[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[TRuss]

I'm not sure they will stop at DPi influenced. While DPis do in some cases have styling cues of the manufacturers' road cars, it's not terribly obvious and you certainly couldn't refer to them as GT influenced or GT anything for that matter. I only mention that because "GT" has been mentioned so much recently. We'll have a better idea of their thoughts pretty soon, it sounds like.

[helgi]

The History doesn't teach someone.
http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/ver...mp1f1-en-2021/

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by helgi

The History doesn't teach someone.
http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/ver...mp1f1-en-2021/

The regulations would change from a free design for engines to a V6 turbo for everyone ? No !

[Deleted]

Why do these idiots always want to create some kind of alignment with F1. THEY DO NOT BELONG TOGETHER

Also I fear McLaren is one of the parties demanding this dumping down, we already pretty much know that the lobby request for "prototypes that look like road cars" is almost 100% originating from their end based on what they've been touting for ages now

[helgi]

I still can not understand, if F1 engines are so good and LMP1 engine regulations are wide open, why on Earth it is impossible for F1 suppliers just to enter LMP1 without any limitations for the latter?
Well, if they really decide to destroy LMP1 and the whole autosport with standardisation then some fans will have more spare time out of racing weekends to spend it on friends and families, other hobbies and outdoor activities. Maybe it's not a bad idea from FIA? (almost a joke)

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Why do these idiots always want to create some kind of alignment with F1. THEY DO NOT BELONG TOGETHER

Also I fear McLaren is one of the parties demanding this dumping down, we already pretty much know that the lobby request for "prototypes that look like road cars" is almost 100% originating from their end based on what they've been touting for ages now

it's really "prototypes that look like Hyper cars, not road cars"
The Hyper cars are the dreams of most mortals and the current LMP1 are very ugly, I do not know why there's so much trouble with that.
The Porsche 911 GT1 1998 is one of the most beautiful Le Mans winners in the history.

About the engines, The current F1 engines are admitted now in the regulation only that nobody uses them because their cost is very high.
If the cost of the engine goes down in 2021 as it has been talked about surely will have its place in GTproto, But I do not agree to ban other types of engines. I still dream of a V12 winning Le Mans again as in 1999 the last victory.

[Akrapovic]

I am skeptical on the idea of moving back to the big GT1 cars. I think we're forgetting how quickly that all fell apart and we were left with nothing.

If we consider the LMP1-H fall from great heights fast, it was nothing compared to GT1. We went from everything in 98/99, to nothing in 00. They literally all disappeared. And these cars are basically prototypes in drag, so the chances of them being sold (especially now days) are very low, so you'd be back in a situation of bending over for manufacturers and relying on them to stick around. That doesn't tend to work for well.

The only way of getting a sustainable top class is involving manufacturers and privateer entries. IMSA is doing that right now, and we had that until the hybrid introduction (and collapse). We're finally getting privateer entries back, and we're talking about a rule set that looks like we'll be moving away from? Not sure that's smart.

Also, F1 engines in F1. Fine, if someone wants to modify an F1 engine to run in WEC then go for it. But the WEC should rules should be in no way changed to mandate the F1 layout.

[jee]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I still dream of a V12 winning Le Mans again as in 1999 the last victory.

2006 - 2009 winners had V12 engines

[TRuss]

I honestly don't care anymore. I've been closely following motorsports since I was 15-16 years old (1994 I think) and I have been less than enthused about any and all technical regulations ever since then. I'm used to it. Why should the 2020s be any different? Maybe the 2030s will be my decade. I assume it's just speculation at the moment anyway. Hopefully it all turns out favorably, spec engines or not. I'd definitely prefer "or not" though.

[TF110]

I don't think Todt was saying F1 engines should be mandatory for lmp1. I think he was saying that they should be used in another category such as lmp1 and that way manufacturers can use the same engine in both series. F1 is going to be F1. But with lmp1 moving towards the hypercar look, it's more relevant to the street. I think it'll be more popular if you have McLaren and others join with something that looks like their upcoming P15 or BP23 (3 seater). Or Aston Martin's Valkyrie etc.

I really hope the engine comment is a suggestion to f1-engine manufacturers to get more out of the f1-engine investment and not something where it's a common engine for both series. But reading it on other sites in english, it sounds more like the former.

[TRuss]

Why are the English and French EI sites completely different?

I finally got the article translated and at no point did it sound like anything more than Todt's ramblings, and at no point in his ramblings did he even mention mandatory, or spec or they will have to use F1 engines. It's basically just a repeat of what was said prior to 2014. That the current F1 engines should be capable of a 24 hour race distance and there for a potential power source, should somebody decide to do that. It definitely flies in the face of what he later said about LMP-1 being too expensive and costs needing to be kept in check. I know that the oh so popular F1 V6s are supposed to cheaper from 2021, but I still don't see them as cost effective for anyone other than an F1 team wanting to take a stab at LeMans. More than anything, you guys need to chill out. There's nothing here to hysterical over.

[TF110]

Key thing in the new f1 engines is they lose the super complicated ers-h but keep the kers hybrid.

