TRS (Essex) Ltd Brands Hatch Stage Rally - 22nd January 2012

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by snowen250

Very excited about this now, hope the weather is good!

Hmm, not sure about the weather - rain levels the field a bit as far as power goes. Then again, Brands in the rain in January isn't great!

Originally Posted by snowen250

I understood that the circuit was being modified over the winter, through Graham Hill. Has this not occured?

Simon

Simon, there's a whole thread about the proposed changes to Graham Hill here:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131301

[m1fcf]

Originally Posted by snowen250

Very excited about this now, hope the weather is good!

Well done to everyone for organising this, one thing though. I understood that the circuit was being modified over the winter, through Graham Hill. Has this not occured?

Simon

There have been minor modifications to parts of the circuit (repaired kerbing, better grass-crete run offs etc) but the big planned Graham Hill Bend change is scheduled for next winter. The planning application is still in the approval/consultation process.

And while I am here, good luck to everyone for the weekend's event. I marshalled last year, and havent been organised enough this year to get my name down for it. Will be watching from a distance via the website and Twitter.

[snowen250]

Cheers guys! Ah im a bit early on the changes....

hugh, looking forward to seeing the Escort sliding, but you dont need rain for that do you....?

[Suze]

There is now a preview on the Brands Hatch website, see:

http://news.brandshatch.co.uk/rally-...nds-hatch.aspx

I'm afraid there will be no spectator access to the centre of the circuit [ie pitlane / inner paddock etc], South Bank or the rally stage areas. This is after considerable discussion between both the club and MSV, and the need to be able to both adequately marshal these areas and ensure the safety of spectators. There will be a grandstand open, but I don't want to post which one as I am not 100% sure yet, and the service area etc will be open as per last year - so go and bug BertMk2 and pay him to go more sideways or something

[snowen250]

Originally Posted by Suze

There is now a preview on the Brands Hatch website, see:

http://news.brandshatch.co.uk/rally-...nds-hatch.aspx

I'm afraid there will be no spectator access to the centre of the circuit [ie pitlane / inner paddock etc], South Bank or the rally stage areas. This is after considerable discussion between both the club and MSV, and the need to be able to both adequately marshal these areas and ensure the safety of spectators. There will be a grandstand open, but I don't want to post which one as I am not 100% sure yet, and the service area etc will be open as per last year - so go and bug BertMk2 and pay him to go more sideways or something

So from that i understand we wont be able to spectate on the outside of druids bend this year?!

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by Suze

I'm afraid there will be no spectator access to the centre of the circuit [ie pitlane / inner paddock etc], South Bank or the rally stage areas.

Thats a shame, as we were allowed to park up on South Bank and wander into the rally area last year.

Still, if marshalling is the reason then thats fair enough.

[Suze]

I don't expect people to be able to get to the outside of Druids, no.

[brands hatch]

Well that might have me change my plans then...your telling me the only place I can effectively spectate is clearways/pit straight/"One of the grandstands" ....so I cant access 75% of the stage? Paddock hill, Druids, South bank or the rally stage? May well have lost a ticket sale here then

[snowen250]

That does sound a bit.....much.

I understand the pits but why not druids?!?!

[Elio]

At a guess....

In order to reach stage start or come back to service from stage finish, competing vehicles must drive, (as they did last year), un-competitively along the access road from MSV Centre, past Clearways, over Med-Centre bridge, up to "Johnny Herbert" Bridge, and either down onto GP circuit, or down Hailwood Hill to Hailwoods before doing a right to access Rally Stage.

Last year this caused MSV to get into a bit of a pickle, having to have people on both bridges to co-ordinate traffic flow between rally cars and private spectator cars.

As such, they obviously want to avoid this happening again, which is why the spectators who turn up on Sunday will be asked to park outside in the front field I expect.

However.... To then take the stance that pedestrian spectators do not have the capability to move from Med Centre bridge to top of Druids, via "Johnny Herbert" bridge, without managing to to get hit in some way by a rally car is rather astounding. To take the stance that Rally Cars cannot move UN-Competitively along the same route, abiding with the speed limits, without also somehow hitting a spectator is similarly astounding.

Putting a couple of kids on Johnny Herbert bridge to prevent people then going down Hawthorn Hill to access rally stage, and another couple near the rubbish dump to prevent speccies getting in that way, would deal with any clever so-and-sos that might want to try to get to the out of bounds area.

Anyhoo, only my take on it, but I suspect I am not too far away from the truth.

What a ridiculous shame that whoever has called the shots on this has massively screwed-up and gone a very long way to killing off peoples enthusiasm for this event only 12months after it was such a resounding hit.

