A New TV Deal (U.S. Fans May Want to Take a Deep Breath First)

[Tenoch]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Except Steel Cage Death Match Extreme Sport Channel is not on any basic cable systems like ESPN is. So if you want to watch Flying Fists of Fury 26 followed by the Leafs and the Flames, then possibly the IRL you definitely aren't a casual fan...

I guess what I have in terms of cable is not basic

All I'm saying is that the true core of IRL fans like myself and most of the people around here will follow the series wherever it goes. I however feel that spending millions on a tv package that bumps coverage for the LPGA is not worth the few fans that may or may not watch.

[Amar7605]

If the problem is trying to get new fans, then perhaps what the IRL needs to do is to increase its presence in sports media. By that I mean get reported on more. It seems like every other Sportscenter on ESPN has something about NASCAR, be it a recap of the race, some incident during the race, or a driver profile or two. What happens is that people end up becoming aware of what is going on in NASCAR, even if they are not hardcore fans. Sooner or later, those non-fans check out a race or two on TV. Then they get hooked.

This is what Champ Car gravely had a problem with, and it seems like the only time that the IRL is talked about is when the Indy 500 is near or something that Danica does.

The IRL needs to find a way to get into the regular, daily sports reports.

[Dutton]

The problem is you get into the chicken and the egg situation. NASCAR gets more attention because it is more popular; the IRL will struggle to get mentions because it is not popular.

I do agree that getting IRL into regular round-ups, and such, would absolutely be a great thing; the problem is finding that way. I have often thought about this one, but it is tought to see how in the short-term. The long-term would look after itself if the IRL sorted things out and provided a series that people cannot help but want to watch, but that can hardly be said to be an easier task. Beyond paying stations to give time to talking about the series, it is a bit difficult to see a way.

It would, appear, going by this thread, that Versus is cheaper than the current arrangements. Perhaps the saved cash (or at least some portion of it) could be channeled into getting propaganda/increased-proper-reporting pumped out on regular cable stations?

I don't know. It is a truly difficult one. Anyone got any ideas?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Amar7605

This is what Champ Car gravely had a problem with, and it seems like the only time that the IRL is talked about is when the Indy 500 is near or something that Danica does.

The IRL needs to find a way to get into the regular, daily sports reports.

So often it amazes me people put the cart before the horse.

A lot of it has to do with taking past history of public acceptance for granted and thinking if we build it and/or make it available, people will come. I don't think whatever tv deal the irl had landed would make a bit of difference because the product stinks. Plus you have 2 issues. One of which was the unnecessary open wheel war which drove many away, probably most for good. Second, in the modern ages one has many, many passive and active entertainment options to chose from.

Let's look at the product:

The drivers of which there are several categories:
1. Dour european formula racers with the personalities of rocks
2. Feminine men racers obsessed with teeth whitening, shoe shopping and dancing.
3. Rent-a-racers that have no profile even in the motor racing business.
4. A petulant, pouting, whining drama queen racer.

None of the above is appealing to the general public.

The engines:
All the same and they sound terrible.

The cars:
All the same and they look terrible.

The tracks:
Certainly some gems but a poor schedule altogether.

So if you want coverage in newspapers and elsewhere you have to have something interesting that the public would want. There is nothing appealing at all about the irl at the moment. Get your house in order first.

[Dutton]

Most certainly longterm prosperity has to be based on getting a good product organised, since, as is obvious, if that is done then getting better coverage starts to look after itself.

However, in order to exist long enough in the short-term to be able to organise the longterm, there needs to be a large enough interest to keep it afloat (even if this level of interest is far from spectacular). The current scenario is distinctly dodgy, and, if the claims in this thread are true, is only getting worse. Logic would dictate that if nothing is done in the short-term that extinction is inevitable (and in no long time).

Thus, it could be said, a short-term, temporary, "holding" elastoplast is necessary for base survival.

The preferable option could be developing a marketing stratgy that can help both the present and work in the future. This can surely only be attained via finding a way to get more mentions on TV (they can be very short, but a fair increase in frequency is needed). Things like 5-10 second slots in the ad-breaks of multiple channels: says the series name, the date of the next race, and what time what channel will be showing it. If said channels don't want other channles mentioned, then I guess they could be directed to the website instead: the critical aspect is having the name of the series mentioned, combined with suitably eye-catching clips. Beyond that? I don't know what the advertising for races is like in the local area of any given event, but, going by race attendances, it would suggest pumping resources into this side of things couldn't hurt. There is no point wasting resources trying to get people to travel great distances, but there is worth in trying to persuade people nearby that is a good afternoon out on a Sunday - on this account, bring in a good level of non-track related "fun" stuff that families can get into and what not.

It is the choice between changing nothing and trying something. Given the status quo is certainly not working, it would seem trying something else is the only truly viable route.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

So often it amazes me people put the cart before the horse.

A lot of it has to do with taking past history of public acceptance for granted and thinking if we build it and/or make it available, people will come. I don't think whatever tv deal the irl had landed would make a bit of difference because the product stinks. Plus you have 2 issues. One of which was the unnecessary open wheel war which drove many away, probably most for good. Second, in the modern ages one has many, many passive and active entertainment options to chose from.

