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Old 8 Sep 2017, 01:43 (Ref:3765303)   #476
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British GT, Blancpain and BTCC are taking up 3 of the very few weekends where Brands is legally allowed to host races on the full GP track, and even then there's a 6pm noise curfew. It's happened to a huge amount of tracks in the UK, they got hammered with lawsuits into cutting down full-noise days and if they breach them they'll get sued into oblivion (see Mallory Park). There is no "suck it up" culture with racetrack NIMBYs in the UK.

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Old 8 Sep 2017, 01:48 (Ref:3765306)   #477
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I don't know shipping times. Is it possible to ship everything by sea from Kuwait to Florida in a month?
Company I work for ships things from South East Asia to the West Coast of the US pretty often. Shipping times are usually about a month. Not sure if that helps.
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Old 8 Sep 2017, 03:44 (Ref:3765315)   #478
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You have to remember that both Audi R8Rs at Charlotte had issues with punctures, Texas was insanely hot even though it was a night race in 2000, a Corvette lost a tire big time at Las Vegas, and at Texas in '01.

I think that IMSA and even to a large degree Grand Am out grew high banked rovals for the same reason Indy Car eventually got rid of almost every one of them aside from TMS. Too much stress on the cars, too high of speed on the banking and such things took too much out of the driver's hands.
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Old 8 Sep 2017, 13:46 (Ref:3765438)   #479
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They have said that they'll have 2 in the Americas, which meant Kuwait was out.

I don't know shipping times. Is it possible to ship everything by sea from Kuwait to Florida in a month?
And you believe everything Neveu is (quoted to be) saying?

If the Feb. race is the first weekend (the weekend straight after Daytona), it'll give a 5-6 week gap to Sebring, sounds doable. Notice that the first weekend in Feb. usually host the Bathurst 12H but I doubt the FIA gives rats about that.
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Old 8 Sep 2017, 13:52 (Ref:3765441)   #480
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And you believe everything Neveu is (quoted to be) saying?

If the Feb. race is the first weekend (the weekend straight after Daytona), it'll give a 5-6 week gap to Sebring, sounds doable. Notice that the first weekend in Feb. usually host the Bathurst 12H but I doubt the FIA gives rats about that.
I don't believe him even in the slightest. But right now the only thing we've got is his word. So if what he says is true, then we won't have Kuwait now, we'll get Brazil or similar.

Given they said they wanted every WEC race to feel like an event, it's strange they're just dropping Silverstone and Mexico. Won't make anything popular by taking it away.
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Old 8 Sep 2017, 18:36 (Ref:3765480)   #481
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Seeing how out of touch several of the current ACO administration officials seem to be with how things are working, I'm tempted to not believe them/take anything they say with a grain of salt.

The problem with the WEC is that outside of Silverstone, Spa and Nurburgring, very few of their races have any serious pedigree. Especially since the WEC stuck with the 6 hour/1000km format for so long outside of LM and didn't really create any "classics" of their own. They needed more unique races from the start.
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Old 8 Sep 2017, 20:41 (Ref:3765499)   #482
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I'd really love to see these car run Potrero de los Funes. One of my favorite tracks I've ever seen racing on. Not sure how feasible it is to run there, but FIA GT1 went there through 2011 and they continue to hold local touring car races. I think it's lacking garage facilities like F1 tracks, but it should be about the same as Sebring?
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Old 9 Sep 2017, 00:59 (Ref:3765535)   #483
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No different than running at say Road America or Road Atlanta? Shouldn't be much different than Sebring in that respect.
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Old 9 Sep 2017, 02:42 (Ref:3765570)   #484
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I'm on to Texas 2001 with the rovals, so this is the last one.

Yeah, Texas 2000 was poor scheduling, like trying to put an F1 race in June, in Phoenix, or in July in Dallas.

I didn't see the Audi R8Rs have any punctures or blowouts during the Charlotte race in 2000, and there was no mention of them having particular issues in practice on the broadcast, so I don't know what to tell you.

Andy Pilgrim's blowout at Las Vegas in 2000 was driver error. That is, he knackered the tires with a lurid spin and slide a lap earlier, and he had to know that the wise course of action was to pit a lap later, not go firing off into Turn 1 at 160+ mph.

I think the infield at Las Vegas was the most problematic of the three. That course was strange for another reason though. That is, to my knowledge, it wasn't necessary for them to use the chicane and warm-up lane at all. Since they used the warm-up lane on the inside of oval Turns 3-4, they could have gone blasting on through oval Turns 1-2 uninterrupted, which also would have saved them the trouble of all that transitioning back and forth from the tri-oval banking to the apron, and vice versa.
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Old 9 Sep 2017, 03:10 (Ref:3765571)   #485
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I'd really love to see these car run Potrero de los Funes. One of my favorite tracks I've ever seen racing on. Not sure how feasible it is to run there, but FIA GT1 went there through 2011 and they continue to hold local touring car races. I think it's lacking garage facilities like F1 tracks, but it should be about the same as Sebring?
Potrero de los Funes is one of my favorite tracks too. The circuit remains fantastic even today but does not have pit building effectively and are armed with tent structures.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8LEyg602vs...boxes+2011.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-T_6Qn5Pm9e...600/boxes5.JPG

Termas de Rio Hondo is currently in a better position to receive the WEC with an impeccable circuit and a good structure of pit, although the circuit is not as exciting as Potrero.
Termas de Rio Hondo receives the WTCC and Moto GP every year.
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Old 9 Sep 2017, 05:51 (Ref:3765587)   #486
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I very much enjoy Potrero de los Funes as well, TF110.