Still, MSV read this apparently, so they still have a few days to sort things out. I expect that, without an official statement on their website to the contrary, that the vast majority of their paying punters on Sunday will come expecting to be able to access AT LEAST the normal Indy circuit viewing points. When they find they cant, and they weren`t told they wouldnt be able to before they paid-up at the gate, I`m sure they`ll be full of positivity towards the MSV team.

I am reliably informed that there is a highly entertaining short-oval meet at nearby Arena Essex on Sunday, in case anyone wishes to change their plans (and, to the best of my knowledge you can stand all the way around the whole of the outside of the track as well).

[adam46]

I hate to bug anyone but I need to know ASAP whether or not I can go into Paddock Hill Grandstand because if I'm not then there is no point in me coming from the Isle Of Wight.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by snowen250

That does sound a bit.....much.

I understand the pits but why not druids?!?!

The only way to get to Druids at last years rally was to walk round the whole circuit, across South Bank and up to Druids that way.

If the layout is the same as last year (which it looks to be) and the only way to Druids is via South Bank (or rather round the back and over the road bridge), then if South Bank is closed off so is Druids.

I was uncertain on my attendance I as I'm a bit strapped for cash this month, so this seals the deal for me: I won't be there this year. We need more events like this though, so I hope it goes well!

[m1fcf]

Originally Posted by adam46

I hate to bug anyone but I need to know ASAP whether or not I can go into Paddock Hill Grandstand because if I'm not then there is no point in me coming from the Isle Of Wight.

There is talk of *a* grandstand being open, but not which one. Given the layout of the stages, then I am going to take a stab at it being Paddock Hill Grandstand. However, it might be worth giving Ticket Hotline: 0843 453 9000 a ring to check.

If it isn't, and you haven't double checked with Brands themselves, then please don't come back here blaming me. i am only guessing from a distance.

[Stephen H]

So does this mean there is no spectating from paddock hill bend either? Guess paddock hill stand will be open, but that you will be able to get no further.

Real shame as its sounds that we won't be able to watch from the spectator area on the rally stage, or watch the cars go through the outer paddock, from the spectator banking at paddock hill bend.

Sorry for the competitors and the organising club, but if spectators can only watch from paddock hill stand to clearways, then it takes away the spots where most spectated from last year. So I guess many will be disappointed.

That means you won't be able to stand and watch the cars at either stage start or either stage finish?

Shame as I enjoyed last year, but really glad I didn't buy a ticket in advance. As it will be the oval expo at arena essex on both Sat and Sunday for me now, and maybe Wimbledon for the London Championsip for Superstox afterwards.

Thankfully there is the south down stages in feb, where I can watch rally cars without having to peer through debris fencing and where you can walk all the way around Goodwood circuit.

Thank you very much for letting spectators know in advance, as I would have been very disappointed to have found out on the day after paying to get in.

[Elio]

Remember that to the best of my knowledge there has been no official statement from either the organisers website, or the venues website about spectating. It just seems to be a comment on here, plus some conjecture by myself as to why it is probably the case (and I can assure you I am just a local Brands-ite, and have no insider knowledge about anything!).

I do feel that Brands, when previewing the meeting with talk of usage of access roads, and the Rally Stage, and promoting the event with images that look to have been taken on the rally stage last year, SHOULD be notifying people in advance of them turning-up at the event if specating areas really are going to be as very limited as they sound that they might be.

PS - Ahhh, someone with a bit of taste !!....

and maybe Wimbledon for the London Championsip for Superstox afterwards

Trouble is, bloomin` Wimbo is now into the "lets only let speccies watch from a third of the venue" as well these days!

[nigel159]

I really don't understand these spectating restrictions.
We can stand behind fencing all round Brands to watch racing why not rallying?
I really enjoyed this event last year and it was free this year we have to pay and have no where to take pictures and have very restricted viewing.

[Suze]

To reply to various posts above:

The information re spectating access may not be an official statement on the club website, or MSV / Brands website, but I am passing this on as one of the named organisers and this information is coming from meetings / speaking to the Clerk of the Course. The decisions re spectating access have taken place after a number of meetings between Chelmsford MC and Brands Hatch / MSV for reasons as posted previously. Unfortunately we cannot win - having let people know here what is happening in advance, people are not happy, but if we hadn't let people know, I am sure there would also have been comments.

Whilst the event may be being held at a race circuit, it is not a race meeting, therefore where people can normally spectate at a race meeting has no bearing on where people can spectate on a stage rally. The stages use a number of areas, competitively, that circuit racing does not which mean some of the restrictions that are in place.

