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Old 25 Nov 2009, 15:38 (Ref:2589089)   #16
Tom908V12
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Tom908V12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
By the way, Auto Hebdo gave the name of the mexican drivers if the deal Pescarolo/Fernandez/Peugeot was done: Diaz, Rojas and Duran
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Old 25 Nov 2009, 15:42 (Ref:2589092)   #17
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Originally Posted by The Badger View Post
I reckon Pescarolo would make a fine partner for any manufacturer .
Renault?
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Old 25 Nov 2009, 15:55 (Ref:2589099)   #18
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I think its a fine idea , but I cant see anything comin from Porsche in P1 for awhile . But old Henri has good links with Porsche from past years .

I reckon Pescarolo would make a fine partner for any manufacturer .
This is getting away from Henri's venture, but it really shouldn't take much for Porsche to update their Spyder to P1 specifications for 2011. Whether it is a factory backed entry, or simply updating and upgrading for customer cars, you would have to think the basic Spyder package would be one that could easily compete for overall wins in 2011.
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Old 25 Nov 2009, 16:48 (Ref:2589120)   #19
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
This is getting away from Henri's venture, but it really shouldn't take much for Porsche to update their Spyder to P1 specifications for 2011. Whether it is a factory backed entry, or simply updating and upgrading for customer cars, you would have to think the basic Spyder package would be one that could easily compete for overall wins in 2011.
The Spyder's formula car aero is exactly what the ACO said it wanted to change with the 2010 (now 11) rules. Flat nose and continuous bodywork.... They could start from the Spyder's tub and engine though.
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Old 25 Nov 2009, 17:17 (Ref:2589127)   #20
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Dario911 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
RS Spyder would be easily used as the base for the next Porsche P1. Hartmut Kristen told something about Porsche decision to back in P1. Porsche is experimenting a P1 in Leipzig, but that's not a new.
I hope they could help Pescarolo in his wonder adventure. It would be a dream.
Why don't we suggest to mr. Henri to ask for a joint venture with Porsche?
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Old 25 Nov 2009, 18:42 (Ref:2589179)   #21
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Originally Posted by Dario911 View Post
RS Spyder would be easily used as the base for the next Porsche P1. Hartmut Kristen told something about Porsche decision to back in P1. Porsche is experimenting a P1 in Leipzig, but that's not a new.
I hope they could help Pescarolo in his wonder adventure. It would be a dream.
Why don't we suggest to mr. Henri to ask for a joint venture with Porsche?
Why would Porsche choose Pescarolo? It isn't as if he is as accomplished as other options such as Joest or Penske.
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Old 25 Nov 2009, 20:04 (Ref:2589224)   #22
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Why?

1) Joest is with Audi
2) Pescarolo is more competitive and knows better than Penske Le Mans, P1 class, and european endurance races (LMS)
3) Porsche and Pescarolo have a long story together behind their shoulders...
4) Pescarolo has worked with P2 Porsche drivers, Collard and Dumas
5) Pescarolo has the better petrol P1 car, with a wonder chassis, capable to win against works Aston Martin, too
6) Huge advertising for both

I suggest is enough to cooperate with a good success in P1.
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Old 25 Nov 2009, 22:28 (Ref:2589294)   #23
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I'm hoping it's far too early to draw a line under Pescarolo prospects for 2010 and beyond, but there are probably a couple of areas where, historically, things could have gone better.

- Sponsor relations - l'affaire Bouchut by all accounts cost them Matmut support, and rapportage at the time indicated that this wasn't the only time sponsors hadn't been given the warm and fuzzy feeling they wanted
- No US thrust when customer cars became possible. As others have said, this is potentially the fastest private car out there, and Rollcentre's experience showed it could be highly competitive, but never having run in North America probably raised questions about the level of support available from the Technoparc, and limited the ability to build into a small customer programme which might have driven additional financial interest for Le Mans.
- Endless 'confrontation' with the ACO. Generally with a point, but ultimately it's got to have hacked them off and building a perception as "Mr Bad News" doesn't help sell Pescarolo as a commercial proposition to the sort of organisations that could pay his bills
- Relations with Peugeot. For all that I think Joest lost its soul after it became a works Porsche/Audi outfit, the burning of the bridges with Peugeot prior to the 908 era, and then unfortunate Treluyer/insurance incident probably didn't help.

