How to break F1 lap records with a $50,000 to $100,000 car

[Slowcoach]

The irony is that although you mention that if we still had Formula Libre , costs would have escalated out of control. Many people would argue that the costs involved within Formula 1 are indeed astronomical and the original post by Franklin mentioned a figure of 'only' $50,000 to $100,000 for developing a car that he claimed might be able to break F1 lap records...........a mere drop in the ocean when compared to the budget of say Jaguar or Ferrari. But that is the problem with so many things in life , people are able to just throw money at the problem and often win , instead of just competeting for the sheer thrill of it regardless of where you finish ! (Which is what I hope must of us would do! -just for the thrill I mean)

[Sparky]

Slowcoach, the problem isn't just about breaking lap records. As mentioned a few times in this thread, the technology is out there and relatively cheap. The problem lies in reliability. Taking Monaco as an extreme, there are numerous acceleration, braking, and high G loadings running through every component of the car, lap after lap for two hours. Not forgetting brushes with the armco and fellow competitors, the car has to be able to withstand an amazing amount of abuse, and do so reliably.
Much of the money spent on F1 these days will be in the area of ensuring the cars last the distance, a point not missed on Franklin...

Drop in a low percentage nitro motor built to run just a few laps.

With the restraints of technical regulations, it is a wonder these constructors manage to maintain the speeds of a few years ago. Legislate a reduced budget, and a reduction in speed, and there would be no way the cars would maintain their current form.

[Peter Mallett]

In fairness to franklin, his original post actually says "a few laps" or words of that nature. We are really arguing about longer distance racing which is not Mr F's bag.

[Sparky]

I'm sure what Franklin meant to say was; "how to build a $50,000 to $100,000 F1 car that can out-qualify the current crop"

BTW, F1 Lap records can only be broken during an actual race can't they? Something Mr F's balsa wood example wouldn't last 3 minutes doing, I'm sure.

[KC]

Even with the extreme expense of F1 these days, it has not reached the point that a huge number of teams or suppliers or manufacturers are going to quit. The bad part is that like every other form of racing in the world, when the manufacturers get involved and spend the necessary funds to put together a proper effort, they will eventually quit. I doubt F1 will be immune to this. I can see in the next 10 years where the manufacturers like Renault, Honda, Toyota, Ford/Jaguar, and BMW will all be clamoring for a reduction in costs and some will quit the series. There comes a time when the advertising benefits of being a world stage winner do not outweigh the costs involved getting there. This can be ushered in by the dominance of one particular make as well. Group C sports cars in America collapsed after Nissan and Toyota had spent millions making their teams the top flight in the program and everyone else gave up and the series died. This could happen to F1 and I think would have happened 20 years ago if Formula Libre rules were adopted.

[Franklin]

The biggest myth is the entire history of motorsports is that quantum leaps in performance or technology require quantum leaps in budget. It's finding all those incremental marginal improvements in performance that gets really expensive. (For example, the $200 to $300 million budgets of McLaren and Ferrari.)

[Franklin]

"how to build a $50,000 to $100,000 F1 car that can out-qualify the current crop"

No Sparky, what I meant to say was HOW TO BUILD FOR $50,000 TO $100,000 AN OPEN WHEEL CAR THAT WILL RUN ANY F1 TRACK QUICKER THAN ANY F1 CAR EVER BUILT BY ANYBODY ANYWHERE.

[Sparky]

Franklin, I've already agreed that it can be done, but with the set-up you suggest, and at that budget, anything built isn't going to last long.

You said yourself; "Drop in a low percentage nitro motor built to run just a few laps." Basically, a qualifying 'grenade' motor.

The fact is, and you also said this, that it can't be done without illegal parts.

SO ONCE AGAIN, WHAT'S THE POINT?????

[fatbloke]

The point, Sparky, is that Franklin is a stupid troll who only comes here to **** people off by posting the same old shyte again and again. Shame he doesn't **** off himself really.

[Franklin]

By the way, Fat(fill in the blank), I forgot to mention that by using a surplus T-58 gas turbine you could not only build a $50,000 to $100,000 car capable of turning quicker laps than an F1 car but also capable of going the same distance).

