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Old 21 Nov 2011, 08:16 (Ref:2989460)   #351
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Originally Posted by bluesport View Post
The organisers obviously think so.........B1000 only has 28 starters.
Which is not enough.
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Old 21 Nov 2011, 08:20 (Ref:2989463)   #352
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Originally Posted by Belly13 View Post
Yes, 100% true. Still unsure whether Mal was given a valid reason as to why not....
Maybe because it's 132 years old and should be put out to pasture? That old horse and cart will be eligible for historics shortly.....
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Old 21 Nov 2011, 08:56 (Ref:2989473)   #353
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Great news, the last thing this race needs is V8 commodores polluting the event.
which is code for...

the last thing it needs is the public getting interested in this event
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Old 21 Nov 2011, 09:16 (Ref:2989478)   #354
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which is code for...

the last thing it needs is the public getting interested in this event
.......code for "the thin end of the wedge"........the last thing Australian motorsport needs is more of that category.
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Old 21 Nov 2011, 09:30 (Ref:2989487)   #355
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I would have loved to see Mal Rose's Commodore in the 12 Hour, will they turn up in the Nissan R35 GTR again then?

Also does anyone know whether Peter Hackett is entering his Mercedes SLS or teaming up with Black Falcon and driving one of their cars?
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Old 21 Nov 2011, 09:58 (Ref:2989511)   #356
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I would have loved to see Mal Rose's Commodore in the 12 Hour, will they turn up in the Nissan R35 GTR again then?

Also does anyone know whether Peter Hackett is entering his Mercedes SLS or teaming up with Black Falcon and driving one of their cars?
Still no statement on who or what will be coming down next year. Only thing is that 2 cars are on the entry list on the 24hour series site.
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Old 21 Nov 2011, 10:00 (Ref:2989514)   #357
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Great news, the last thing this race needs is V8 commodores polluting the event.
Clearly learned the lesson of the 24 hour race & the 2 door commodore.
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Old 21 Nov 2011, 10:11 (Ref:2989519)   #358
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Yes, 100% true. Still unsure whether Mal was given a valid reason as to why not....
Thats poor form if true, He runs in the same overseas events that the B12hr is now trying to emulate and it would have been good to have a local car in with a chance for a good placing.

My first gut reaction is that this is political, and perhaps also snobbing the local v8 racing scene. Wouldnt want a modded v8 supercar mixing it with the ideal gt3 image they seem to be aspiring to.

Very unfair decision when there are plenty of other enduro style "mongrels" that will be allowed to turn up.
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Old 21 Nov 2011, 11:43 (Ref:2989558)   #359
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Is the event in a position to be turning away cars though? With only 30 - 35 cars entered
If it wants to gain credibility it should.
The event should be for the latest and greatest in motoring.
Not a butchers picnic.

Quality over quantity.
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Old 21 Nov 2011, 16:20 (Ref:2989671)   #360
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Thats poor form if true, He runs in the same overseas events that the B12hr is now trying to emulate and it would have been good to have a local car in with a chance for a good placing.

My first gut reaction is that this is political, and perhaps also snobbing the local v8 racing scene. Wouldnt want a modded v8 supercar mixing it with the ideal gt3 image they seem to be aspiring to.

Very unfair decision when there are plenty of other enduro style "mongrels" that will be allowed to turn up.
These are fair points. There's an important difference between Mal's car being eligible at an overseas event, and locally at the 12 hour; on foreign soil, there's an element of novelty.
That isn't so, locally.

The marketability of the 12 hour is now directly tied to the event being one of international persuasion, allure, and variety.
At present, no other event within Australia provides this with the same (or similar) level of perceived professionalism.

The organisers are trying to differentiate themselves from what the local market currently offers and, in my view, that seems fairly reasonable.

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Old 21 Nov 2011, 19:59 (Ref:2989748)   #361
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These are fair points. There's an important difference between Mal's car being eligible at an overseas event, and locally at the 12 hour; on foreign soil, there's an element of novelty.
That isn't so, locally.

The marketability of the 12 hour is now directly tied to the event being one of international persuasion, allure, and variety.
At present, no other event within Australia provides this with the same (or similar) level of perceived professionalism.

The organisers are trying to differentiate themselves from what the local market currently offers and, in my view, that seems fairly reasonable.
I do agree to a certain degree with the allure/profesionalism argument, and the idea of multiple v8supercar style vehicles in the race does kind of erk me at first but on second thought i also think it would be fantastic.

But it seems we have all forgotten the announcement halfway through the year that Commodore Cup is eligible for the event. Now thats a hell of a long way from the kind of image any of us really anticipate for the event so this decision is a strange one without the background knowledge.

So we have Asian and European teams allowed to enter a mix of completely modified endurance vehicles, and a precedent of the commodore cup cars being eligible. It is trully unfair for them to kick back Mal's entry.

