Indycar News & Rumors.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

You are ranting on and have no idea what you are talking about, neither the original conversation we had on here nor Kirby's article.

I read Kirby's article and it's the same old thing told all over again. That's hardly "news" to me.

The thing is that the powers that be should take a clear at what they have right now. Then they should decide if that's what they have is allright. If it's not, then they should come up with ways to fix it. But it's no use to shed tears about the past, or history will indeed repeat itself.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by DS"

I read Kirby's article and it's the same old thing told all over again. That's hardly "news" to me.

The thing is that the powers that be should take a clear at what they have right now. Then they should decide if that's what they have is allright. If it's not, then they should come up with ways to fix it. But it's no use to shed tears about the past, or history will indeed repeat itself.

What's at the crux of the Kirby article is no one listens; they didn't listen in the '70s and they aren't listening now and the result is a series that's spiraling into extinction.

[Paradise City]

I think what's unusual about the current era is that Tony George is insane.

The others were old, set in their ways, maybe angry fellows.etc.

But George is the first Indycar bod who is insane and unfortunately is still influential.

[JohnSSC]

Paradise city: So you've met TG, made a clinical assessment and found him to be insane?

There are a lot of people out there who are perfectly sane and who, when presented with the same facts as any other person will make completely different decisions. This does not make them insane. This is also what makes having any kind of rational discussion about this difficult. The name-calling begins and down the slippery slope we go.

With or without TG's influence, the Hulman family has made some decisions since Tony Hulman passed that just have not been good. I think this supports MS's point that the people who own IMS also own the series and that this is not a good thing. To make somewhat of an analogy, it would be as if the people who owned Spa owned F1. You can't make "good" decisions for IMS at the same time as making "good" decisions for the series because at times good for one can be bad for the other.

This is why I asked the question I did upstream. It seems to me that IMS and some of their bigger stakeholders are doing things that benefit them without actually asking the question "Who besides us are interested in this racing series?"

These folks are trying to perpetuate a series guaranteeing profits to themselves without actually attempting to ascertain whether anyone is interested in the product.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Paradise city: So you've met TG, made a clinical assessment and found him to be insane?

There are a lot of people out there who are perfectly sane and who, when presented with the same facts as any other person will make completely different decisions. This does not make them insane. This is also what makes having any kind of rational discussion about this difficult. The name-calling begins and down the slippery slope we go.

With or without TG's influence, the Hulman family has made some decisions since Tony Hulman passed that just have not been good. I think this supports MS's point that the people who own IMS also own the series and that this is not a good thing. To make somewhat of an analogy, it would be as if the people who owned Spa owned F1. You can't make "good" decisions for IMS at the same time as making "good" decisions for the series because at times good for one can be bad for the other.

This is why I asked the question I did upstream. It seems to me that IMS and some of their bigger stakeholders are doing things that benefit them without actually asking the question "Who besides us are interested in this racing series?"

These folks are trying to perpetuate a series guaranteeing profits to themselves without actually attempting to ascertain whether anyone is interested in the product.

I make stinging and categorical criticisms of the George regime in order to concentrate minds. If that's enough to throw people into bias, they to work on their own temperament. I don't demand that my views are made mandatory. I think the George influence is malign in a very peculiar and unprecedented way in terms of the sport. I've watched George's management career on and off since the early nineties and have witnessed a mighty sport being humbled in a very slow, agonising process of destruction, destruction and destruction. Your excuses have certain salience but are insufficient. The family wealth has been hammered n the service of egos. To me he comes across as a hybrid of the Emperor Nero and a more extroverted Howard Hughes and he's still infuential. I don't want to make these criticisms, I much prefer to praise but one feels one has a duty to the truth and I agree with ms, to the extent that the sport needs to be liberated from the Georges and that multisupplier business needs to flow throughout this sport again. The sport as a North Korea on four wheels is slowly racing itself into the ground.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I make stinging and categorical criticisms of the George regime in order to concentrate minds. If that's enough to throw people into bias, they to work on their own temperament. I don't demand that my views are made mandatory. I think the George influence is malign in a very peculiar and unprecedented way in terms of the sport. I've watched George's management career on and off since the early nineties and have witnessed a mighty sport being humbled in a very slow, agonising process of destruction, destruction and destruction. Your excuses have certain salience but are insufficient. The family wealth has been hammered n the service of egos. To me he comes across as a hybrid of the Emperor Nero and a more extroverted Howard Hughes and he's still infuential. I don't want to make these criticisms, I much prefer to praise but one feels one has a duty to the truth and I agree with ms, to the extent that the sport needs to be liberated from the Georges and that multisupplier business needs to flow throughout this sport again. The sport as a North Korea on four wheels is slowly racing itself into the ground.

