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Old 8 Nov 2017, 05:28 (Ref:3779392)   #2401
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dsg should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddsg should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddsg should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddsg should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Armco Bender View Post
Here's an idea from left field....what about slick tyres,a DFV engine and a wing on the front and the back?...
600hp formula fords with fat tyres. They can even add a halo.
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Old 8 Nov 2017, 07:11 (Ref:3779401)   #2402
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Oldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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600hp formula fords with fat tyres. They can even add a halo.
How about two horses, reins a single pole with sabres sticking out of the two wheels.
Think of the cost savings getting rid of all that science and technology
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Old 8 Nov 2017, 07:27 (Ref:3779403)   #2403
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How about two horses, reins a single pole with sabres sticking out of the two wheels.
Think of the cost savings getting rid of all that science and technology
F1 would find a way to screw it up. I've read that a TDF bike can cost upwards of 25k, F1 teams would add on a couple of noughts.

The problem with the sabres on wheels option is that we would be back to a procession. Nobody except Max would risk overtaking for fear of damage and the result would be decided on the Saturday when Mercedes' horses were given a boost!
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Old 8 Nov 2017, 08:43 (Ref:3779413)   #2404
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600hp formula fords with fat tyres. They can even add a halo.

Brilliant a real racing series!


The smoke and mirrors brigade would be seriously offended though.
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Old 9 Nov 2017, 21:22 (Ref:3779684)   #2405
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My thoughts on likely engine regs, no one will be happy, but no one ****ed off enough to leave:

1. Fuel Flow curve:
Change fuel flow to increase proportional to engine speed, so 100kg/hr @ 10500rpm (same as now) then for every extra 1000rpm you increase speed the fuel limit increases by 5kg/hr (for sake of argument), so 105kg/hr @ 11500rpm, 110kg/hr @ 12500 rpm... etc. to 125kg/hr @ 15500rpm. So performance is still kept in check by fuel flow, efficiency is encouraged, but the engine is allowed to rev more naturally & hence a bit more noise.

2. MGU-H:
Currently the MGU-H power is unlimited, so they push this system to the max, so much they they hardly ever need to use the wastegate (so less noise). Seeing as the manufacturers want to keep their MGU-K then why not limit its power, I suggest that the total energy per lap from MGU-K plus MGU-H should be 2MJ (currently MGU-K alone is 2MJ) so the MGU-H will not be able to charge the battery all the time & they'll have to use the wastegate..... so more noise!

3. MGU-K:
Remove the deployment power limit (currently 120kW) but keep the battery size the same (4MJ per lap) to stop it getting any heavier. limit the power that the system can deploy itself to 60kW, but then let the driver control the rest with the push to pass button.... as I said no max power limit to this but it all has to come from the 4MJ so if your motor can do 400kW that's fine but you can only have it for a few seconds, could be fun!

Maybe they could mandate that each manufacture has to make their MGU-H unit available to any other or is that just silly?
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Old 9 Nov 2017, 21:51 (Ref:3779691)   #2406
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Pigal View Post
My thoughts on likely engine regs, no one will be happy, but no one ****ed off enough to leave:

1. Fuel Flow curve:
Change fuel flow to increase proportional to engine speed, so 100kg/hr @ 10500rpm (same as now) then for every extra 1000rpm you increase speed the fuel limit increases by 5kg/hr (for sake of argument), so 105kg/hr @ 11500rpm, 110kg/hr @ 12500 rpm... etc. to 125kg/hr @ 15500rpm. So performance is still kept in check by fuel flow, efficiency is encouraged, but the engine is allowed to rev more naturally & hence a bit more noise.

2. MGU-H:
Currently the MGU-H power is unlimited, so they push this system to the max, so much they they hardly ever need to use the wastegate (so less noise). Seeing as the manufacturers want to keep their MGU-K then why not limit its power, I suggest that the total energy per lap from MGU-K plus MGU-H should be 2MJ (currently MGU-K alone is 2MJ) so the MGU-H will not be able to charge the battery all the time & they'll have to use the wastegate..... so more noise!

3. MGU-K:
Remove the deployment power limit (currently 120kW) but keep the battery size the same (4MJ per lap) to stop it getting any heavier. limit the power that the system can deploy itself to 60kW, but then let the driver control the rest with the push to pass button.... as I said no max power limit to this but it all has to come from the 4MJ so if your motor can do 400kW that's fine but you can only have it for a few seconds, could be fun! Regarding noise... while more RPM is going to help... it is still going to be impacted by increased efficiency (less fuel converted to noise) and a turbo.

