Autosport International

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by midgetman

As long as it's wealthy collectors who also like to play with their toys this can only be a good thing. I welcome the Festival events and their high-rolling competitors for several reasons, not least they are better than standing at a muddy clubbie to spectate at, and they drag in so many speccies that someone, somewhere, must be energised to race themselves so the sport gets new blood.

Never mind the business advantages for me

Yes you have a good point in terms of ithe cars being used, that wasn't always the case and thankfully there have been efforts in the last couple of years to tempt these cars owners out to play.

As long as it means that lesser mortals have a chance to run something as well that isn't going to bankrupt them!

But then historic racing has never been budget racing.

[Hunter1300]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yes you have a good point in terms of ithe cars being used, that wasn't always the case and thankfully there have been efforts in the last couple of years to tempt these cars owners out to play.

As long as it means that lesser mortals have a chance to run something as well that isn't going to bankrupt them!

Its a tough one really because as a lesser mortal purchasing a cheaper car (saving it from the scrap yard!) lovingly restoring to original condition over 5 years has resulted in an uncompetitive car that will never be able to compete against the larger big budget racers thus its sale will be happening come April at Essen show. :-(

[Peter Mallett]

There will always be someone with more money/developments than you. You have to get used to that. The downside of development is the loss of reliability, so sometimes you can win when initially you don't think you have a chance.

The opportunity to race a car with history is almost more important than winning; and frankly there are times when just having a dice is better than racing against cars of the same class. If I thought McLaren was going to call me up, I'd obviously think differently but as they aren't, I don't.

[Hunter1300]

Forgive me gentlemen, rereading my post it may seem as thou I'm throwing my teddy of the the pram an giving it all up, this isn't the case Infact it a realisation of a dream firstly of getting back on track an secondly building an driving a REAL piece of touring car history. The sale of the car is needed as I know I need a different toy to bring to the party if I'm going to even keep up with the pace car!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

There will always be someone with more money/developments than you. You have to get used to that. The downside of development is the loss of reliability, so sometimes you can win when initially you don't think you have a chance.

The opportunity to race a car with history is almost more important than winning; and frankly there are times when just having a dice is better than racing against cars of the same class. If I thought McLaren was going to call me up, I'd obviously think differently but as they aren't, I don't.

Jonathan, it is an arms race out there, even in historics! If you want an even playing field look at a one make championship. When people are prepared to fund and build a second car as they don't think their first is quick enough, and that car is already a race winner, it puts it into perspective. Sell the NSU to fund the new project by all means, but restore the 'new toy' to homologated spec, get HTP papers if you can afford to, and appreciate it for what it is- a historic car. It won't be competitive against those that just have to win, but it will be accepted by any race organiser and ultimately, if you need to sell, worth more.

I'll get off me soap box now.......

[Hunter1300]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Jonathan, it is an arms race out there, even in historics! If you want an even playing field look at a one make championship. When people are prepared to fund and build a second car as they don't think their first is quick enough, and that car is already a race winner, it puts it into perspective. Sell the NSU to fund the new project by all means, but restore the 'new toy' to homologated spec, get HTP papers if you can afford to, and appreciate it for what it is- a historic car. It won't be competitive against those that just have to win, but it will be accepted by any race organiser and ultimately, if you need to sell, worth more.

I'll get off me soap box now.......

OUCH!!!!! Mike never mind 6" of snow more like sub zero frostiness one Yorkshire man considering himself told!!!!



I know all forms of racing even one make series are budget related, when I was racing Karts, I was a tad younger and a 3 stone lighter, I finished fifth in the championship spending a budget of HALF the guy that won the championship!

30+ seconds a lap slower at oulton is a little harsh currently. The 'new toy' should hopefully at least bring me into the same race.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Jonathan, it is an arms race out there, even in historics! If you want an even playing field look at a one make championship. When people are prepared to fund and build a second car as they don't think their first is quick enough, and that car is already a race winner, it puts it into perspective. Sell the NSU to fund the new project by all means, but restore the 'new toy' to homologated spec, get HTP papers if you can afford to, and appreciate it for what it is- a historic car. It won't be competitive against those that just have to win, but it will be accepted by any race organiser and ultimately, if you need to sell, worth more.

Well put Michael my man. That, as they say is it in a nutshell.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Hunter1300

OUCH!!!!! Mike never mind 6" of snow more like sub zero frostiness one Yorkshire man considering himself told!!!!

