Aussie Racing Cars

[Oaksnaf]

Hmm, id have to say though (i could be 100% wrong) but most of the drivers in the field race Aussie Racing cars because they love the category, they love the driving, they love the racing of that style, its cheap, effective, and maintainable, aswell as whole bucket of fun. Rather than your more serious racers going through Formula Ford, then perhaps overseas,or F3, or GT production, Carrera Cup etc etc.

Some of the field has no prior racing experience, most however have karting experience. A few in sport sedans.

Im not having a go at the category, becuase it is very successful, but most of the drivers in this series are 25+.

It seems the category is a way of promoting "motorsport can be fun, affordable, and realistic" and whats more its very successful being apart of the V8 support categories. Had it been elsewhere like under AMRS i dont think the category would reach its potential.

[Spunky]

Having been at WP I can assure you that there was not 25 000 people there, not even if you count all the sheep that surround the track.
Aussie racers seem to be an entertaining catagory, and I have heard all positives from the spectators point of view.
There does appear to be someone around at the moment trying to make trouble for the catagory owner, sending out emails about the catagory that are not very nice.

[mac]

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

Hmm, id have to say though (i could be 100% wrong) but most of the drivers in the field race Aussie Racing cars because they love the category, they love the driving, they love the racing of that style, its cheap, effective, and maintainable, aswell as whole bucket of fun. Rather than your more serious racers going through Formula Ford, then perhaps overseas,or F3, or GT production, Carrera Cup etc etc.

Aussie Racers are more for your driver focusing on touring cars.

There is a good mix of old and new as far as the drivers go - and certainly most of the guns up the front are young tearaways looking to make a name for themselves.

A quick run through the entry list shows the Ward brothers, Alistair McGregor, Nick Simmons, Paul Kemal, Brad Lowe, William Yarwood, Tim Monte, Jeff Davy, Travis Edwards and Colin Sieders as some of the young guys frequently challenging the front.

Add to that James Harrigan and David Sieders, who have shown some good form this year in the Lotus Trophy, and Klark Quinn and I would say the category offers a good mix catering to the young guys and the slightly more chronologically challenged ()drivers.

[Group'C']

[QUOTE
There does appear to be someone around at the moment trying to make trouble for the catagory owner, sending out emails about the catagory that are not very nice.[/QUOTE]

Its a pity that people start knocking things when they are doing so well.

We look like signing Aussie race cars up for next year to run at Baskerville. Our dealings have been excellent and I look forward to catchin up with them at Symmons Plains.

[Falcadore]

mac: has any ARC driver gone anywhere after ARC?

[bazil]

Falcodore,

Not sure of any previuos winners from ARC going on to better things but Brad Lowes effort in the F/F at Oran Park suggests there is more in the future for him.(Pole and a win in his 1st National drive).
Williamsf1 has the right attitude when it comes to ARC, very Phil-osofical me thinks...

As for G.T.R'S crowd assesment it would be difficult for him to form an opinion on the crowd as he spent most of the time enjoying the Hi-tech displays at the back of his favourite Supercar Team.(tounge Firmly in cheek)

[mixxer]

No I dont have any actual proof

Nuff said,
I wonder whether you'd question the crowd figures for any of the AMRS events or the rounds under the former Procar banner, Im guessing you would just take what they say as being gospel.
Like I said nuff said.

Its a pity that people start knocking things when they are doing so well

Its a given that some would knock it just because of it being run under AVESCO, these same people are the ones that believe the only motorsport classes that the general public want are the classes that they themselves happen to be interested in.

[cav]

Aussie Racers have only really come into prominance in the last 2 years so it is reasonable that as yet there are no names that have progressed but i bet you will see plenty in the next couple of years. Brad lowe who drives the WPS team car is obviously a top talent, he won at Oran Park in Formula Ford but he didnt win in Aussie Racing which indicates that there is a real level of excellent competition in the class. I have heard that Lowe was to have a test with Craig Gore but he broke his collarbone and will do it later in the year.

Simmons who is only 17 in the GRM car was on the front row of the grid at Oran Park but I think his race experience showed and it didnt transfer to a result .I reckon another season in the class will see him as a real driver asset to GRM. I did hear that next season Rogers will campaign a second Team car which should put a bit more pressure on Simmons to do well.

[cav]

By the way Mixer I acn tell you that the crowd figures for AMRS Eastern Creek was........wait for it 450 payers, not 4500 but four hundred and fifty. It might sound crazy but it is a fact. I didnt go myself but I consider the series to be a success in a different sort of way. It appeals to plenty of competitors and fills a gap in the sport, Every category is not suited to running with the V8s for many reasons so you cant do a comparison at all. if you went to philip island you can tell us how many people were there. Fact is the Aussie Racer drivers do perform in front of the huge crowds and have the support of a major player in Craig Gore and WPS and co.