Personally I hope the Del Bello rumours have more legs than the Mexican connection reported by Auto Hebdo - somehow Henri feels like he should do it in a quintessentially French way, rather than being a figure backing an effort with a very different identity. Put a different way, we all remember Henri as a driver with Matra, to a lesser extent with Porsche or Sauber Mercedes, but as a Lancia works driver? Not really.
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Old 26 Nov 2009, 02:17 (Ref:2589364)   #24
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Originally Posted by Dario911 View Post
Why?

1) Joest is with Audi
2) Pescarolo is more competitive and knows better than Penske Le Mans, P1 class, and european endurance races (LMS)
3) Porsche and Pescarolo have a long story together behind their shoulders...
4) Pescarolo has worked with P2 Porsche drivers, Collard and Dumas
5) Pescarolo has the better petrol P1 car, with a wonder chassis, capable to win against works Aston Martin, too
6) Huge advertising for both

I suggest is enough to cooperate with a good success in P1.
1. If Porsche was in P1, Audi would not be, rumoured to join McLaren in F1.
2. Pescarolo is more competitive? I'm not sure what that means, but you can't possibly be suggesting that Pescarolo is a better team. You surely underestimate Penske, if you think they wouldn't demolish Pescarolo in the same car, in any track or event anywhere.
3. As do Porsche and Penske
4. As has Penske
5. Old rules cars experience is irrelevant. How many times has Pescarolo beaten Audi? He couldn't even when they had a better car. But Penske managed to do it with a P2 car. 2011 will basically be P2 cars, how much experience does Pescarolo have running those vs. Penske? How much recent experience has Pescarolo running a Porsche with the 3.4V8?
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Old 26 Nov 2009, 07:18 (Ref:2589446)   #25
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Don't dream too much guys !!! IF Porsche comes back to Le Mans in P1 it should be instead of AUDI and with the ex-Audi team, not a private one
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Old 26 Nov 2009, 07:30 (Ref:2589456)   #26
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
1. If Porsche was in P1, Audi would not be, rumoured to join McLaren in F1.
2. Pescarolo is more competitive? I'm not sure what that means, but you can't possibly be suggesting that Pescarolo is a better team. You surely underestimate Penske, if you think they wouldn't demolish Pescarolo in the same car, in any track or event anywhere.
3. As do Porsche and Penske
4. As has Penske
5. Old rules cars experience is irrelevant. How many times has Pescarolo beaten Audi? He couldn't even when they had a better car. But Penske managed to do it with a P2 car. 2011 will basically be P2 cars, how much experience does Pescarolo have running those vs. Penske? How much recent experience has Pescarolo running a Porsche with the 3.4V8?
In european races, Pescarolo is more competitive than Penske Racing. Henri's team knows very well opponents, tracks and needed strategies... A big point for Henri.
Pescarolo is the only team capable to compete against Audi and Peugeot. His budget is 1/10 if compared to Audi and Peugeot ones, but Pescarolo Sport is a very competitive and professional team, capable to build a very good car. They've matched works Aston Martin with an old and not full developed V10 Judd engine.
Treluyer has driven both Pescarolo 01 and Peugeot 908 HDI. He's said Pescarolo's chassis is more sporting than Peugeot 908 one, and the only difference is the engine. Benoit suggested Pescarolo, with a really competitive engine, might be at the same level of Audi and Peugeot.
That's not my opinion...
Audi is not interested to Formula 1, because their technical interest for this cathegory is very low. They are interested to race in P1 or, if they would be forced to leave this cathegory, join to GT class, with their new R8 GT3. World title is an interesting prospective for Audi, to support their GT manufacturer image.
Penske was rumored to be interested to join with Audi in ALMS, in P1 class.
But nothing about this has never been declared officially. Anyway, Penske is focusing its interest in other cathegories, such as Indy.
Porsche may choose Pescarolo as its parnter in a P1 program because of his habit to face against great opponents, such as Audi, Peugeot, Aston Martin...
Pescarolo is very well introduced in this contest, so he could understand how to manage as better as possible a competitive team.
Pescarolo 01 is a formidable car, as fast as works Aston Martin (if not faster, I would say...).
RS Spyder has beaten Audi R10, in ALMS, but it has been helped by different rules and tracks nature. Don't forget this.
Pescarolo is in P1 class since long time, so if you have to launch a new P1 car, you have to submit the car to a well experienced and able manager.
The same Audi has done with Joest.
So, Pescarolo may be the right choice for Porsche.
Penske is far from Europe since long, long time. This may be a real trouble for them in LMS and Le Mans.
Few people know Le Mans as well as mr. Henri.

