HSCC/HRSR first lap incident - Silverstone, 20/10/2007 -

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by max3597

claire what about this for an idea
We could have a weekend away.
No racing we will just take our blue books to read to each other.
You will be very safe because I will be asleep within minutes.

Max....I have no doubt that the Blue Book would send us both off to sleep!!..the thing is what with that and the expense of the weekend away.....You should have paid the 500...it would have been cheaper!!!

We could arrange a blue book seminar...."Bring your own Pillow!"


all the best
Claire

[terence]

Has this turned into a lonely hearts forum now.No No,it,s OK you just carry on,pretend theres no-one else reading this.

[max3597]

Sorry to everyone out there in particular Mr Turner. My legal team has investigated Claire and have discovered that she is an Essex girl. Due to the fact that I was born in Romford my doctor has advised that any relationship with Claire is potentialy to explosive and has further advised that I would be safer having another go at the first corner at Silverstone.
So is everyone happy now that we are back at Silverstone?

[GBRM]

John - My post was not aimed at any individual and I'd like to think it was worded as it was meant as a question as an interested/nosey party. As Gordon said damage cand happen to any of us and I know if it happened to me that would be the end of my racing for a long time so I'm interested in the outcome.

I appreciate John cannot comment and would not expect him to do so. Also, I haven't apportioned any blame or taken sides, I think you must have read someone else's post on that.

I appreciate Max's comments have not been "moderated" all I was trying to say that in other threads there have been "whispers" of certain cars, drivers, preparation people with cars that aren't legal and are not "de facto" either way so I just saw it as a shame people where questioning that he should post and I don't see why he shouldn't.

My comment was not aimed at 10/10ths as a forum more of why can't it be an open place for discussion and learning, I for one did not know the process that Max has outlined above and think it's very interesting to learn in case I am ever in the same position which I hope not now!!

[gojo]

I have put a in car video clip of the saloons on utube http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T_NcFfSZ2fo

the only loser here is Dan Cox!

[johnh875]

I'm not sure who you could describe as winners out of that though! Thanks for sharing the video.

[John Turner]

Ok, we have two separate issues here:-

1) The incident itself
I adhere to my comments above. At the risk of repeating myself, we have two key figures involved; the driver penalised for it, and the Clerk of the Course responsible for imposing that penalty, contributing to this thread (which is great, by the way!). The first has given his account of the accident, and the other has responded, necessarily with (at least!) one hand tied behind his back. In those circumstances, I think it entirely wrong to get into further public discussion about reapportioning blame for that incident, particularly when, as far as the driver is concerned, the matter is not closed. This is not trial by Public Forum. If anyone actually witnessed the accident, then they should submit their evidence privately to those parties directly involved, or to whoever may be presiding over any enquiry that may result from Max's letter. Anything else is just opinion and therefore conjectural.

Gregor, my post was a direct response to your earlier one, and I quoted directly from it, so there is no case of mistaken identity! However, I haven't the slightest intention of falling out with you over it. I'm merely attempting to moderate in the manner I think is appropriate and in the interests of 10-Tenths and its posters!

One final point on the incident from me. Many thanks to Jo, for his in car footage; as he says, it is clear that Dan Cox is the completely innocent victim in this, and he is going to have to incur, very unfortunately, a substantial financial outlay to rectify the damage.

2) The appeals process
A separate matter, which I'm sure can be discussed, provided it is constructive, but really ought to form its own thread. Do we agree on this point? That the issue has emerged as a result of an event at the meeting discussed on this thread, is almost an irrelevance, and continued discussion of it is off topic and detracts from the purpose of the thread. However, if there are differences on the appeals procedure, or at least in the method by which an appeal can be submitted, between the HSCC and the HRSR, then it is useful to raise them. Hopefully, those two august bodies could reach an agreement over the process to apply when the one is the organising body for the other, if they have not already done so.

[johngee]

John - I think it's an excellent idea for discussion regarding the appeals procedure, about which many drivers have little knowledge, to have its' own thread. I'd be very happy to contribute to that but not in the context of this, or any other, actual incident.

[John Turner]

Ok, well later on, I'll try to split some of these posts off to form a new thread whilst leaving those relating to the specific incident here. Might be difficult though!

[terence]

I agree on those ideas,but care need,s to be taken on what is said/implied obviously.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Ok, well later on, I'll try to split some of these posts off to form a new thread whilst leaving those relating to the specific incident here. Might be difficult though!

