Palmer

peebee2 · 11 Jun 2016, 17:20 (Ref:3648963)

You know, Jolyon Palmer (alongside Pastor Maldonado) is one of the first F1 drivers who has spent his entire career in one-make fixed-spec formula where the driver feedback is less important than the engineers experience.

It shows. Badly.

If he doesn't show a lot better in the new-to-all Baku, they'd do better to get the significantly better Ocon in there.

cds_uk · 11 Jun 2016, 18:35 (Ref:3648975)

It depends on how highly you rate Magnussen really doesn't it, the car is average at best, Jolyon is only six races into his career afterall. I rate Jolyon very highly, he has taken a while to get up to speed in every series he has raced in, hopefully Renault will give him a season, far better to judge him at the end of November.

Thundersports · 11 Jun 2016, 23:54 (Ref:3649026)

Having spent 30 odd years watching lots of single seater driver live and on telly he is no better than any half decent driver in Karting had they had the same support. I appreciate what his Father has done at his circuits and his son is a nice bloke; in F1 though he's crap i'm afraid.

Paradise City · 12 Jun 2016, 00:13 (Ref:3649027)

Often rookies screw up in their first year but go on to have fine careers. Max Verstappen has us all spoilt.

The problem with Palmer is that his team is in a painful transition period and teams like that don't have much time to give the rookie a therapeutic cuddle.

A rookie in a wobbly car but in a big name team will often get hung out to dry. So I rate the driver but I don't rate his prospects.

BSchneiderFan · 12 Jun 2016, 16:48 (Ref:3649116)

I think it's a bit early to be dismissing him as "crap". He is a GP2 champion, after all, and that's not an easy category to win. Let's wait till later in the season and see how he's stacked up against Magnussen (in what is clearly a bit of a hound of a car).

**Adam43** · 12 Jun 2016, 16:59 (Ref:3649119)

Undoubtedly he has struggled, but as mentioned above it is a team that is finding its feet again. It's not just a driver that sorts out a car.

The car also looks a hand full. Very unpredictable. As such we can't really draw too many conclusions. I wouldn't right him off just yet.

S griffin · 12 Jun 2016, 18:26 (Ref:3649135)

Don't judge him yet. You aren't GP2 champion for nothing, even if it took time. He's not the fastest, but he's a solid competent driver who deserves a chance. See his race in Melbourne to see why he is here in F1

steve_r · 13 Jun 2016, 09:29 (Ref:3649313)

Back in the day rookies were given a significantly longer time to prove themselves before they were written off. Back in the day a driver could spend weeks testing the car, which they are not allowed to now.

He's not pulled up any trees yet, but more often than now has been within a couple of tenths of his teammate who has more experience than him.

Judging by the performance of both , it's obvious that the Renault is not the car to be in this season.

Let's wait and see how the season progresses.

**bella** · 13 Jun 2016, 10:50 (Ref:3649343)

on a side note, i always love it when people who are predominantly f1 fans try and tell people who are predominantly junior motorsport fans how to judge a drivers ability

**chunterer** · 15 Jun 2016, 18:39 (Ref:3650062)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

on a side note, i always love it when people who are predominantly f1 fans try and tell people who are predominantly junior motorsport fans how to judge a drivers ability

Hmmm you've noticed that too?

People saying that the car is rubbish and the team is in transision is fair enough but I also think those are precisely the circumstances where a truly good driver can make people sit up and notice.

Palmer hasn't done anything of note. He needed a very user friendly car for his debut season where he could just drive it hard without much aggro. A Force India would be an example.

Magnussen has also struggled but there have been a lot of sessions and races where he has been demonstrably quicker.

Seeing as these cars are supposedly easier to drive than F1 cars of the recent past it doesn't shower Jolyon in much glory.

peebee2 · 15 Jun 2016, 20:10 (Ref:3650127)

Exactly. My original point was that JoP hasn't learned what he should have in the junior formula, as he did the wrong ones. Would actually have been massively cheaper to do the more expensive junior formulas for the lessons he found have learned. Winning GP2 in your infinite season has been proven to mean FA.

And you are right. If you aren't quick enough today you would have had no chance at all in the 80s and 90s when the cars were so much harder to handle

cds_uk · 15 Jun 2016, 20:25 (Ref:3650154)

Chunt, peebee, i really don't see how the fact that modern F1 cars are supposedly easier to drive than cars from a few years ago has got anything to do with how good or bad Jolyon is. Out of curiosity how long would you give him? i am assuming you would both drop Ocon into the car at the soonest opportunity, and what if he struggled and looked a bit shaky, then what, bomb him out after half a dozen races?