The snow is still here and it's been a tough day. Just had a beer though so thawing slowly...

Not meaning to have a go at you, it's just that, sometimes, the way some people perceive / approach historic racing starts to grate!

I have to re-read the first paragraph of appendix K sometimes to remind myself what it should be about. "The FiA have created the regulations so that historic cars may be used for competitions under a set of rules that preserve the specifications of their period and prevent the modifications of performance and behaviour which could arise through the application of modern technology."

Then the best bit- "Historic competition is not simply another formula in which to acquire trophies, it is a discipline apart, in which one of the essential ingredients is a devotion to the cars and their history."

That's the way I try and approach it, whether with an FiA car or otherwise, but many appear to have an alternative view!

[Clive Brown]

"Historic competition is not simply another formula in which to acquire trophies, it is a discipline apart, in which one of the essential ingredients is a devotion to the cars and their history."

....and I believe in the Government's good intent.

[Hunter1300]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

The snow is still here and it's been a tough day. Just had a beer though so thawing slowly...

Not meaning to have a go at you, it's just that, sometimes, the way some people perceive / approach historic racing starts to grate!

No offence taken Mike Im a little thicker skinned than that, and thou i was having a moan about the little warrior being a little steady I do share your view on 'period spec' histeric racing there have been too many Non historic spec cars on the grid across the board..... HSCC Masters legends

I do like : "Historic competition is not simply another formula in which to acquire trophies, it is a discipline apart, in which one of the essential ingredients is a devotion to the cars and their history."

Maybe worth sending a memo round the paddocks

And at the sweet age of just 30 years old I have a long time ahead of racing, building and preping histerics...... which leads me onto a question I thought about a while ago....... Average age of any given historic grid?

[Moosehead]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

"The FiA have created the regulations so that historic cars may be used for competitions under a set of rules that preserve the specifications of their period and prevent the modifications of performance and behaviour which could arise through the application of modern technology."

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Hunter1300

Average age of any given historic grid?

Drivers or Cars?

It has been suggested before that the FIA statement should be at the top of regs for any historic race series, but then it was pointed out that they are very rarely read.........

[terence]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

Its not intended to amuse Moose,it just has quite a few typos .
Possibly one of the most unread sentences in the "Historic" world.

[Peter Mallett]

Actually, the failing is that the FIA then shoots itself in the foot with the 'by the way' if you can show a photo of the car competing in an international event with 'whatever the current owner thinks it needs to win' then you can run it.

We call this contra proferentum in English law. It means that a contradictory statement must always be construed in favour of the claimant. Hence the problems arising from poetic licence.

Now, on to my news. I have just agreed a deal on what I think is a significant piece of BTCC history. Hopefully we'll have it up and running for next year. All I need to do now is get a job!

[johngee]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

We call this contra proferentum in English law. It means that a contradictory statement must always be construed in favour of the claimant. Hence the problems arising from poetic licence.

I knew it was a mistake for you to get a legal based professional qualification. I hope that we don't meet 'officially' in future - I believe you would win the resulting arguement.

[Al Weyman]

And as far as photos go there are some very clever Photoshoppers out there now that can really make the camera lie!

[Peter Mallett]

As has been pointed out previously, the camera can, and has been made to lie, for many years. But with photoshop it is a lot easier now.

You would still need a magazine article but I suspect that wouldn't be beyond some "professional" amateurs either.

However it still comes back to the basic ethos of racing. If you want to cheat and win then carry on, the rest of us will enjoy racing against legal cars. This is why I don't get too uptight about the legality thing. I know who is running what.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Now, on to my news. I have just agreed a deal on what I think is a significant piece of BTCC history. Hopefully we'll have it up and running for next year. All I need to do now is get a job!

It's not in the USA, is it? If so that's why my emails are not getting answered......

[Peter Mallett]

LOL, nope.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

It's not in the USA, is it? If so that's why my emails are not getting answered......

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

LOL, nope.

LOL!!!!

That's the first car that came to mind too Peter... LOL

[AntA35]

What year of the BTCC Peter?

Exciting!

[Peter Mallett]

Don't you start!

1980-81.

[Mike Bell]

Come on Peter, we know you are itching to tell us! Gotta be a Rover or a Capri- cant see you in a Fiesta or RX7.

We'll wheedle the info out eventually.......

[Peter Mallett]

I shall post a pic when I get to see it.

[AntA35]

Don't think it will be Capri, but could be if a Spice...

Rover?
Corolla?