[mixxer]

Here's the thing Cav, crowd numbers mean nothing to me, I go for the smell, the feel, the atmosphere if you will, of course ultimately for any series to survive they need to have a stable spectator base but as I said numbers are not my thing. However if I was forced to guess Id say there was anywhere from 2500 - 4000 people on the Island Sund'y (the changing weather kept people away for sure) but its a guess like I said.

I have an auto engineering background so I can understand and appreciated the work that goes into car preparation and as such I think it gives me a good grounding, good enough to enjoy through understanding all forms of motorsport from karts to formula cars, club racing to tourers, I have an interest in them all.

Like I said in the previous post I'm sick n tired of people on internet forums who refuse to even go to certain motorsport events yet have the audacity to tell those that do go what they should and shouldn't be supporting based on their own lopsided and biased views.
On the other hand there are some here that truely offer up a balanced view on issues that should be raised, and they manage to do it without prejudice or malice.

No more from me on this issue

My apologies to the original thread poster for rambling OT............................. again.

[mac]

Brad Lowe could be a superstar. He has been instantly quick in Aussie Racers this year and was very impressive in FF. I would say Craig Gore is keeping a very close eye on him.

Other guys who I think could perform well in different categories are Tim Monte, Jeff Davy and Paul Kemal. They are all super drivers.

As for racers going to other classes. Klark Quinn was the first to step up from Aussie Racers, moving into Carrera Cup last season - and he performed quite admirably too.

David Sieders ran in Formula Ford and Aussie Racers last season and was quick in both. He is racing in FF and Lotus Trophy this year and is always at the sharp end.

And James Harrigan is racing an Exige in Lotus Trophy and is absolutely flying in his first season in the series.

As cav mentioned, the series is only relatively new, so the number of drivers moving on at this point is only small-ish.

[cav]

Mixer,I do agree with you,the only point i was making is that comparisons of events really have no validity as they are very successful in their own right.

I also agree with you Mac,if you can win in Aussie Racers you more than likely have a fair bit of talent and the reality is that you dont need a huge amount of money to demonstrate it. As I posted a few pages back it costs big bucks to go further in the sport and the numbers you hear bandied around are only available to a select few and it appears that at least Aussie Racers is giving those with talent the opportunity which was previously not available and wether they move forward or not they appear to be having the time of their lives racing hard in the closest competition you will see in this country.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by cav

Aussie Racers have only really come into prominance in the last 2 years so it is reasonable that as yet there are no names that have progressed but i bet you will see plenty in the next couple of years. Brad lowe who drives the WPS team car is obviously a top talent, he won at Oran Park in Formula Ford but he didnt win in Aussie Racing which indicates that there is a real level of excellent competition in the class. I have heard that Lowe was to have a test with Craig Gore but he broke his collarbone and will do it later in the year.

Simmons who is only 17 in the GRM car was on the front row of the grid at Oran Park but I think his race experience showed and it didnt transfer to a result .I reckon another season in the class will see him as a real driver asset to GRM. I did hear that next season Rogers will campaign a second Team car which should put a bit more pressure on Simmons to do well.

They have been around at the same level of 'prominence' for around five years with it having been in the country for about another year or two prior to that.

All power and kudos to Brad Lowe, but until Lowe, ARC has been a category, like the Brutes, where drivers from other categories went to, either to have fun or because careers were in holding patterns and this was the presented option against not racing at all, and thus has never really been recognised as a driver development category. Carrera Cup's first season was like that too and it broke the mould in its second season.

Monte, Davy and Kemal have been in ARCs for a few years now, if they are to be progressive drivers then this years needs to be their last in this class. Quinn has been in Carrera Cup for three years, almost since the category started and was in Formula Ford before that. Both before ARC.

And as you say, there is Seiders, who has been racing other categories prior to ARC.

MoPro's categories are very much a sideways rather than upwards step.

Whether Lowe is the exception, or the beginning of a new trend we'll see next year.

[mac]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

They have been around at the same level of 'prominence' for around five years with it having been in the country for about another year or two prior to that.

I would say that they have only really been around in any great prominence for three years (this being the third). Whatever the case, it is nothing compared to the longevity of the likes of FF.

Originally Posted by Falcadore

All power and kudos to Brad Lowe, but until Lowe, ARC has been a category, like the Brutes, where drivers from other categories went to, either to have fun or because careers were in holding patterns and this was the presented option against not racing at all, and thus has never really been recognised as a driver development category.