Great Idea

[max3597]

The thread and responses have been almost all related to the first corner incident and the penalising of me which included the judicial procedure that was conducted at the Silverstone finals meeting and therefore it would be quite wrong in my opinion to stop the natural flow from the initial thread.
It must also be obvious that from the number of views there is more interest in this thread than most of the others so again it would be wrong to interfere with its flow.
Further to my posts yesterday and my thoughts of what could have been with a relationship with Claire and the blue book I remembered that I had forgotten to mention a detail when I handed in my appeal against the decision by the Clerk of the Course.
I had prepared my appeal as set out in my previous post and went to the Race Stewards to hand it in.
They told me that they could not accept it as it did not have the details of my race licence number on it. This is despite the officials being in possessions of this information as it had been provided at signing on.
My race licence was about ¼ mile away at the top of the paddock so I went to the signing on office where luckily they had the licence number. I then had to rush back to race control so as to comply with the 30 minute rule.
The MSA set out in their blue book all their requirements together with emergency and safety procedures required during the course of any race meeting that is governed by their rules.
Because of their inadequate rules relating to the preparation of the competitor prior to them competing in race meetings under their control I would suggest the following.
At the time when the car, equipment and clothing are checked by the scrutineers the competitor should be in the possession of the following.

• A storage belt capable of containing all the necessary equipment that could be needed by a competitor during the race meeting including.
• Idiots guide to understanding the blue book.
• 0800 help line telephone number should the competitor not understand the idiots guide.
• Copy of race licence.
• Two blank pieces of paper. One to appeal the Clerk of the Course and the other to appeal to the Race Stewards.
• Pen or pencil
• List of telephone numbers of the entrants in the race together with the telephone numbers of all the witnesses that you may need to contact following the race.
• A mobile telephone. This will also require a mandatory cigarette lighter power point to be fitted to the car to ensure that the telephone is fully charged at the end of the race.
• A packet containing £170 should an appeal be necessary.
• A packet containing £500 should a second appeal to the Race Stewards be necessary.

Once all the above has been checked by the Scrutineers the storage belt will need a Scutineers sticker before the competitor is allowed out on the circuit.
I wander why this is not already in the blue book.
O I just realised it must be that the MSA don’t want any of their competitors questioning the decisions made by their race officials.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by max3597

It must also be obvious that from the number of views there is more interest in this thread than most of the others so again it would be wrong to interfere with its flow.
.

I think some of them might have thought our "relationship" as you put it was like the nescafe gold blend add campaign Max...I can just imagine you knocking on my door with

"Im having a dinner party....I couldn't borrow your blue book could I?"

[Tonto]

Well the view shown by YouTube suggests that any appeal would be futile.

[max3597]

At the time of the accident I cant see my car only the Vaulkhard Mustang hitting the back left hand wing of the Dan Cox car.
Perhaps you can explain in detail where you can see that I am at fault because I cant.

[Tonto]

I have clearly misinterpreted the video, and you are not leaning on the middle Mustang and aiming to apex alongside the pitwall with two cars on your inside. Dan Cox is without doubt the unfortunate victim, and between you and the other Mustang there was room to avoid each other IMHO. You are slightly obscured by another car but using 'pause' and 'play' it looks like the other Mustang has gone for the gap between you and Cox and you have moved across. Thats racing, but wholly avoidable...........

[terence]

This is the reason I suggested that this incident be dropped Gent,s.

[Cactus Pete]

The general view seems to be that Dan Cox is an innocent victim in a Mustang shoot out - sadly he doesnt have the Mustang driver's budget and as a result a talented and entertaining to watch driver will probably not race next season. That is a shame. I would have thought a clever thing would be for the Mustang drivers to think about an ex gratia without admission of liability donation to Dan reshelling his car.
How many points are you allowed on a licence and how long do they stay there?

[Tonto]

OK lets drop it. The 3 C's rules come to mind - no crashing, no cheating, no complaining!

[rogerwills]

This is exactly the reason I insure my car every time I'm out. The 100 quid or so is small beer compared to the cost of a new shell etc.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by rogerwills

This is exactly the reason I insure my car every time I'm out. The 100 quid or so is small beer compared to the cost of a new shell etc.

That seems very cheap Roger - Is it with the 'Vladivostock Mutual Equitable Friendly Society Inc with Extremely Limited Liability' and have they ever paid out on a claim?

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by max3597

The thread and responses have been almost all related to the first corner incident and the penalising of me which included the judicial procedure that was conducted at the Silverstone finals meeting and therefore it would be quite wrong in my opinion to stop the natural flow from the initial thread.
It must also be obvious that from the number of views there is more interest in this thread than most of the others so again it would be wrong to interfere with its flow.

Which rather misses the point I was trying to make. My intention was to allow you, Max, to air your version of events, not, and I have made it clear enough, for it to become a discussion about the legitimacy or otherwise of your case. Contrary to the view that you are now promulgating, this thread is not about your incident, but as the heading conveys, the HSCC Finals. If you could find the time to look at similar threads you will see how they develop and the number of views they generate. Since this is now overshadowing the subject matter of the thread, I now have no option but to strip out all the posts relating to the incident as a separate thread and then close it. I will then, if I have time, split out a separate discussion about the appeals procedure which I will leave open.

[John Turner]

I may well split this down but for the time being this thread is closed.