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Old 13 Oct 2017, 18:07 (Ref:3774056)   #31
bella
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Originally Posted by Number4 View Post
It was definitely not a 3.5 tonne van, but a lorry from Circuit 2 Circuit.
It wasn't parked in a crazy place, there was a marquee next to it.
Rule 1 of a tail lift is to never leave them half way up, usually it is just your shins that get wrecked.
sorry, my mistake, looked like a standard tail lift rather than a race car sized one from the odd photo that emerged at the time. leaving it at half mast was careless though, i agree about that.
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Old 14 Oct 2017, 10:20 (Ref:3774160)   #32
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Moneyseeker View Post
Only a minor point, but I believe it was a transport company truck, not a Manor F1 transporter. In any event it was a tragic accident and waste. A certain cruel irony to me was that Maria's father shared a car with Guy Edwards at Le Mans and both of them went on to lose their racing children in freak accidents in a racing car, when neither of them were actually racing.

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And they actually died a few days apart of each other
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Old 14 Oct 2017, 13:40 (Ref:3774183)   #33
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mark_l should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmark_l should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/releases/f...de-villota.pdf
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Old 14 Oct 2017, 14:17 (Ref:3774184)   #34
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Originally Posted by mark_l View Post
Summary:
  • First run in the car, but was given simulator time before hand by McLaren
  • No briefing on how to stop the car
  • She was physically unable to operate the clutch on full lock and was told this was not a problem as she would never be at full lock
  • Risk Assessment was done by Manor, no problem spotted with the tail lift position
  • During slowing down, she was in gear and the anti-stall system was forcing the car forward
  • She claims she attempted the clutch before the collision but it did not work
  • Telemetry showed she was at full lock at impact, so could not operate the clutch as she warned before.
  • She was attempting to go around the truck, and miss the rear

The only skeptical thing I see is the claim a button did not work. I find the HSE report a little unclear as to what button they mean. They refer to the clutch as paddles (which is accurate), and then say "pressed this button before collision" - which button? Because directly below that it says there is a neutral button. So does the report actually refer to the neutral button failing?Not sure, but it doesn't paint Marussia in a particularly good light. I suppose you could argue that if you're given a test in an F1 car, you should be at the level of knowing how to stop the car. But then again, the tail lift should not have been in that position. So even if you try and twist it to blame it on the driver, Marussia still looks bad.

What the report doesn't mention is if the car would have collided with the truck otherwise. It says that Maria thought should would miss it, but there's nothing else to back that up. If she'd have hit the rear of the truck it may have been better, or worse. And if she missed the truck, she'd be rounding a blind corner in a paddock area, at a decent speed and unable to slow down - so what was round the corner?
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Old 14 Oct 2017, 14:23 (Ref:3774185)   #35
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The most important parts of the report, Parts C & D, are not included.
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Old 15 Oct 2017, 01:40 (Ref:3774240)   #36
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
The most important parts of the report, Parts C & D, are not included.
Exactly, what possible reason could they have for not releasing these?

Plus:

"51. The DP said she thought she would miss the lorry. However, the tail-lift had been left in a position which not only created the risk of injury, but was also protruding outwards at the level of the DPs eye (hence the injury), the DP did not see the tail-lift and thought she would miss the lorry completely. " [http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/releases/f...de-villota.pdf]

Says it all really.
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Old 15 Oct 2017, 03:02 (Ref:3774253)   #37
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
  • During slowing down, she was in gear and the anti-stall system was forcing the car forward
You can hear that exact situation HERE. WARNING: This is actual audio from the crash.

No attempt to disengage the clutch from that audio.
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Old 15 Oct 2017, 03:36 (Ref:3774258)   #38
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Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
You can hear that exact situation HERE. WARNING: This is actual audio from the crash.

No attempt to disengage the clutch from that audio.
According to the report, the clutch could not be disengaged on full lock, and the anti-stall would seem to have been driving the car forward.
In truth Akroprovic has summed up the rest.
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Old 15 Oct 2017, 04:44 (Ref:3774275)   #39
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
The only skeptical thing I see is the claim a button did not work. I find the HSE report a little unclear as to what button they mean.
My assumption is the "button" is the clutch paddle. Car telemetry is listed as evidence and is likely the source for the timeline data.

A few personal observations...

* The report spans about seven seconds of time. Which is a relatively short period.
* While it notes he issue with inability to operate the hand clutch at full lock, while at the end she was in full lock, I assume at the start of the quoted time period she was not. But the report does not say.
* The car was apparently in second gear and the report says she tried to downshift into first, but internal protections prevented this due to torque load. Might she have tried to pull the clutch paddle and got the downshift paddle instead?
* She hit the accelerator at one point. Might she have thought she had a stuck throttle and this might free it up?

I don't know what these documents typically look like, but from reading this one, it comes across as inadequate, thin on details and poorly written. Plus with the quantity of telemetry they had, they list very little in the report and omit quite a bit of what I might think would be quite pertinent. Again, not sure if that is typical or not.

Overall, I think the team played it fast and loose with preparation, plus she was unprepared with respect to knowing how to stop the car. You would like to think the team would have done a better job in their duties (Site safety, proper briefing for a novice to F1 driver, etc.) and you would like to think she wouldn't step in the car if she didn't feel personally prepared (report list very little in the way of preparation by her, lack of information from the team on how the controls worked, and I have to wonder about the simulator work... was the McLaren simulator it configured to act like a Marrusia? Such as the wheel controls, anti stall behavior, stopping procedure, etc. The report should mention that, but doesn't)

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Old 15 Oct 2017, 08:11 (Ref:3774296)   #40
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Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
No attempt to disengage the clutch from that audio.
You don't know if there was no attempt, only that it did not happen, which we know from the HSE report anyway.

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Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
I don't know what these documents typically look like, but from reading this one, it comes across as inadequate, thin on details and poorly written. Plus with the quantity of telemetry they had, they list very little in the report and omit quite a bit of what I might think would be quite pertinent. Again, not sure if that is typical or not.
Richard
This is pretty standard for the document, but it is missing 2 parts as those are listed as classified. But agreed, in places there's a bit of lack of information.
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