**chunterer** · 17 Jun 2016, 18:20 (Ref:3651039)

No I wouldn't put Ocon into that situation.

OZ_HCR32 · 18 Jun 2016, 03:20 (Ref:3651166)

I will reserve my judgement until the back end of the season when hopefully Renault have staffed up, understand the car better and get some more from the cars. At the moment i cant differentiate between him carrying a car drama or driver being off the mark.

It does hurt when his team mate can strangle more performance from the car for the more noticable peaks in performance-quali

**FIRE** · 18 Jun 2016, 09:21 (Ref:3651235)

I assume he will be replaced by Ocon next season.

**chunterer** · 20 Jun 2016, 05:48 (Ref:3653746)

I felt bad for Jo yesterday. He was doing very well earlier in the race despite a first lap biff (with a Sauber was it?) But then struggled on strategy later on.

I guess splitting strategies of the two Regie pedallers helps the team understand car and tyre performance better but one of them will always end up with a disappointing result at the end of it. Not helpful for an inexperienced F1 driver.

cds_uk · 20 Jun 2016, 10:19 (Ref:3653785)

I thought he did ok over the course of the weekend, matched Magnussen in qualy and was within 10 or so seconds of him at the end of the race, not too shabby really.

peebee2 · 20 Jun 2016, 20:24 (Ref:3653945)

Depends if you rate Magnussen at the highest level. McLaren didn't in the end and he only got the Regie gig as he had the biggest bag of gold...

Enstone must be tearing their hair out with the level of technical feedback from their pilots...

Tourer · 20 Jun 2016, 22:06 (Ref:3653966)

The commentary we get on FTA TV here in Oz is from Ben Edwards / DC. I found it interesting that they didn't mention Palmer other than once through the entire race - it was all Lewis, Lewis Lewis.

When the commentary is from Brits being broadcast to Brits it has been more usual before now for the fortunes of Brit drivers to get some mention during the broadcast but in this instance, virtually nothing which leaves me suspecting that they don't rate him either.

Moving to F1 from anything else can be an overwhelming experience and more so into a team that was nearly dead but suddenly finds itself with "factory" status. My feeling is that JP should be given more time to show what he can do but the clock is ticking, no doubt about it - probably for both Renault drivers really.

cds_uk · 21 Jun 2016, 20:40 (Ref:3654294)

Well, as i said, he matched Magnussen in qualy for what it was worth, and lets not forget that for the race Magnussen started from the pit lane so he could change his suspension set up. I appreciate that you can't read much that into it but Jolyons best lap was 1.7 secs quicker than Magnussens aswell, 8th best lap of the race.

**chunterer** · 22 Jun 2016, 10:28 (Ref:3654391)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peebee2

Depends if you rate Magnussen at the highest level. McLaren didn't in the end and he only got the Regie gig as he had the biggest bag of gold...

Enstone must be tearing their hair out with the level of technical feedback from their pilots...

He wasn't dropped because he wasn't good enough, where did you learn that!

**chunterer** · 22 Jun 2016, 10:29 (Ref:3654392)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cds_uk

I appreciate that you can't read much that into it but Jolyons best lap was 1.7 secs quicker than Magnussens aswell, 8th best lap of the race.

Fair play to Jo, I'd like him to do well all the time, but I don't think he is capable of it.

BSchneiderFan · 22 Jun 2016, 13:22 (Ref:3654431)

Like I say, let's hold on until he's got a season under his belt and see how he stacks up against Magnussen. Enstone must know better than anyone what he's capable of, and they signed him. That, plus a GP2 title, should count at least for a stay of execution.

peebee2 · 22 Jun 2016, 14:03 (Ref:3654439)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

He wasn't dropped because he wasn't good enough, where did you learn that!

Course not. They knew he was the likely next new World Champ and they thought it would be unfair on all the other teams if they kept him.

chillibowl · 22 Jun 2016, 16:01 (Ref:3654482)

dont know how accurate or what context these quotes were made or how seriously Renault would even take the offer, but apparently Horner/RB are offering up Buemi for a race seat.

Renault may find itself with a few solid options to choose from next year.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns34179.html

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Formula Palmer Audi Cancelled!!	Dan Friel	National & International Single Seaters	46	13 Apr 2001 16:05
Formula Palmer Audi vs Formula 3	rafaelshumy	National & International Single Seaters	2	12 Mar 2001 19:35
Formula Palmer Audi Stickers	Gideon	National & International Single Seaters	3	2 Mar 2001 15:22
Formula Palmer Audi	Lee Purnell	National & Club Racing	11	14 Apr 2000 09:57
Formula Palmer Audi Schedule?	F1FansClub	National & Club Racing	4	31 Jan 2000 22:14