I did not post which grandstand was open earlier as I only had provisional information, however having spoken to the Clerk of the Course this afternoon the Desiree Wilson stand will be open. This is because Brands cannot open the Paddock Hill Grandstand. [H&S / laws is not my normal area, however I understand that all grandstands must have two useable exits for safety grounds, and one of the normal entrances / exits to the Paddock Hill grandstand would exit onto a live stage therefore the Paddock Hill grandstand cannot be opened and an alternative has had to have been found].

People cannot access the top of Paddock Hill due to the fact this would be crossing a live stage via one of the two access points - as per the diagrams at http://brandshatchstages.co.uk/sites...geDiagrams.pdf Unfortunately last year, a number of people chose to climb barriers and ignore clear directions from marshals telling them not to cross the stage - they then became rude and abusive towards the marshals. You'd think it would be obvious with barriers and marshals telling you not to cross a live stage that you should not be doing this, and I am sure I do not need to explain why this is being controlled on this event when we can control it, and why crossing a live stage with cars at 30 second intervals is not permitted.....

Nobody is saying that rally cars cannot negotiate the South Bank / stage access slowly and uncompetitively without hitting spectators, but unfortunately some of the spectators who did access the "normal" Brands rally stage etc last year liked to stand on the stage / stand in places they shouldn't / ignore marshals instructions with regards to restricted areas. Again, when this can be controlled we need to - for the safety of all involved.

Perhaps if people had been respectful of instructions from marshals and officials last year, then these steps would not have had to have been taken - that is me speculating, but it is rather a case of the minority spoiling it for those of you here saying you would like access to the rally stage / Druids / etc. The knock on effect is the club and Brands / MSV having to look at and address these incidents this year.

[Suze]

Hot off the press.....and yes, of course I'll post here:

I am currently discussing with MSV the possibility of allowing spectator access to the South Bank and Druids. It may depend on there being sufficient marshalling capabilities and the safety of spectators using the same route as 2 way rally traffic. Hopefully I will have a definitive decision tomorrow. As soon as I know I will post on here.
Tony Clements,
Clerk of the Course.

[The SpeCTator]

In the name of H and S how is the Desire Wilson stand going to cope with all of the spectators, are ticket sales that poor?
Hopefully common sense will prevail and Southbank and Druids will be open to the people who have paid good money to get in.

[brands hatch]

Hopefully Druids/SB will be opened... And even then we won't get to spectate any loose sections or "proper" rally stage what so ever. IMO part of the whole appeal of rallying is the ability to get fairly close to the action... they've successfully thrown that one out the window! If it is closed, there is going to be some disappointed, perhaps even angry people on Sunday I suspect!
Agree with Elio with regard's to the way the event has been promoted as well!

[motorholic]

WAS so looking forward to this but with all these spectator restrictions (if they are in place) probably not worth attending . such a shame its gone from one of the best events of 2011 to one not even worth going to !!!!

[adam46]

Desire Wilson is close enough, I'm there!

At the end of the day a rally is a rally, I only needed to know about which grandstand because my Grandmother who takes me up is disabled.

And m1fcf don't worry, I wasn't going to take it out on you.

[Elio]

Hmmmm.......

I very much appreciate the information coming from Suze re this event, as without it, all this would be being found out on Sunday morning, which would be a heck of a lot worse.

The comments re Rally Stage and top of Paddock are all perfectly understandable and expected. There doesnt seem to be any justification of the whole "cant walk along the same route an uncompetitive rally car takes to access Surtees, Cooper Straight, Southbank, Graham Hill, Druids, Hailwood Hill, Paddock (up til the restriction)" though. Maybe this is why it is being looked at.

The only justification that I can see is that it would introduce speccies into an area where they will be more likely to infiltrate the Rally Stage. If this is the case then blocking people off at the Med Centre bridge (where I anticipate it will be) rather than creating a couple of blocks at Hawthorn Hill (where you could access Rally stage), and near the rubbish dump (where you could access viewing from the "lodge") really is a bit of an ill-thought out cop-out to be perfectly fair.

[Suze]

Elio, my understanding is that it has nothing to do with people walking / cars travelling uncompetitively. It is that minority of people who then try to find any way possible through the woods etc to avoid any contact and pop up on a live stage, ie the "traditional" rally stage. That is difficult to police / marshal hence the decision was taken to stop access at an easily controllable point. As above, from the CoC comments, that is under discussion and if / when there is news, I'll let you all know.

[Suze]

Just received:

.

Good news, MSV have reviewed the areas available to spectate and with the addition of a couple of marshals are now happy to allow pedestrian spectator access to the South Bank and Druids. Please be aware that spectators will be using the same route as non competitive rally traffic.
Tony Clements,
Clerk of the Course.