Last edited by Dario911; 26 Nov 2009 at 07:37.
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Old 26 Nov 2009, 07:49 (Ref:2589473)   #27
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Its a silly argument.

Pescarolo clearly is an extremely competant and enthusiastic operator who has managed to bat above his station for for years and has taken on the big guns with some success. He clearly would be an asset to any manufacturer looking to do Le Mans and with the right budget he is probably capable of running a team (especially at Le Mans) as effective as anyone including Penske

Penske is a team owner who generally does things for money - ie he would not do it without big backing from a manufacturer or big money sponsor - however as an operator of a race team he his right up with Joest in his effectiveness and if someone was to back him to go to Le Mans or Europe you would expect that quality to shine through.

Who does the better job would really depend on so many factors and could vary from event to event
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Old 26 Nov 2009, 07:50 (Ref:2589475)   #28
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According to http://www.italiaracing.net/ Sébastien Loeb could run Le Mans race instead of a mexican driver who would run the LMS(Europe)in the 4th 908(of team boss Pescarolo of course)
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Old 26 Nov 2009, 07:55 (Ref:2589480)   #29
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Originally Posted by Dario911 View Post
In european races, Pescarolo is more competitive than Penske Racing. Henri's team knows very well opponents, tracks and needed strategies... A big point for Henri.
Pescarolo is the only team capable to compete against Audi and Peugeot. His budget is 1/10 if compared to Audi and Peugeot ones, but Pescarolo Sport is a very competitive and professional team, capable to build a very good car. They've matched works Aston Martin with an old and not full developed V10 Judd engine.
Treluyer has driven both Pescarolo 01 and Peugeot 908 HDI. He's said Pescarolo's chassis is more sporting than Peugeot 908 one, and the only difference is the engine. Benoit suggested Pescarolo, with a really competitive engine, might be at the same level of Audi and Peugeot.
That's not my opinion...
Audi is not interested to Formula 1, because their technical interest for this cathegory is very low. They are interested to race in P1 or, if they would be forced to leave this cathegory, join to GT class, with their new R8 GT3. World title is an interesting prospective for Audi, to support their GT manufacturer image.
Penske was rumored to be interested to join with Audi in ALMS, in P1 class.
But nothing about this has never been declared officially. Anyway, Penske is focusing its interest in other cathegories, such as Indy.
Porsche may choose Pescarolo as its parnter in a P1 program because of his habit to face against great opponents, such as Audi, Peugeot, Aston Martin...
Pescarolo is very well introduced in this contest, so he could understand how to manage as better as possible a competitive team.
Pescarolo 01 is a formidable car, as fast as works Aston Martin (if not faster, I would say...).
RS Spyder has beaten Audi R10, in ALMS, but it has been helped by different rules and tracks nature. Don't forget this.
Pescarolo is in P1 class since long time, so if you have to launch a new P1 car, you have to submit the car to a well experienced and able manager.
The same Audi has done with Joest.
So, Pescarolo may be the right choice for Porsche.
Penske is far from Europe since long, long time. This may be a real trouble for them in LMS and Le Mans.
Few people know Le Mans as well as mr. Henri.
You are right in many of your points. But you must remember that the 2011 cars wont be LMP1's like today, but more like the LMP2's of today (ei. Porsche Spyder, Acura ARX-01b). The Pescarolo 01, has been made into a LMP2, but isn't really fast enough.
But i think we are forgetting a point in this discussion.
Penske has yet to build a LMP chassis, which Pescarolo has.
If Porsche are choosing to work together with a privateer to manufacture a car, then no doubt that it will be Pescarolo, who builds the Chassis. But if Porsche choose to manufacture the hole car them self (as some manufactures often choose) then i see Penske as the more likely choice for running ALMS and Le Mans, as they have the most recent experience with Porsche LMP's. But Pescarolo could very well be offered the car for LMS.
But all in all. The Porsche LMP1 rumor is something that has existed since they made the had the LMP projekt back in 99-00
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/porschelmp1.html
So i don't think well see Porsche back for some time.. Besides, the most recent rumors i heard from the VW group/Porsche front is that Audi is scrapping the R15 after 2010, and developing a new 2011 racer, to fight against the new Peugeot and AMR.
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Old 26 Nov 2009, 07:58 (Ref:2589486)   #30
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Besides, the most recent rumors i heard from the VW group/Porsche front is that Audi is scrapping the R15 after 2010, and developing a new 2011 racer, to fight against the new Peugeot and AMR.
VAG could of course choose either or both brands to run the new car - maybe with different fuels
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