The sad thing is that he does a very good job overseas showing what aussie privateer teams can do with a relatively fast car and gained plenty of respect. But here in his home country at a track synonymous with v8's and at an event that is trying to attract the competition he races against he isnt allowed in.

We sometimes get so obsessed with the with the image and elitesm(spelling?) of european cars that we bag the hell out of our local road and racing product when so many in the rest of the world love it.

I wouldnt want to see to many of this type of vehicle in the race, but for someone who puts a huge effort into racing overseas with a well prepared vehicle i think this is a massive slap in the face for mal when he isnt welcome to compete in his home race.

Last edited by nafe!; 21 Nov 2011 at 20:13.
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Old 21 Nov 2011, 20:19 (Ref:2989755)   #362
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If the organisers start letting V8supercars compete, holden will have Gary Rogers or T8 building specialised highly modified mongrels and possibly kill the event altogether, just like the B24hr........keep the bogans out.
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Old 22 Nov 2011, 01:06 (Ref:2989835)   #363
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But let the Commodore Cup cars in!?! Lot of sense in that lol!
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Old 22 Nov 2011, 01:17 (Ref:2989836)   #364
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But let the Commodore Cup cars in!?! Lot of sense in that lol!
It does seem strange, but let one V8 supercar in and then they have to let them all in, and who is going to scrutinise that they conform to the regs? Then the O/seas teams don't return because they've been blown away by a bunch of mongrels.
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Old 22 Nov 2011, 02:39 (Ref:2989857)   #365
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Old 22 Nov 2011, 03:28 (Ref:2989869)   #366
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I don't know much about Mal's car, but if it's not a true production based racecar then I agree it shouldn't be allowed in, a V8 Supercar is not a production based racecar. It's closer to a Sports Sedan.

While the Commodore Cup cars are a production based race car, I really don't understand why they would want 15 year old Commodores racing with some of the worlds greatest GT racecars. Nothing against Commodore Cup of course, but it's just not going to make visual sense.
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Old 22 Nov 2011, 03:37 (Ref:2989870)   #367
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Old 22 Nov 2011, 05:36 (Ref:2989879)   #368
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I do agree to a certain degree with the allure/profesionalism argument, and the idea of multiple v8supercar style vehicles in the race does kind of erk me at first but on second thought i also think it would be fantastic.

But it seems we have all forgotten the announcement halfway through the year that Commodore Cup is eligible for the event. Now thats a hell of a long way from the kind of image any of us really anticipate for the event so this decision is a strange one without the background knowledge.

So we have Asian and European teams allowed to enter a mix of completely modified endurance vehicles, and a precedent of the commodore cup cars being eligible. It is trully unfair for them to kick back Mal's entry.

The sad thing is that he does a very good job overseas showing what aussie privateer teams can do with a relatively fast car and gained plenty of respect. But here in his home country at a track synonymous with v8's and at an event that is trying to attract the competition he races against he isnt allowed in.

We sometimes get so obsessed with the with the image and elitesm(spelling?) of european cars that we bag the hell out of our local road and racing product when so many in the rest of the world love it.

I wouldnt want to see to many of this type of vehicle in the race, but for someone who puts a huge effort into racing overseas with a well prepared vehicle i think this is a massive slap in the face for mal when he isnt welcome to compete in his home race.
Should have added to the original post; the organisers likely wouldn't have significantly harmed the event's image by allowing Mal to run.
The announcement just further highlights the direction the organisers have opted to run with. It may seem brash to some. It's just the organisers attempting to differentiate themselves.

Commodore Cup entries are substantionally different cars, significantly closer to production-spec and, as such slower. They're able to be classified within a lower category. Mal's car would run (although likely not in contention) for outright victory (as far as I'm aware). It's worth considering this is possibly the reasoning for the organiser's difference in opinion concerning the eligibility of each.

GT3 entries are the event's major drawcard. Providing the best possible platform for their competition is now (or should be) the event's primary focus.
In regards to 'image' or 'elitism' perceptions, it's worth remembering that factory representation from Audi, Mercedes and, likely any other marque comes attached with certain obligations from the organisers.

At this point, it's difficult to gauge whether said obligations (if existent) are worth potentially damaging relations with local operations.
Based on what they offer to the 12 hour, in terms of differentiation from competing (local) events, one would think so.

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Potentially related?
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...ltra-launched/

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Old 22 Nov 2011, 06:01 (Ref:2989884)   #369
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Local entries and cars really need to be written into the regs for this race. There is no way you can rely solely on international entries for a race this far away from the centre of GT racing in Europe, especially given the possible lack of local GT3 cars entering the race.

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While the Commodore Cup cars are a production based race car,
What is 'production based' about VS Commodore's running around with a 4.2ltr carby V8s?
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Old 22 Nov 2011, 06:10 (Ref:2989885)   #370
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Thats my guess-unless Phoenix are leaving a car here. Which begs the question will the ultra version be the one they are campaigning or the older LMS version? Probably wont know until just before the event.