Maybe they could mandate that each manufacture has to make their MGU-H unit available to any other or is that just silly?
Quick thoughts...

1. Not sure what a graduated rate does for anyone. In the end, they will likely run in a narrow power band anyhow which will be whatever the potential maximum flow rate allows. So in your example... why would they run at lower flow rates? At lower RPM they might be at part throttle anyhow (meaning less that 100% flow rate anyhow).

2. The amount of MGU-H power you get in the end still comes from the burning of fuel. I don't know what the limits are today, but given a specific flow rate and an expected ICE efficiency value, that is going to be your cap on MGU-H. And I could be very wrong, but while there may be a current limit on how you use MGU-H, I think there is also some part of that energy that can be used, but not stored???? So I don't think tweaking MGU-H energy usages is going to somehow impact sound of the engines. Either way... it seems like MGU-H is destined to go away. It is complex and while the current manufactures have generally figured it out (minus Honda), it is likely VERY unattractive proposition for a new manufacture.

3. In general the proposed rules are already looking to rely more upon MGU-K (which I think you are doing as well). I "think" that also includes spec parts.

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Old 10 Nov 2017, 12:04 (Ref:3779770)   #2407
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Sign of things to come?

Hugo Boss to leave F1 after almost 40 years in the sport. Off to Formula E.

Last edited by F1Guy; 10 Nov 2017 at 12:11.
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Old 10 Nov 2017, 12:56 (Ref:3779774)   #2408
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Sign of things to come?

Hugo Boss to leave F1 after almost 40 years in the sport. Off to Formula E.
Which rules do Hugo Boss draft?
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Old 10 Nov 2017, 14:45 (Ref:3779784)   #2409
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Which rules do Hugo Boss draft?
You got it all wrong... Real question... Who was the worse driver? Boss or Massa? And did he stay in F1 much too long? I for one always liked Hugo. Nice chap. I can't remember him putting a foot wrong during his racing career. His team uniforms in 1940's was a bit sketchy however.

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Old 10 Nov 2017, 15:00 (Ref:3779788)   #2410
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You got it all wrong... Real question... Who was the worse driver? Boss or Massa?
and is Vettel worse than both?
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Old 10 Nov 2017, 15:32 (Ref:3779794)   #2411
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Didn’t even notice Hugo Boss were in F1 anyway
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Old 10 Nov 2017, 16:03 (Ref:3779804)   #2412
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Which rules do Hugo Boss draft?
perhaps not directly a topic for future rules, but raises an interesting issue.

as long time sponsors like this leave for what presumably is a cheaper, better opportunity, the issue of a more equal distribution of prize money must be seen as problem which needs solving now rather than later.

obviously the logic of equal distribution suggests the teams will become (perhaps) closer in performance, but beyond that does an equal distribution protect the sport in the event that there is a mass exit of existing or traditional sponsors...is it an effective hedge?

declining viewership numbers are of course one problem leading to this but also if the new engine rules are perceived to be a technologically backwards looking move, is F1 in risk of losing more sponsors...sponsors who are increasingly more concerned with being associated with forward thinking brands/formulas?
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Old 10 Nov 2017, 16:26 (Ref:3779808)   #2413
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perhaps not directly a topic for future rules, but raises an interesting issue.

as long time sponsors like this leave for what presumably is a cheaper, better opportunity, the issue of a more equal distribution of prize money must be seen as problem which needs solving now rather than later.

obviously the logic of equal distribution suggests the teams will become (perhaps) closer in performance, but beyond that does an equal distribution protect the sport in the event that there is a mass exit of existing or traditional sponsors...is it an effective hedge?

declining viewership numbers are of course one problem leading to this but also if the new engine rules are perceived to be a technologically backwards looking move, is F1 in risk of losing more sponsors...sponsors who are increasingly more concerned with being associated with forward thinking brands/formulas?
So do we think Hugo Boss' departure is a result of (proposed) rule changes?

I've not seen the story to see what their reason for departure is.
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Old 10 Nov 2017, 16:46 (Ref:3779810)   #2414
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So do we think Hugo Boss' departure is a result of (proposed) rule changes?

I've not seen the story to see what their reason for departure is.
yeah i was just speculating so haven't read anything specific either...but i dont think its unreasonable to assume that they see FE as a better sponsorship platform going forward. certainly i would think its a cheaper option as well.
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Old 10 Nov 2017, 16:52 (Ref:3779812)   #2415
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yeah i was just speculating so haven't read anything specific either...but i dont think its unreasonable to assume that they see FE as a better sponsorship platform going forward. certainly i would think its a cheaper option as well.
It seems more like they are transferring their sponsorship of the same brand (Mercedes) into a different category. Not sure it is rules based in any way.
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Old 10 Nov 2017, 17:05 (Ref:3779813)   #2416
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It seems more like they are transferring their sponsorship of the same brand (Mercedes) into a different category. Not sure it is rules based in any way.
According to the Autosport report, it appears to be technology based. They claim that they have been looking into new technology within sport since they first appeared in the 1970s, and that FE now suits their brand.