[TRuss]

I was referring to the removal of the mgu-h and other changes when I said that they would be cheaper from 2021. They will be clean sheet designs though, so that sounds cheap.

[Mal]

F1 hybrid engines could be an option for LMP1 privateers whilst manufacturers still go there own route?

[TRuss]

I think Todt's thinking is just the opposite. If say Mclaren or Ferrari wanted to go LMP1 racing they could just toss in an F1 engine and there is one less very expensive thing to develop, making such a possibility a little more feasible. I'd guess much more so for McLaren than for Ferrari. I can't imagine even the revised "cheaper" 2021 F1 engines being anything more than a fantasy for privateer LMP1 teams.

[chernaudi]

Personally, at least for privateers, I'd like to see them revert to larger, lower revving engines that use torque to get better fuel mileage and durability.

[roderick]

There is no way of proving this but NON of F1 engine will survive 24hr le mans. The Jet Ignition system they use is only good for 2k~4k at most.
manufacture can always develop F1 engine based engine for WEC but they wont make it for privateer to use... and it will never be cheap

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by roderick

There is no way of proving this but NON of F1 engine will survive 24hr le mans. The Jet Ignition system they use is only good for 2k~4k at most.
manufacture can always develop F1 engine based engine for WEC but they wont make it for privateer to use... and it will never be cheap

Let's focus on actual v6 f1 engines; next season each engine will have to endure 7 GP that basically means a lifespan of about 500km per gp = about 3500km. Now let's consider that drivers make usually rev the engine up to 12000rpm with a fuel flow rate of 100kg/h, it's quite cheering that this kind of engine could last 6000km (basically le mans fp/q/race) with a about 75 kg/h fuel flow rate and a much lower revlimit (about 8500-9000rpm).

If 100kg/h push >800hp from ICE, about 75kg/h should push no less than 600hp, that basically should be the same power output developed during theese seasons by toyota and porsche ICE.
Everything fine so far.... ops, a little problem.... each f1 ICE costs not less than 5 milions of € so forget about everything I wrote so far

[GasperG]

Under current regulations privateers are able to use 100 kg/h and 8MJ hybrid class can use 80 kg/h, I don't know from where you got 75 kg/h?

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by roderick

There is no way of proving this but NON of F1 engine will survive 24hr le mans. The Jet Ignition system they use is only good for 2k~4k at most.
manufacture can always develop F1 engine based engine for WEC but they wont make it for privateer to use... and it will never be cheap

Wasn't there talk that Toyota had a version of the turbulent jet ignition in the TS050 this year?

[roderick]

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

Wasn't there talk that Toyota had a version of the turbulent jet ignition in the TS050 this year?

Yes, that's correct. And both 919 and TS050 has already developed similar Jet Ignition system for WEC. However, they work in the same principle but designed to last for endurance rather than short sprint(F1)
The main difference between WEC system and F1 is that, In F1 you can overhaul the Engine after the race (clean the sub-chamber) VS WEC everything needs to last >24hr thus you can not clean the sub-camber.

There are more to it but that's the idea

[hondafan37]

ASTON MARTIN THINKS HYPERCARS COULD SAVE LE MANS RACING

http://www.motortrend.com/news/aston...ium&utm_source

[Deleted]

Lol yeah right. Aston Martin, the kings of running with shoestring no-budget and entirely relying on balance of performance lottery tickets instead of own development.

Also the bit about "Aston Martin will never compete in a prototype category because it has no relevance to us"" - made me laugh so much. THEY WERE STILL IN LMP1 JUST SIX YEARS AGO. But I guess they didn't care about relevancy back then until one day realized it, that must've been the reason why they went away

Of course they want to compete in the top category if they get it EASY. Their forever motto...

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Lol yeah right. Aston Martin, the kings of running with shoestring no-budget and entirely relying on balance of performance lottery tickets instead of own development.

Also the bit about "Aston Martin will never compete in a prototype category because it has no relevance to us"" - made me laugh so much. THEY WERE STILL IN LMP1 JUST SIX YEARS AGO. But I guess they didn't care about relevancy back then until one day realized it, that must've been the reason why they went away

Of course they want to compete in the top category if they get it EASY. Their forever motto...

I don't think they speak the truth entirely, but they are making a profit now. Maybe their mother company is freeing up a little bit more cash now. There's a brand new Vantage for next year, you know. And the Valkyrie could be such a car that they have that might be good for the type of GTP rules.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

I don't think they speak the truth entirely, but they are making a profit now. Maybe their mother company is freeing up a little bit more cash now. There's a brand new Vantage for next year, you know. And the Valkyrie could be such a car that they have that might be good for the type of GTP rules.

Unless the new LMP1/GTP rules are centered around constant performance balancing (which would be absolutely horrendous), I cannot see Aston Martin doing any good in top category even if they managed to get moderately bigger budget. Because they would need astronomically more funds than even for their Lola-borrowed campaigns. Will they free up that much money for Prodrive even with increased sales?

This is the company I have the least faith in when it comes to possibly lobbying new prototype rules. Even McLaren demanding road car styles, or Peugeot wanting economy cost caps is less worrying because at least they'd probably want to have more engineering in it, not just BoP mixed in with cheapness