run now. Similarly, rationalise the SS series - it's looks like we're going to get even more manufacturer promoted series, run for the benefit of the manufacturer. Stop them doing it and encourage them instead to provide engines for existing formulae.

Banish slick tyres from club saloons ("I couldn't push early on because I was looking after my tyres" - yuk). Slicks generaly inhibit good racing in saloons (but not SS). The exceptions, of course will be the higher powered series such as FSaloons and Thundersaloon type series.

This of course, is not just for the BRSCC, but if one club could start the ball rolling it would help.

Any comments welcome, even if they're just 'don't be a prat, it'll never work!'

[ss_collins]

I agree getting a good grid and keeping the competitors happy is the first priority but look at stock car racing healthy grids at every meeting and large numbers of speecies. Now I can see loads of you going all snobby about the short oval boys - I know I used to think the same , but just watch the Brisca F2's or F1's or the hot rods (which are gorgeous by the way) and you are talking about a proper national racing series. And it seems that all involved are happy. Just lopok at the number of magazines on stock car racing there are, Unloaded 7.3 springs to mind but my old house mate used to subscribe to at least six! and what do we have - in gear - exellent magazine (that we should all buy) but nothing on the scale of the stuff produced by the short oval boys. Each series even have a theme tune!. I think its time we looked to see what everyone else is doing. Or look at castle combe where thing seem to work brilliantly all round.

[ss_collins]

I like woolleys ideas lets do them - bar the bit about slicks - I love driving on slicks - especially if its raining!

[Old Ropey]

This same subject keeps cropping up and I'm not surprised.
We've just completed our first year's racing, which has been great on the track, but I'm appalled at the attitude of many circuits and the club we had to join, BRSCC, in order to race.
Donington had a 2 day meeting on 26/27 October, test day was Thursday because Friday was a track day. In who's interest is that, not us the racers. BRSCC's competion manager doesn't reply to my letter, having charged £115 to join his precious "club"
Just 2 examples, and there have been more, we've had in our first year, both of which were completely unnecessary.
Have any of the august bodies who completely control club racing ever sought the opinions of licence holders or their racing members as to how we would like things done?
Disenchanted though we may be, we'll carry on because the RACING is worth more than all the petty smallmindedness we have to put up with.

[Stephen Green]

I know the purists will hate me for saying this but it is also about putting on a 'show'. It's many years since I went staock car racing (as a spectator) but I remember how the races were always preceeded by music announcing driver parades etc. There used to be drivers wives races, carnival nights and all manner of things to keep the paying public amused and entertained.

Whilst I will be the first to admit that on 'long' circuits this wouldn't be possible, there must be things that can be done to make the 'show' more attractive? I recently posted in a different thread memories of good meetings that used to be organised by the Brands Hatch Racing Club, such as Radio 1 days out, Sun free race days, Evening Standard free race days etc. Why can't meetings such as these be resurrected? They drew good crowds and provided much entertainment so why can't the powers that be look at repeating a successful formula?

[Rod Birley]

I am pleased to see that some of you have mentioned the short circuit attitude to racing. I have some ideas which if they come to fruition might make things a bit more interesting. This year I have travelled to several stadiums taking a close look at how they operate and promote events. None of it is rocket science.
Getting back to the theme I think the BRSCC moving into track days could be good if it kept entry fees down, but I suspect it is just to help balance the books. Looking at what someone experienced at Donington leads me to believe that a track day will push normal testing aside thus disenchanting more competitors. Let us remember the BRSCC is a RACING club, yes it has to make money to survive but it also has to provide members with "affordable" racing if it wants them to sign up each year.

[Stephen H]

As a spectator, there don`t seem to be the must see long circuit meetings, which is where short circuit racing scores.

I`ve held season tickets at Brands, when available since 82, but if I had to pay for each event on the gate, very few would tempt me. (eg Formula Ford Festival, Eurocar, etc)

May if the organising club, was given some of the gate money, they would promote, more spectator interesting events? Tempt more spectators through the gates, and maybe that would lead to lower entry fees for drivers.

[Snapper Baz]

I very much doubt it...at the end of the day once the club has got its entry fees-and providing they get good grids thats all they are interested in or si it seems. Take BRSCC at Croix for example...I wouldn't have bet that no more than a dozen (if lucky!) French spectators went to the 2 day meeting in June or July (it was a great event by the way)so to bank on loads of spectators subsidising a meeting is seemingly out of the question on a regular basis I would say. Lets just say 10 races at £150 entry fee, each grid gets 20 cars per race ...that equals £30.000! need I say more!!

[ss_collins]

could get more speccies though, charge less than a tenner to get in!

[Tony Harman]

Originally posted by Snapper Baz
I Lets just say 10 races at £150 entry fee, each grid gets 20 cars per race ...that equals £30.000! need I say more!!

Unfortunately Brands is going to cost you at least £37k for one day....
All good stuff revisited in this thread.
Dear Woolley - may I suggest you take over running British Club Motorpsort - Immediately !
Interestinmg points raised about the Short Circuit racers, they do get good grids and good spectator numbers, main reasons I think because they do put on a show for the paying public and they seem to be able to keep entry costs v.low for drivers, OK I know that tracks are a lot smaller so maybe they don't cost so much to run but also they don't seem to have all the bureaucracy seen in our racing which must increase costs.
Rallycross was always interesting because it was the only formula designed for TV, we used to pay low entry fees and get 4 or 5 runs a day, damn busy days though !, but always good spectator turnout - why ? - because they were always advertised locally. I think now the entry fees have crept up to normal circuit racing levels.
Completely agree on too many manufacturer series.