Aside from not having the garages right on pit lane, it's fine. With how the verges and everything are done, it's basically an F1 street circuit, and I mean in the vein of Singapore (from just after Turn 16 to the exit of Turn 3), Valencia, or Sochi. Even so, the barriers are generally close to the track, and the surroundings and elevation changes are quite stunning. This also means you have no lack of frames of reference to discern the speed and maneuverability of the cars.

In addition, even the switchback section (Turns 16-19) is plenty wide all things considered.

For multi-class racing, I have thought that it might be better to bypass the Turn 11-13 chicane and add Tecpro or something like that on the outside of Turn 14.

Some other general information:

Termas de Rio Hondo itself has a population of roughly 28,000; Santiago del Estero, 70 km away, is about 245,000. San Luis is 14 km from Potrero de los Funes, with a population of 153,000 or so. Termas de Rio Hondo is ~400 km (approximately 50%) farther from Buenos Aires than San Luis.

Elevation:
Termas de Rio Hondo- ~870 ft
Potrero de los Funes- ~4,000 ft

(Lago (lake) Potrero de los Funes is a reservoir, and on the dam's Wikipedia page, the lake's surface elevation is listed as 3,970 ft.)
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Old 9 Sep 2017, 06:13 (Ref:3765590)   #487
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Apart from the nearly pancake-like topography and massive, empty surroundings, in terms of the circuit itself, Termas de Rio Hondo has four corners in particular where I would be concerned about the line getting pinched: Turns 3, 7, 9, and 14.

That last one is the final corner, and will put paid to any last-second attempt to make a move before the line.

Turn 3 could well bottle things up heading onto the longest straight, destroying anyone's hard work at getting a good launch off of Turn 2.

Turn 7 is as it was before the changes, but it's slower than Turn 5, and there's less of a flat-out run to the new Turn 9 as there is from T5 to T7. It could be tough to make anything happen there with the larger spread due to the accordion effect. Also, T9's impact is amplified by the road sweeping back to the right at T10, and so you're going to be spreading out again, single-file, starting the run to Turn 13.

Finally, the bend at Turn 12 will mess with attempts to line up a move into Turn 13.

On the other hand, Potrero de los Funes defies much of the conventional wisdom on overtaking when you're expressly designing a circuit. The long-duration, high-speed corners and sinuous nature of the circuit allow for a multitude of racing lines, and what is "ideal" largely depends on what the driver is trying to do. Furthermore, none of the longer flat-out stretches is preceded by a very slow corner, so the opening of the physical gaps between cars heading onto the major "straights" is greatly reduced, and the trailing car can mount an overtaking attempt that much more quickly and readily.

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Old 9 Sep 2017, 06:38 (Ref:3765594)   #488
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The races at Potrero are usually good. From the GT1 races I've seen there, the racing is always action packed. You're right about the corners. Even the tight turns have room. The tightest section 16-18 is uphill and there's room to make overtaking. The high speed turns and elevation changes are what makes this track for me. Not to mention some of the best scenery you can find.
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Old 10 Sep 2017, 21:07 (Ref:3765924)   #489
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I watched the Super TC 2000 race from earlier this year yesterday, and yes, again, good racing through the field at Potrero de los Funes. Competitive cars are very much able to stay in touch with one another. And blocking the car immediately behind is a double-edged sword, as the thrid in line can then get a heck of a run.

Yes, the scenery there is a match for pretty much any track anywhere.

It could use some cleaning and a new coat of paint in places, but that's par for the course. I'd look at adding banded tire barriers in some areas as well, especially outside of Turn 21. And I'd look at resurfacing Turns 20 and 21.
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Old 10 Sep 2017, 22:22 (Ref:3765932)   #490
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Going back to something that came up earlier, Potrero de los Funes is certainly a track where a "new classic" event can be built up from the ground. I don't see that being the case with a circuit like Termas de Rio Hondo.

Heck, and I know this may bother some people, but if Silverstone were a new track starting from scratch, in its current form, it is NOT a place where I would hold out much hope of being able to build a "new classic" event. The term "sterile" is often used to describe these new-build F1 circuits, and even the old ones remodeled for F1. Well, creating that great new thing is like breathing life into something, and it should go without saying, you're not going to "bring new life forth" in a sterile environment.