It would seem as though mass exposure from F1 is of less importance to them than their being associated with the lesser appeal of green technology.
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Old 10 Nov 2017, 17:12 (Ref:3779814)   #2417
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Perhaps the rules went over their heads?

Or maybe the topic did...
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Old 12 Nov 2017, 14:41 (Ref:3780055)   #2418
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Didn’t even notice Hugo Boss were in F1 anyway
They are one of Mercedes' team partners.
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Old 12 Nov 2017, 22:02 (Ref:3780098)   #2419
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They are one of Mercedes' team partners.
https://goo.gl/images/oDJjEz

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Old 12 Nov 2017, 22:39 (Ref:3780104)   #2420
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Suit you Sir.

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Old 14 Nov 2017, 04:10 (Ref:3780331)   #2421
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They aren’t just sponsoring FE, it’s way more than that. They are the series’ “official apparel partner”.
https://www.autosport.com/fe/news/13...tieup-revealed

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Old 14 Nov 2017, 07:07 (Ref:3780341)   #2422
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Didn’t even notice Hugo Boss were in F1 anyway

You've never noticed this....



or this...



or this...



or as recently as this...


Wow! I can understand why Hugo Boss are leaving considering die hard F1 fans don't even notice their involvement.

I'm one of those that believe in supporting the companies that support my interests. Hugo Boss is a favourite. My accountant however, is not happy.

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Old 14 Nov 2017, 07:20 (Ref:3780342)   #2423
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It seems more like they are transferring their sponsorship of the same brand (Mercedes) into a different category. Not sure it is rules based in any way.
Is this the official reason then? Hugo Boss transferring their sponsorship of Mercedes into Formula E?? Seems like you are well informed. Could you provide a source?
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 10:04 (Ref:3780362)   #2424
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Is this the official reason then? Hugo Boss transferring their sponsorship of Mercedes into Formula E?? Seems like you are well informed. Could you provide a source?
Well - you provided the original information in this thread for Hugo Boss moving to Formula E.

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Sign of things to come?

Hugo Boss to leave F1 after almost 40 years in the sport. Off to Formula E.
I would have imagined that having posted that information you would already have the information that was released to hand?

When the original news was announced, reports stated at the time that Hugo Boss were 'following' Mercedes into FE.
Since then, further details have been announced and can be found here.

'Hugo Boss is becoming the series' 'official apparel partner'.
Its logos will appear on FE officials' clothing, the championship's demo car and trackside advertising.'

With previous information about the transfer of Mercedes funding and following the brand into FE here.

'with FE's profile growing, and manufacturers including Mercedes joining up in the near future, Hugo Boss is moving its sponsorship efforts'
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 11:44 (Ref:3780371)   #2425
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Right.. so Hugo Boss are transferring sponsorship to Formula E as a category (which is what I originally posted), and not just "transferring sponsorship to the same brand (Mercedes)" as you so confidently refuted with your post below.
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
It seems more like they are transferring their sponsorship of the same brand (Mercedes) into a different category.
If you must rebut every post of mine (which you seem to do at every opportunity), at least get your facts right. Posting that the sponsorship is staying with Mercedes but just changing racing series was a load of horse manure. And then you try to back paddle with so called "proof", that really isn't any proof to what you stated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
With previous information about the transfer of Mercedes funding and following the brand into FE here.
That article has no proof whatsoever stating Hugo Boss is just "transferring their sponsorship to the same brand (Mercedes)" in Formula E. Which is what you had incorrectly stated. Only that they're transferring as a series sponsor, which is what I had originally posted.



I posted about a 40 year sponsorship in Formula 1 ending and transferring to FE because IMO, it has significance to the direction F1 is heading in. But the first post after mine was you with the following childish post...
Quote:
Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Which rules do Hugo Boss draft?
Maybe it had nothing to do with rule changes. Maybe it did. Was it a coincidence that Hugo Boss made this announcement not long after the future engine rules were released? Perhaps, perhaps not. That was the point for my post here - to open up the discussion. If you don't feel you can contribute to the discussion, then please save the immature comments and bullsh*t for your school friends. Have a nice day.
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