Let's look at the product:

The drivers of which there are several categories:
1. Dour european formula racers with the personalities of rocks
2. Feminine men racers obsessed with teeth whitening, shoe shopping and dancing.
3. Rent-a-racers that have no profile even in the motor racing business.
4. A petulant, pouting, whining drama queen racer.

None of the above is appealing to the general public.

The engines:
All the same and they sound terrible.

The cars:
All the same and they look terrible.

The tracks:
Certainly some gems but a poor schedule altogether.

So if you want coverage in newspapers and elsewhere you have to have something interesting that the public would want. There is nothing appealing at all about the irl at the moment. Get your house in order first.

No offense, but most of us, including you most likely, would give our eye teeth (pun intended) to have the career and opportunities Helio has had. He speaks well for the sport, is handy behind the wheel and I really don't care how many shoes he has. He doesn't drink in public, get arrested or embarrass himself, his team or his sponsors. We could do a lot worse.

Petulant, drama queen racer? PT only recently got a ride again...

Funny, but a lot of these folks you are railing against here MS are carrying almost exactly the same resumes as the folks you thought were going to carry CC across the finish line to a Brave New World these past few seasons...

Are things "perfect" in IRL world? Heck no. But like anything else that has been down as long as it has, you have to start somewhere. The trick for the IRL is to see how quickly the things that aren't working are shed along the way...

[mirwin]

Originally Posted by Tenoch

All I'm saying is that the true core of IRL fans like myself and most of the people around here will follow the series wherever it goes. I however feel that spending millions on a tv package that bumps coverage for the LPGA is not worth the few fans that may or may not watch.

I agree in a way, I will follow the series wherever it goes.

But the teams need $150-200 million in sponsorship to run the season, and I don't think Versus is going to help raise that money.

[indycool]

There is NO team that needs that much in sponsorship, or is getting it, no matter how many cars they run. The normal number for smaller teams is $3-4 million per car and $5m or so for a competitive one.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

No offense, but most of us, including you most likely, would give our eye teeth (pun intended) to have the career and opportunities Helio has had. He speaks well for the sport, is handy behind the wheel and I really don't care how many shoes he has. He doesn't drink in public, get arrested or embarrass himself, his team or his sponsors. We could do a lot worse.

Petulant, drama queen racer? PT only recently got a ride again...

Funny, but a lot of these folks you are railing against here MS are carrying almost exactly the same resumes as the folks you thought were going to carry CC across the finish line to a Brave New World these past few seasons...

Are things "perfect" in IRL world? Heck no. But like anything else that has been down as long as it has, you have to start somewhere. The trick for the IRL is to see how quickly the things that aren't working are shed along the way...

Is the irl starting anywhere though? It's not looking good right now.

Certainly Helio and others may have positive attributes, that I could not take away from them, but that is not the point. The point is, as a group of drivers, does it interest the mass general public right now to follow them as fans? and the answer is no.

You must have a short memory as I criticized Champcar for having many of the same failings in the past.

[Amar7605]

Another thing that NASCAR has done well that open wheel in general hasn't done is that NASCAR has made the drivers more personable. In other words, the marketing is such that people can relate to the drivers. Mountainstar has made a good point on this one. In the IRL or any open wheel series for that matter, we're suppossed to root for the team.

As noble as that is (because racing is a team effort; no driver can do everything by himself), people in general can't relate to a team. There's no face to a team. So, the IRL needs to promote its personalites. They are doing that with Danica and Helo dancing, but more has to be done.

People relate to drivers, then they support the teams that they are on. But doing this, however, is fighting open wheel tradition.

Whenever I ask NASCAR fans who they like, they don't say the team, they say the driver. Moreover, at my store whenever I have a NASCAR race on the tv customers don't ask how a team is doing; they ask about drivers.

[gttouring]

yeah this won't be bad for the satellite holders, infact VS. channel has a new HD one now so it works well, now wil they bring proper racer fan coverage?
Spike was crap for CC, and Outdoor channel (previous Versus i think) was garbage coverage for the Dakar and Rally so bad i don't think you can see WRC int he states anymore...wah!
but versus is atleast bumping up the channel quality it could be good.
if VS will be like SpeedChannel or ESPN or something they need to start soemwhere.

[mirwin]

Originally Posted by indycool

There is NO team that needs that much in sponsorship, or is getting it, no matter how many cars they run. The normal number for smaller teams is $3-4 million per car and $5m or so for a competitive one.

How can a team spend $5m per car, when the driver is getting paid several $millions?

Miller recently stated that it costs $7-8m per year to run a competitive car.

$150million total for a grid of 25 cars works out to an average of $6m each.

[indycool]

Very few of those drivers are getting paid millions. A Penske or Ganassi or AGR might be up around $8-9 million per car. A Dreyer and Reinbold about $5 million. A Conquest $3-4 tops. And some of those drivers are bringing sponsors and "buying rides." Usually, that means the sponsor is paying the driver's salary.