As much as I have loved seeing Mal Rose and his Commodore at the Ring I personally dont want to see V8 Supercars in this race-thats the point of this race-its a race at Bathurst which doesnt have V8 Supercars, its a race for GT and 'Production' type cars (dont ask me why the Commodore Cup cars there-not my decision).

Im in two minds about having Mal Rose's V8, part of me thinks that if he can race in overseas race like Bathurst who run to the same rules then he should get a start but on the other hand I dont want V8 Supercars to be part of this race, Im hanging out for the GT cars.

You could make an exception for Mal but then a V8 Supercar team would probably want to enter with a VE (Im not joking I could seriously see it happening) and then that would kill the appeal of the race for me and I wouldnt be the only one with that mindset.
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Old 22 Nov 2011, 06:30 (Ref:2989887)   #371
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Local entries and cars really need to be written into the regs for this race. There is no way you can rely solely on international entries for a race this far away from the centre of GT racing in Europe, especially given the possible lack of local GT3 cars entering the race.



What is 'production based' about VS Commodore's running around with a 4.2ltr carby V8s?
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Thats my guess-unless Phoenix are leaving a car here. Which begs the question will the ultra version be the one they are campaigning or the older LMS version? Probably wont know until just before the event.

As much as I have loved seeing Mal Rose and his Commodore at the Ring I personally dont want to see V8 Supercars in this race-thats the point of this race-its a race at Bathurst which doesnt have V8 Supercars, its a race for GT and 'Production' type cars (dont ask me why the Commodore Cup cars there-not my decision).

Im in two minds about having Mal Rose's V8, part of me thinks that if he can race in overseas race like Bathurst who run to the same rules then he should get a start but on the other hand I dont want V8 Supercars to be part of this race, Im hanging out for the GT cars.

You could make an exception for Mal but then a V8 Supercar team would probably want to enter with a VE (Im not joking I could seriously see it happening) and then that would kill the appeal of the race for me and I wouldnt be the only one with that mindset.
That's my belief, also. The event organisers have attempted to boost their local quota via both GT and touring entries. Unfortunately for Mal's *******ised creation, it falls outside the event's ethos. For reasons related to both the local market, and perceived professionalism.

There's no disputing the importance of local entries. It's a fine line, however. Inclusion of this specific car is not considered to be in the best interests of the event - likely for reasons highlighted above by Rich. The system isn't perfect. If the event is to expand in the direction organisers have chosen, decisions like this need to be made.

In regards to the R8; fairly sure AudiSport stated Phoenix would be running 2x 2012-spec R8 LMS. Since the Ultra is the 2012-spec variant, it seems likely they'll enter two of those.
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Old 22 Nov 2011, 06:54 (Ref:2989893)   #372
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A bunch of new Audis are in country. I have a story coming up on it.
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Old 22 Nov 2011, 07:29 (Ref:2989901)   #373
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How many Commodore Cup entrants are likely though? The budget to do the 12hr would run close to matching the budget for the rest of the year right? How many of those teams would have that sort of money available and the willingness to do the extra prep. etc to run around at the back of the field jumping out of the way of Audis and Ferraris for 12 hours for minimal TV time?
Utes have been eligible in the past and it is not like the 12 hour gets over run with them.
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Old 22 Nov 2011, 08:34 (Ref:2989913)   #374
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Thats my guess-unless Phoenix are leaving a car here. Which begs the question will the ultra version be the one they are campaigning or the older LMS version? Probably wont know until just before the event.

As much as I have loved seeing Mal Rose and his Commodore at the Ring I personally dont want to see V8 Supercars in this race-thats the point of this race-its a race at Bathurst which doesnt have V8 Supercars, its a race for GT and 'Production' type cars (dont ask me why the Commodore Cup cars there-not my decision).

Im in two minds about having Mal Rose's V8, part of me thinks that if he can race in overseas race like Bathurst who run to the same rules then he should get a start but on the other hand I dont want V8 Supercars to be part of this race, Im hanging out for the GT cars.

You could make an exception for Mal but then a V8 Supercar team would probably want to enter with a VE (Im not joking I could seriously see it happening) and then that would kill the appeal of the race for me and I wouldnt be the only one with that mindset.
well said mate. I love checking out how mal does in europe when he races. But we all know how the bathurst 24 hour went.
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Old 22 Nov 2011, 08:50 (Ref:2989921)   #375
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Local entries and cars really need to be written into the regs for this race. There is no way you can rely solely on international entries for a race this far away from the centre of GT racing in Europe, especially given the possible lack of local GT3 cars entering the race.

What is 'production based' about VS Commodore's running around with a 4.2ltr carby V8s?
Is there anything stopping someone running the latest HSV GTS or Ford equivalent? So what's stopping someone from running a genuine local entry?

Personally I don't think the Commodore Cup cars should be running in this field but they are a hell of a lot closer to a production original than a V8 Supercar. Commodore Cup are modified production based touring cars. V8 Supercars are ground up purpose built racecars.
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