With the news/rumors that Nascar is going to absorb the ALMS, once done, Nascar will essentially own professional motorsports in the USA. Indy will be a tiny fort on the prairie surrounded on all sides. They don't have much time to save themselves.

tony george's mental health ultimately doesn't matter, it's the results that matter and the reality is we sit here 20 years later with the sport for all intents and purposes non existent in the eyes of the public. I have known people that know him and everyone says he is a nice, likable guy, but is not the sharpest knife in the drawer and certainly not equipped to run a multi million dollar business. Just because you inherit tangible assets doesn't mean you inherited the brain capable of handling those assets.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

With the news/rumors that Nascar is going to absorb the ALMS, once done, Nascar will essentially own professional motorsports in the USA. Indy will be a tiny fort on the prairie surrounded on all sides. They don't have much time to save themselves.

tony george's mental health ultimately doesn't matter, it's the results that matter and the reality is we sit here 20 years later with the sport for all intents and purposes non existent in the eyes of the public. I have known people that know him and everyone says he is a nice, likable guy, but is not the sharpest knife in the drawer and certainly not equipped to run a multi million dollar business. Just because you inherit tangible assets doesn't mean you inherited the brain capable of handling those assets.

How are NASCAR going to absorb ALMS?

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

How are NASCAR going to absorb ALMS?

Curious about this too, as ALMS seems to be a competitor of Grand Am...which the France family owns.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I make stinging and categorical criticisms of the George regime in order to concentrate minds. If that's enough to throw people into bias, they to work on their own temperament. I don't demand that my views are made mandatory. I think the George influence is malign in a very peculiar and unprecedented way in terms of the sport. I've watched George's management career on and off since the early nineties and have witnessed a mighty sport being humbled in a very slow, agonising process of destruction, destruction and destruction. Your excuses have certain salience but are insufficient. The family wealth has been hammered n the service of egos. To me he comes across as a hybrid of the Emperor Nero and a more extroverted Howard Hughes and he's still infuential. I don't want to make these criticisms, I much prefer to praise but one feels one has a duty to the truth and I agree with ms, to the extent that the sport needs to be liberated from the Georges and that multisupplier business needs to flow throughout this sport again. The sport as a North Korea on four wheels is slowly racing itself into the ground.

Oh, well, geez! I am SO sorry that I had the temerity to question your rhetorical claims of insanity on TG's part. I had not realized that you were simply preparing my mind for the appropriate amount of focus which would allow me (with your permission of course) to discuss this and even present my own inferior opinions and rationales.

If only Plato, Socrates and Aristotle had realized the value of this technique long ago, what a massive improvement would have been made in forwarding the development of philosophy and rational thought. Plato's "Theaetetus" would have had so much more impact if only Socrates had accused Theaetetus of being insane...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

If only Plato, Socrates and Aristotle had realized the value of this technique long ago, what a massive improvement would have been made in forwarding the development of philosophy and rational thought. Plato's "Theaetetus" would have had so much more impact if only Socrates had accused Theaetetus of being insane...

That's brilliant.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

How are NASCAR going to absorb ALMS?

You didn't hear the news:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120901/ALMS/120909996

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

You didn't hear the news:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120901/ALMS/120909996

Wow. Just wow.

Not surprised though. Every year Atherton would blather on about the financial strength of the series and I think that the only person who really believed it was him...

It will be VERY interesting to see what the "merged" series looks like.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

That's brilliant.

Thank you sir!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

You didn't hear the news:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120901/ALMS/120909996

I didn't see anything in Autosport about it but thanks for the link.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Oh, well, geez! I am SO sorry that I had the temerity to question your rhetorical claims of insanity on TG's part. I had not realized that you were simply preparing my mind for the appropriate amount of focus which would allow me (with your permission of course) to discuss this and even present my own inferior opinions and rationales.

If only Plato, Socrates and Aristotle had realized the value of this technique long ago, what a massive improvement would have been made in forwarding the development of philosophy and rational thought. Plato's "Theaetetus" would have had so much more impact if only Socrates had accused Theaetetus of being insane...

He destroyed the sport and inflicted grievous damage upon his own interests and fortunes. It ain't that complicated. Oh and apologies, accepted.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I didn't see anything in Autosport about it but thanks for the link.

Speed TV first ran with it.

I think everyone's aware that Panoz has been shopping around for a buyer for some time, so no surprise.

My concern is Nascar's 30 year ambitions are nearly complete and they will now dominate all "pro" motorsports in the USA. If they can start an American DTM and have decent sportscar rules maybe it will be fine. A strong indycar could have offset that, but they have no chance now.

[kurski]

SPEED.com has learned that Team Penske approached Hunter-Reay about filling Ryan Briscoe's seat for the 2013 season, but only after Simon Pagenaud had to turn it down because of his iron-clad contract he has with Sam Schmidt’s Honda-powered team.

[NaBUru38]

Please, if anyone finds the Izod Girl, please contact IndyCar. Thank you.

[Peat]

To be shortly followed by 'MISSING: TITLE SPONSOR'

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Please, if anyone finds the Izod Girl, please contact IndyCar. Thank you.

Has she left the series?

[NaBUru38]

Did you see her in Victory Lane?

[Mystery]

So then people if NASCAR = Pro motor sports in the USA in future....

1. What rules will the Indy 500 run to?
2. Does the USA accept it will never ever have another home grown world champion driver?

Turn your back on open wheel racing and then you've got NASCAR (hey why not call it the world series of oval racing) and whatever sports car series is left behind. The next US F1 world champ ain't coming from either of them.

[HJJ]

Me thinks the interns are messin' around!

http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway...lts/?year=2012

[Down F0rce]

RHR to Penske?

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...t-baltimore/P2

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by HJJ

Me thinks the interns are messin' around!

http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway...lts/?year=2012

WTF!!!