Brings up an old story. In dealing with a potential sponsor, the sponsor asked Penske how much it would cost. Penske's reply: "How fast do you wanna go?"

[mirwin]

Originally Posted by indycool

Very few of those drivers are getting paid millions. A Penske or Ganassi or AGR might be up around $8-9 million per car. A Dreyer and Reinbold about $5 million. A Conquest $3-4 tops. And some of those drivers are bringing sponsors and "buying rides." Usually, that means the sponsor is paying the driver's salary.

So how much do you think it costs to field the entire grid?

[indycool]

I wouldn't have the slightest idea. Reason: However much money a race team can generate through sponsors, tradeoffs, etc., is how much they'll spend. If they have a surplus of cash, they'll hire a couple more engineers or buy a new motorcoach or an extra cook. They'll spend whatever they have. It doesn't necessarily apply to what running the race car costs.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Is the irl starting anywhere though? It's not looking good right now.

Certainly Helio and others may have positive attributes, that I could not take away from them, but that is not the point. The point is, as a group of drivers, does it interest the mass general public right now to follow them as fans? and the answer is no.

You must have a short memory as I criticized Champcar for having many of the same failings in the past.

I am too old and tired for the tit-for-tat thing. Towards the end of CC's existence, yes, you were critical. This was not always the case. It is not especially important either.

Is the IRL starting anywhere? This is the loaded question portion of the program where I cheerfully answer: "Yes!" and list the 500 among the attributes. Then you answer with a long list of things including TV ratings, attendance real and perceived, then I and others will answer back, then you and others will refute it and yadda, yadda, yadda.

Since I already have some idea of how this is going to go, I will spare us both and go back to trying to figure out what Ferrari knows about Kimi that made them sign him for 2 more years because based on what I have seen so far this season, the move makes no sense - especially when you have a very hungry R Kubica and a really hungry F Alonso chomping at the bit to get the seat.

So anyway, have a nice evening, let me summarize by saying (if you don't mind) that you don't like the IRL much, if at all. I like it some although I feel a tug at my heart in the direction of ALMS - but I do believe the IRL is heading in the right direction - it just won't happen in one or two seasons.

[Amar7605]

John is right - change is not going to happen all-of-a-sudden. Someone either in this thread or another, basically said that what many of want from the IRL is analagous to a microvave over a stove. We want everything to happen instantly instead of letting things evolve with time.

It took ten years for open-wheel to get back together. It'll probably take at least another decade for droves of fans to come roaring back. We, as the die-hard fans, just have to be patient and think long-term on things.

[Amar7605]

John is right - change is not going to happen all-of-a-sudden. Someone either in this thread or another, basically said that what many of want from the IRL is analagous to a microvave over a stove. We want everything to happen instantly instead of letting things evolve with time.

It took ten years for open-wheel to get back together. It'll probably take at least another decade for droves of fans to come roaring back. We, as the die-hard fans, just have to be patient and think long-term on things.

[Amar7605]

John is right - change is not going to happen all-of-a-sudden. Someone either in this thread or another, basically said that what many of want from the IRL is analagous to a microvave over a stove. We want everything to happen instantly instead of letting things evolve with time.

It took ten years for open-wheel to get back together. It'll probably take at least another decade for droves of fans to come roaring back. We, as the die-hard fans, just have to be patient and think long-term on things.

[Amar7605]

John is right - change is not going to happen all-of-a-sudden. Someone either in this thread or another, basically said that what many of want from the IRL is analagous to a microvave over a stove. We want everything to happen instantly instead of letting things evolve with time.

It took ten years for open-wheel to get back together. It'll probably take at least another decade for droves of fans to come roaring back. We, as the die-hard fans, just have to be patient and think long-term on things.

[mirwin]

Originally Posted by indycool

I wouldn't have the slightest idea.

Thanks for that, so the numbers you posted are most likely wrong. I don't understand how I can be wrong, yet you haven't got the slightest idea.

[bil588]

ABC and VERSUS tv lineup set

10-6-08

http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=12639

When was the last time indy car racing had a preview of the next day's race?

VERSUS also will air a one-hour preview show the day before each race that will feature qualification highlights and all of the relevant IndyCar Series stories of that weekend. Additionally, the network will feature extensive coverage of all the qualification days at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway leading up to the Indianapolis 500. The complete Month of May schedule will be announced shortly.

[Dutton]

Man, I just pray Versus are going to let TSN buy their coverage. I fear that this is unlikely, given, I assume, Versus are looking at this from the exclusivity context.

Does the Indycar site stream the races?

[Amar7605]

Originally Posted by bil588

ABC and VERSUS tv lineup set

10-6-08

http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=12639

When was the last time indy car racing had a preview of the next day's race?

VERSUS also will air a one-hour preview show the day before each race that will feature qualification highlights and all of the relevant IndyCar Series stories of that weekend. Additionally, the network will feature extensive coverage of all the qualification days at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway leading up to the Indianapolis 500. The complete Month of May schedule will be announced shortly.

Man, I was hoping that ABC would have at least 2 more races to air in the latter half of the season. Maybe Detroit and Homestead.

[indycool]

More on Versus.....

http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=12684