[Stephen Green]

Have many competitors ever had a really close look at the costs incurred by clubs such as the BRSCC or BARC in running a meeting? By that I mean the costs outside of circuit hire. We are always criticising Octagon etc for their costs to hire the venue, but could the organising clubs costs be cut to help lower entry fees?

[Marshal]

Originally posted by Tony Harman
Dear Woolley - may I suggest you take over running British Club Motorpsort - Immediately !

Couldn't agree more - nice one Woolley, when do you take up your position?

[Gnomex]

As chief startline marshal at the Rallycross Grand Prix at Brands, and having marshalled rallycross at Lydden for years, I have listened to spectators and found that what above all draws them in is the thrills and spills, and not necessarily technical brilliance in the racing.

Spectators go home and talk about the incidents, how a driver charged past going into Chessons, how Schanche did victory donuts. They tell their mates about such things and this encourages more people to go.

I think racing is another form of theatre and should be packaged that way. Lots of short races, loose surfaces (to get the cars tail end out), quick and slick organisation to avoid dull moments looking at an empty track. Actually, we do all this already in rallycross - so see you all at Lydden on December 28th!!

[martinparsons]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
I know the purists will hate me for saying this but it is also about putting on a 'show'. It's many years since I went staock car racing (as a spectator) but I remember how the races were always preceeded by music announcing driver parades etc. There used to be drivers wives races, carnival nights and all manner of things to keep the paying public amused and entertained.

Whilst I will be the first to admit that on 'long' circuits this wouldn't be possible, there must be things that can be done to make the 'show' more attractive? I recently posted in a different thread memories of good meetings that used to be organised by the Brands Hatch Racing Club, such as Radio 1 days out, Sun free race days, Evening Standard free race days etc. Why can't meetings such as these be resurrected? They drew good crowds and provided much entertainment so why can't the powers that be look at repeating a successful formula?

Too many good views in this forum for me to discuss, but as a driver I raced in the 1992 Sun free race day at Brands, what a cracking event it was, one of the very few meetings in 17 years of motorsport that i went and watched all the other races !! Just in the paddock alone my poor little CRX dwarfed by the racing truck parked next to us
More mixed format meetings are needed, get the Cart, bike, truck and car fans together at one meeting. Maybe ?????

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by martinparsons
More mixed format meetings are needed, get the Cart, bike, truck and car fans together at one meeting. Maybe ?????

I'd like to see more mixed format meetings. I'm involved, as a marshal, in both car & bike racing, so I see the prejudices from both sides. Getting all the fans &, probably more importantly, the organisers & competitors, together at one meeting would help break down a lot of barriers (not literally!).

One of the problems with mixed meetings is that different disciplines require different circuit set-ups. I believe that a combined car/bike meeting was mooted as part of Oulton Park's 50th Anniversary celebrations next year, but was deemed to be impractical beacuse of these differing requirements. For bike racing at Oulton straw bales have to be placed at several points around the track to protect riders from the tyre walls; their position, number & configuration are specified as part of the ACU licence conditions & must be checked by the relevant officials before practice or racing can commnece. The MSA, on the other hand, does not allow straw bales. So, to run a combined car/bike meeting, the bales would have to positioned or removed according to which group was out next, then the circuit inspected. OK, some would say, what's a few straw bales, & we've managed a combined car/kart meeting (karts also require a few bales to protect the ends of Armco barriers); if I remember correctly, at Old Hall it's something like seven rows of bales, each row containing anything from five to thirteen bales - not exactly a two-minute job!

[Woolley]

Aw, shucks, I haven't been here for a while and I find nice things being said!

Couldn't agree more - nice one Woolley, when do you take up your position?

I don't think I want to run anything (although the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy always said the best person to give power to was someone who didn't want it!) but thanks for the vote, anyway. I suggest you all lobby the RAC/clubs as you renew (or don't) your subscriptions. The only reason I think I've hit a chord is that the organisers are to tied up with commercial pressures and forget the important question: What does everyone involved want? Answer: Club; Fun racing, easy access, good social get togethers, Professional; Career progression, exciting but sporting competition for the spectators, good returns for the sponsors. To achieve it all you've got to do is identify what's stopping it from happening now, and I don't understand how so many organisers can spend so much time at so many meetings without spotting what's wrong.

I'd be happy to achieve one item per year, and I'd start with the Saturday night parties, because they will encourage dialogue between the officials, drivers and organisers (those of you involved in hill-climbs will know what I mean). If the clubs won't organise it, why don't the competitors start obbying their championship organisers now? Spread the word... (starting with Marcus Pye, who seems to me to be the only person with influence who's kept his eye on the ball.)

See you all next year for more of the same. <<Sighs>>

[les beer]

Perhaps some of you guys might like to check on the single seater thread from Ralt racer and have a look at the single seater series being launched as we speak.You might get some ideas.Low cost,varied cars,2races per meeting,kept to south east tracks,run by BARC se with Driver supported committee to control the spirit of the regs and create a club atmosphere at the tracks with dedicated paddock areas.No expensive registration fee's just a nominal charge for registration to cover post etc.The series is aimed at drivers who for one reason or another cant or wont run in wannabe championships or those who have odd cars with no place to go with them.We need a breath of fresh air in club motorsport and I hope we have started the ball rolling.FEEDBACK WELCOME

[ss_collins]

Mixed bag races should happen at every meeting, It allows people to get an extra race in or those with odd cars like me (McCoy) - somewhere to race