So, tracks (outside of France) that should be able to host the WEC, and where I think it is highly possible to build their own, great event are:
1. Phillip Island
2. Suzuka or Autopolis
3. Inje Autopia
4. Brno
5. Sachsenring* (with Ps and GTs split)
6. Monza or Mugello
7. Brands Hatch
8. Jerez* (withOUT the Martin Donnelly Chicane)
9. Algarve
10. Road America, Mid Ohio, or Laguna Seca* (more questionable with some of the hillsides pushed back)
11. Montreal, Mont Tremblant, or Mosport Park* (more questionable now with the paved run-offs)
12. Potrero de los Funes
13. Interlagos

Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen, and Sebring already have their own, established endurance events for Prototypes and GTs.

If there was a second tier, where I think it could happen, but it will be (somewhat) more difficult, those venues would probably be:
1. Eastern Creek or Surfers Paradise* (IndyCar full street circuit)
2. Sugo or Aida/Okayama
3. Sepang
4. Buriram (the simple, flowing layout and blind approach to the fearsomely fast Turn 4 make up for a lot)
5. Istanbul
6. Lausitzring* (GP Circuit with Oval Turn 1; something different, but still good)
7. Donington Park
8. Sears Point* (2.520-mile layout)
9. Buenos Aires* (has to use the long loop)
10. Sao Paulo* (IndyCar street circuit)
11. Kyalami

And obviously, I've left off 2017 Season venues for the purposes of these listings.

Last edited by Purist; 10 Sep 2017 at 22:28.
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Old 11 Sep 2017, 01:08 (Ref:3765951)   #491
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Given they said they wanted every WEC race to feel like an event, it's strange they're just dropping Silverstone and Mexico. Won't make anything popular by taking it away.
Tell that to the McRib.
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Old 11 Sep 2017, 14:43 (Ref:3766071)   #492
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At least optimism's not dead yet.

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Old 11 Sep 2017, 16:32 (Ref:3766097)   #493
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There's a fine line between optimism and delusion.
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Old 11 Sep 2017, 16:38 (Ref:3766103)   #494
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“I prefer to have seven very competitive cars with a long-term view of making a great show on the track than have 12 cars and have four or five of them in the back.”
That's silly logic. We'd rather have 7 cars than 12 cars where 4 or 5 are struggling, leaving 7 good ones anyway.

But either way, let's be realistic here - we aren't getting 12 cars. We should be VERY thankful if we have 5 cars on the grid. We'll probably get an SMP Dallara, we'll probably get a ByKolles, and we MIGHT get some Ginetta - maybe 2. We'll probably get some Toyotas, but that isn't confirmed either.
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Old 11 Sep 2017, 19:34 (Ref:3766143)   #495
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That's silly logic. We'd rather have 7 cars than 12 cars where 4 or 5 are struggling, leaving 7 good ones anyway.

But either way, let's be realistic here - we aren't getting 12 cars. We should be VERY thankful if we have 5 cars on the grid. We'll probably get an SMP Dallara, we'll probably get a ByKolles, and we MIGHT get some Ginetta - maybe 2. We'll probably get some Toyotas, but that isn't confirmed either.
Right, and nothing is confirmed yet. But the boss says he feels they'll be more on the grid next year than this year. Even if it's 5, that's more than the current 4.
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Old 11 Sep 2017, 19:36 (Ref:3766144)   #496
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It makes sense in WEC terms because 5 cars that are in with the LMP2s are legitimately detracting from the race in more ways than one.

If you're Nissan and still have any interest in Le Mans whatsoever it would be silly to not seriously pursue finding a car to put their LMP1 engine in now that they don't need a hybrid.
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Old 11 Sep 2017, 19:42 (Ref:3766145)   #497
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You mean, besides the StuckByTheSideOfTheCourseKolles?
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Old 11 Sep 2017, 19:45 (Ref:3766147)   #498
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Right, and nothing is confirmed yet. But the boss says he feels they'll be more on the grid next year than this year. Even if it's 5, that's more than the current 4.
There could be a big difference with what is on the full season entry list and what turns up for the various races (excluding guest entries). WEC has lots of previous experiences like that and I don't expect anything else this time around.
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Old 11 Sep 2017, 19:46 (Ref:3766148)   #499
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You mean, besides the StuckByTheSideOfTheCourseKolles?
Nissan could throw them a little bit of money and a driver and it'd go well. This year if it just survived and went without incident, it would have won Le Mans

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There could be a big difference with what is on the full season entry list and what turns up for the various races (excluding guest entries). WEC has lots of previous experiences like that and I don't expect anything else this time around.
Ok? I think he made it clear, "enter the whole wec, or no Le Mans".
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Old 11 Sep 2017, 20:41 (Ref:3766157)   #500
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Paying the full season entry fee and actually showing up for all the races is a big difference, I'm sure you are aware of that.

Nothing will stop entrants to sign on for the full season and then drop out after LM 2018 (or any later point). I'm sure it will be frowned upon by the ACO but as long as they're French (in case of a privateer) or a manufacturers (that bring in much more money than just the full season entry fee) they'll be invited back again in the future.
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