That's rubbish.

Guys like Monte, Davy, Yarwood and Edwards all came to Aussie Racers out of karts - so what if it was cheaper than Formula Ford!? Doesn't make it a slight on the driving standards.

Are you telling me Dick Johnson took Tim Monte on because he though, "oh, here's a guy who's career is in a 'holding pattern'"?

Maybe Garry Rogers thought, "let's grab a 17 year old kid out of karts and put his career in a holding pattern"?

William Yarwood must have thought, "Hmmm - I've just finished 2nd in the world go-karting championships, if only there was a series out there that would stall my career ....."

As for driving standards, I'm much more willing to listen to guys like John Faulkner and Tony D'Alberto who were waxing lyrical about the cars and the competition after racing at Eastern Creek last year.

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Monte, Davy and Kemal have been in ARCs for a few years now, if they are to be progressive drivers then this years needs to be their last in this class.

Agreed. This is Monte's third year, Davy's second, and Kemal's fourth. All of them would be successful in other classes - it's a matter of getting the right deal together.

[Oaksnaf]

Originally Posted by Group'C'

Its a pity that people start knocking things when they are doing so well.

We look like signing Aussie race cars up for next year to run at Baskerville. Our dealings have been excellent and I look forward to catchin up with them at Symmons Plains.

Ive driven around Symonds PLains and been to Baskerville for a local state round. Id have to say id rather see Baskerville hold the Aussie Racing cars, despite the fact that you would get bigger crowds at Symonds PLains and those new facilities are a real treat, pity when HSV had a driver training day they decided they had no respect for the facilities and damaged some of it. But yeh the back straight of Baskerville would be awesome to watch the Aussie Racing Cars go down, you get so flaming close to them, and even watching the HQ's barge down their at their limited speeds was a treat.

And the hill poses for perfect viewing too. But id say you would get a bigger turn out at Symonds Plains.

[cav]

I was talking to a Kart Guy at Oran Park and he indicated that there are a lot of Karters who are seriously ready to run next year in Aussie Racers. Saying that all the drivers will get a break is plain crazy,as I have said before progression is based on ability strongly backed by budget and no matter what the ability level without budget they are racing for enjoyment and as I said Aussie Racing seems to be providing that.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by mac

I would say that they have only really been around in any great prominence for three years (this being the third). Whatever the case, it is nothing compared to the longevity of the likes of FF.


That's rubbish.

Guys like Monte, Davy, Yarwood and Edwards all came to Aussie Racers out of karts - so what if it was cheaper than Formula Ford!? Doesn't make it a slight on the driving standards.

Are you telling me Dick Johnson took Tim Monte on because he though, "oh, here's a guy who's career is in a 'holding pattern'"?

Maybe Garry Rogers thought, "let's grab a 17 year old kid out of karts and put his career in a holding pattern"?

William Yarwood must have thought, "Hmmm - I've just finished 2nd in the world go-karting championships, if only there was a series out there that would stall my career ....."

As for driving standards, I'm much more willing to listen to guys like John Faulkner and Tony D'Alberto who were waxing lyrical about the cars and the competition after racing at Eastern Creek last year.


Agreed. This is Monte's third year, Davy's second, and Kemal's fourth. All of them would be successful in other classes - it's a matter of getting the right deal together.

Hehehe - I remember the Faulkner incident. He was driving one of the 'Fords' which upset his Holden paymasters at the time and caused a little stir.

It was a generalisation I realise, I did know in more recent times that karters have been joining the series, but none had yet moved on from it and simply forgot it.

As for the V8 link... what you think ARC is special in this regard? V8 teams have been supporting drivers in all sorts of classes over the years, even 20 year old one-make Geminis, yes you heard right. Some of those drivers have kicked on, and some of those have not, and some have sunk without trace. Some of them never having had their V8 connections come to light.

I am not wanting to appear to be knocking the class. I know some drivers who have driven and raced these machines, and I've had an official of the class berate me at length over an issue of costs, and I've been told stuff which contradicts a lot of the glowing 'press release' style of 'how good is this?'. Should I say nought or ask questions? When someone says a Carrera Cup veteran like Klark Quinn is an ARC prodigy should I shut up or point out the falsehood?

And why is holding pattern not a correct anaology? Fabian Coulthard is about to win the Carrera Cup, but surely his talent was sufficiently proven last year. Why would you not describe this year, while eminently successful as a holding pattern?