[fatbloke]

Why not try approaching an F1 team boss with your plans Mr Franklyfullofshyte ? You never know, he just might show an interest. Or maybe not...

[Peter Mallett]

Yeah, but then you get the problem of fuel capacity and braking. With all of this discussion, nobody has really disagreed with your correct statement that cars can be built to go faster than an F1 or Champ Car. However the latter two need to be built to regulations and as far as I am aware turbines and forced induction engines are banned from these formulae.

When these items could be used they were too expensive for the teams to try. Lotus had a go and Rover built and competed at Le Mans with a Gas Turbine car. So its not new. Its just not the formula.

And that where any argument falls down. To get the best out of a formula you need to spend money. At my level it involves having special engine components manufactured. I can't change my suspension etc. If I could do those things I would then be racing in a different category.

[ma]

Oops - you blew it Frank. Turbines are notoriously slow to rev up, so I'm afraid that your dream car is gonna be rather slow off the corner.

The real question about all this is " So what ?" If some real engineers chose to do so, they could build a car that would eat a Top Fuel dragster alive, or a car that would set you gas pavement speed mark up over 600 mph. Building a straight line car is no big challenge if there are no rules. It's doing it within a set of rules that separates the real engineers from the hot rodder types. Even your beloved Nemesis ( or whatever the heck it is named) was built to a rules book - a plane built with no restrictions on design or components would make it looke like a Piper Cub. By the way, a Continental engine cost about $60k new, a carbon fiber prop a mimimum of $1k, and up to $10k or more, and two years of labor for two guys a minimum of $100k, so your budget claims are not real, no matter what anyone says.

You really are pathetic - go take your garbage elsewhere.

[Franklin]

"The real question about all this is " So what ?" If some real engineers chose to do so, they could build a car that would eat a Top Fuel dragster alive, or a car that would set you gas pavement speed mark up over 600 mph. Building a straight line car is no big challenge if there are no rules. It's doing it within a set of rules that separates the real engineers from the hot rodder types. Even your beloved Nemesis ( or whatever the heck it is named) was built to a rules book - a plane built with no restrictions on design or components would make it looke like a Piper Cub. By the way, a Continental engine cost about $60k new, a carbon fiber prop a mimimum of $1k, and up to $10k or more, and two years of labor for two guys a minimum of $100k, so your budget claims are not real, no matter what anyone says."

Hey, MA (super genius), the website for Nemesis is http://www.nemesisnxt.com . Why don't you send them an e-mail pointing out what huge liars they must be because since obviously they are giving people completely bogus figures?

"Building a straight line car is no big challenge if there are no rules. It's doing it within a set of rules that separates the real engineers from the hot rodder types."

Well, MA (super doofus), the very term FASTEST SPEED ON PAVEMENT WITH GAS implies a car built to strict rules (or had that somehow completely escaped your attention?). It was a lakester (not a streamliner or an unlimited land speed record car), specifically a C/Blown Gas Lakester. And if it's not too hard for you to comprehend, the terms streamliner, C/Blown Gas and lakester must therefore imply the existence of a rulebook. Hopefully, you were sitting down as you read this earth-shattering revelation.

[ma]

Funny you should mention that web site - in it they are quoted as saying that the labor bill would have been around $200k !!! Getting a bunch of free labor nad parts kinda warps the true costs to build something, doesn't it ?!!! If that were the TRUE cost of manufacture, you LSR should have been $100 by comparison !

Rules ? You call that a rule book ? Gad, F1 & CART designers would LOVE to have such an open rule book !

Again, the question is : WHO CARES ????????

It's obvious that you have absolutely no comprehension what goes into a top level road race car. Give it up befor you make an even bigger fool of yourself !

And somehow you have managed to ignore your own gaffaw with the turbine, genius boy ( or should that be Mullet Head ?)

Sorry for the name calling, just using your own favorite method of squirming while on the hook.

[Robin Plummer]

I've got to hand it to you "Franklin" for being able to make a post that has 65 replys!!.

You seem a very intense, technical person. Why don't you post a picture of you on this forum?

[Franklin]

I might consider that, but first I'll need to get a decent photo of myself taken (my most recent one is a passport photo that looks more like a police mug shot).