Surely if the budget was there for these guys, they would be moving into Formula Ford, a class where all the V8 teams know is hard fought, and teaches you the basics of setting up a complicated racing car and testing. A kart driver of note should already have reasonable race craft. Developing driver need cars which are technically challenging because in V8Supercar you have a class that is so mechanically adjustable even the very best can get lost in set up.

In the meantime, while searching for the right deal in your own language, their career is on hold. You more or less said it yourself, the language just has negative connotations that you are railling against in a form of denial.

A class like ARC, heck ANY class at all four, even three years is too long to spend. Any driver who had spent three years in Formula Ford in the national series is either going to be champion that year, or doomed long term.

[Oaksnaf]

To a large extent im with Falcadore on this one, the caliber of drivers is basically not there, whilst we mention the likes of Brad Lowe, he is a rare exception to the rule that half these guys have never driven in competition before (because some of them are friends of the Ward's and were basically put into these cars to help the series get off its feet). The rest are karters, and some with sedan experience. And it shows in the racing, its of course action packed, spills, thrills, rollovers almost every race. The amount of errors, simple errors is overwhelming in this category.

If you have spent three years in national formula ford and have not won the series thats basically the end in terms of overseas success really, unless you can buy your way there.

And why was Formula Holden established? The connection between Formula Holden and Holden teams in V8's was there and will be in the future (the category is about to be bought out (all hush hush)).

As ive said before, Aussie Racing Car drivers appear to be your fun loving enthusiasts out there for a ball. Much the same with Formula Vee. You of course get a few out there who are looking to further their career eg: Asher Johnston who will race with G-Force motorsport in Formula Ford next season purely because he was able to demonstrate his skills in front of that audience.

Well Aussie Racing Cars is vastly entertaining and is good value for money, but i fail to see it as a stepping stone to V8's. You must drive something else during the season as Brad Lowe has showed.

[mac]

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

And it shows in the racing, its of course action packed, spills, thrills, rollovers almost every race. The amount of errors, simple errors is overwhelming in this category.

Yes and no. Look at the guys in the front third of the field - there are very few errors amongst the classy guys. In fact I am staggered that there is so few errors up the front considering the amont of panel-to-panel racing that goes on.

And I would put the number of errors down through the field down to the fact that the racing is so much more intense than in any other category. When you are mixing it as much as these guys do (three wide through corners etc.) it is only natural that there will be some mistakes.

Regarding the skill level, when John Faulkner comes out and says, "last time I raced the standard wasn't so great, but now the talent level is A1", I'm prepared to listen.

And when you see James Ward pass two cars by going around the outside of them through the dogleg at Oran Park, and none of them go off, the first thing you think is not, "what amateurs!"

And when someone like Phil Ward who, love him or hate him, no one would doubt has an abundance of driving skill, is struggling at the back of the top 10 at Oran Park, I would say the guys giving it to him must be rather talented.

PS. I must admit - this has been one of the most enjoyable, rationally discussed conversations I have seen or been apart of on these boards ...... if only there were more!

[cav]

You are obviuosly a F4000 supporter and that is fine but the reality is there is probably only 1 person in that calss who can drive and afford to do it properly to say there are no good drivers in Aussie Racing Cars is pretty dumb. You have cars that are obviously very quick and only rely on mechanical grip(no aero at all),I think the top 20 cars at Oran Park within a second going 4 wide into corners and all the same spec actually quicker than V8s on the bottom part of the circuit, to say that with the ferocity of racing that the drivers make simple errors is just ridiculous. I feel the reality is that no other class can equal the closeness and level of competitiveness that this class offers, you only have to look at the incar shots on TV to see how tight the racing is. John Faulkner and Tony D'aberto are pretty well respected and they raved about the level of competition and I think Faulkner has had a couple of runs (I think he drove one of the Pennzoil sponsored commodores at Eastern Creek. You would have to accept the opinion of drivers of their calibre.

By the way what do you race Oaksnaf.

To say the series is kicking on because the Wards have all their mates in it is pretty ridiculous, I have heard that Phil Ward has organised a lot of sponsorship for drivers but I would have thought that was a great thing to happen and has obviously added to the value of the class.

Oaksnaf, as you are a F4000 fan you could probably emulate the Aussie Racer success to get F4000 to be as successfull. As you indicate it would be pretty easy, first of all you could get 20 or so cars together( that would be easier than Aussie Racing as they are supposedly lying around in garages and you wouldnt have to build them like Phil Ward did) then you would get all your mates together and give them the cars, then you would only have to organise the budgets for them to run and bingo F4000 would be a success. Now we know that wont happen, the point I am making is that making the whole thing as has been the case with Aussie Racing must have been a huge task and you cannot take anything away from what has been achieved. As I have said before it is not sensible to compare as there can be no comparison made, and I bet if you ask any driver in Aussie Racing Cars if they have any aspiration to race F4000 I bet the answer will be no and to compare it with formula Vee is a joke and you know it.

[cav]

And also I dont see people like Craig Gore and WPS supporting the likes of formula Vee or F4000. It is a sensational class for a whole raft of reasons and that is why it is such a success and I give it full marks on every front.

Still waiting to hear what you race of have raced Oaksnaf and if you havent raced anything and want to you could become mates with Phil Ward and he will probably just give you a car. Give him a call.

[Oaksnaf]

Why cant i compare Formula Vee to Aussie Racing cars? Both have 30+ grids, both supply us with excellent racing, and both have drivers who dont have aspirations to make it to the top, they are just there for the fun. Its a geneal comparision yes, but its not totally useless.

And mac, fair comment. The big advantage for this category is that they are not open wheelers you can have body contact with no problems, you dont tangle wheels and damage suspension every so often.

And about Phil Ward not having all his mates enter the category, how do you think it got of its feet, he had to have cars on the grid to stimulate interest. Ask the guys who race the cars, how they got into it, "oh Phil made me (with laughs). Im not bagging this approach at all, it was a well organised plan to show the crowd what the category has to offer. Now look where they are, providing the best action against categories like Formula Ford, V8's, Carrera Cup. And that aint bad. It could be said its the most exciting racing to watch in Australia.....

Im not really a F4000 supporter, i just dont like to bag categories so much. If they thought the series was dead, it wouldnt be running today. And wait a second, if you had 20 F4000 cars on the grid, mates or no mates, that provided great racing wouldn't you watch it? Or would you watch a race that had 8 cars with the likes of Peter Hackett winning by miles? its called the entertainment level. And if someone was rich enough, and had the time to do it, it is very doable. And it doesn't cost over $2000 to enter an Aussie Race Car to enter. They have much lower costs and provide much better value. Instant winner.


Also if you were to ask 90% of racers if they wanted to pay to race in F4000 of course it would be 'no'. The category has an image problem and more problems. Whilst Aussie Race Cars are booming with image success.

And as for me.... i dont race (yet)... i organise others to race.

[Falcadore]

So WPS don't have an F4000 team. So what?

Although in times past both HRT and Gibson Motor Sport had F4000 teams, and both Team Dynamik and Orrcon Racing started life as a F4000 teams.

The world doesn't live by what's black with a round silver logo.

[emjaya]

Must say something if Phil Ward has 30 mates willing to spent 2000 grand a race for the past three years.Something about Phil Ward.Something about ARC's

[Oaksnaf]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

So WPS don't have an F4000 team. So what?

Although in times past both HRT and Gibson Motor Sport had F4000 teams, and both Team Dynamik and Orrcon Racing started life as a F4000 teams.

The world doesn't live by what's black with a round silver logo.

And did Mark Webber, Will Power, Greg Murphy, Rick Kelly, Skaife... and more race Aussie Racing cars, or did they race F4000 (Formula Holden).

Clearly times have changed with the direct link to V8's via HRT and co in the current category. But that does not mean that same relationship can be built up again. I am yet to see an Aussie Racing Car Driver make a move to V8's succesfully. Aussie Racing cars are easy to drive, F4000 are not easy to drive.

Everyone hear appears to love Aussie Racing Cars, but until people start to pop up in V8 categories as a direct invovlement in the category i will continue to see it as a category which holds high entertainment level, but does not boast a career in motorsport to stem from the series.



But anyways enough of that from me for now. Id like to talk about the actual cars themselves:

Cars are constructed on a purpose built steel tubular space frame chassis with integral roll cage construction designed and approved to stringent engineering specifications. The lightweight composite body is a faithfully designed caricature of its full size counterpart featuring opening doors, boot and lift off front section. Powered by a 1.2 litre 125 BHP twin cam 16 valve engine that revs to 11500 RPM. the performance is exhilarating. The 450 kg all up weight provides an incredible power to weight ratio that allows the little machine to rocket to a speed of well in excess of 200KPH The Lap times achieved are staggering, at Oran Park for example the cars lap within 6 seconds of a V8 Supercar.

Is the body shell made out of fibre glass?

They were also talking about G-forces, i dont think you would get a lot of G-forces out of these cars at best maybe 1.3-1.4 because a F3 pulls around 1.6 at Eastern Creek, a F4000 pulls is around 2.2 at Philip Island. So i dont know about these little guys pulling many G-s.

Maybe i will just ring up Phil Ward and find out what i want about the category and post back here with my findings.