3 Pedal Prost?

[joseff]

StarTV commentators made mention during the race about Jean Alesi having to acclimatize to the Jordan because he was used to a 3-pedal layout in the Prost. Erm... automatic gearbox, clutch pedal... doesn't add up. Comments, anyone?

[duckers]

The term 'Automatic Gearbox' in F1 is very misleading into I think you are talking about the conventional auto gearbox in most road cars. In F1 the auto gearbox is the same as a semi automatic with a clutch and sequential shifting only that the 'automatic' part is done by the ECU or some other control unit whith pre-programmed shift points, so instead of the driver shifting, the control unit does at the right time for optimum performance.
The use of conventional automatic transmission with a fluid coupling (torque converter) would be very inefficient in F1 as it would sap a large amount of power from the engine, and aslo I would of thought that it would delay the acceleration of the driveshafts ( therefore the car)in relation of the acceleration of the engine crankshaft through the inertia of the fluid (oil) in the coupling between the impeller and the turbine known as 'slip' which wouldn't be very helpful for racing purposes, hence the solid connection of a friction clutch in an F1 car where the input shaft of the gearbox revolves at the same speed as the crankshaft as opposed to the autobox with a torque converter the input shaft of the gearbox rotates at about 98% of engine RPM when max engine RPM is acheived.
I also think the reason for a clutch pedal still is that I'm fairly sure that the driver can override the control unit or switch it off so he can shift manually if he wanted to.

Hope that isn't too complicated or too long to understand fully.

Duckers

P.S. Note that the driver does need to engage the clutch when shifting manually because this is done by the control unit hence he doesn't need to lift off the accelerator, the ECU modulates the throtte for the shifting known as the 'Shift Without Lift' system.

[joseff]

That's what I thought also: that the driver doesn't need to press the clutch pedal for gearshifts. That's taken care of by the dogs.

In other words: Jean Alesi has been driving with 2 pedals ALL ALONG. The clutch pedal isn't used except at the start. So why the need to "adjust" to the new car?

[elephino]

The clutch in modern F1 cars is either a pedal or a thing on the dash which is pulled/pushed depending on which style the driver prefers and which the team has designed (or both).

It is used only for the start and for pitstops. The clutch operation the rest of the time is controlled by computers along with the whole gear change. Until Spain, the driver had to pull a lever behind the steering wheel to change gears (right side for up and left for down on most, if not all). From Spain on, fully automatic gearboxes returned where the computers decided when to shift and also drivers could press a button on their steering wheel and the car would change down from, say, 6th to 2nd gear.

[sunbeam73]

I think the issue with Alesi is that he "doesn't do left foot braking"
Formula 1 drivers have their right foot on the accelerator and the left foot on the brake, with a steering mounted hand operated clutch for the starts. Drivers actually press the brake pedal in some corners without lifting the accelerator for various reasons. Alesi cant do this!

Sean

[joseff]

From all the posts on this topic, can I conclude that the commentator(s) are mistaken? We all seem to agree that the location of the clutch controller (lever/pedal/button) is irrelevant. And if Alesi can't cope with left foot braking, that doesn't seem to be an issue with Ferrari & Rubens Barrichello - they simply offset both pedals to the right for right foot access.

[elephino]

The problem may be that the design of the Jordan cockpit doesn't allow for the brake pedal to be moved to the right to allow Alesi to brake as he used to do in the Prost.

[rubinhothebest]

Hi everyone.
According to what Spanish commentators say, the matter of Alesi is that he is a veteran driver, who has had three pedals for all his career, and can't get used to the levers behind the wheel for the clutch function ( it works as a normal clutch but only at the start and pitstops, to put 1st), so he has to ask for a third pedal, which adds more weight ( the other drivers don't have this problem). Jordan's original design for the car didn't include this pedal, so it has to be fixed for Alesi.
In respect for the braking, I suppose that he brakes with the rigt foot, which has nothing to do with a third pedal.

[KIMISIS]

Now for a minute there in light of the title of this thread I thought you might be referring to the Prost team reverting to pedal power as it may prove more successful than the conventional methods of an engine! But after having read on, all has become clear!!

[honest ron]

jean alesi has had the pedal arrangement sorted out by his new team.......on the clutch theory.....he now uses a paddle on the steering wheel which has caused him some upset....as he uses the clutch during cornering .

[shazzman]

Hello people, I just discovered this site today and well lovin it so far... All of u seem to have your head screwed on right as far as F1 goes, however I cannot believe Alesi uses the clutch during cornering..That is very odd, i don't understand why U'd say that or how it would help him round a corner, let alone the fact that those clutches are designed for 4 to 5 starts max...Enlighten me.

[joseff]

I re-read an old (1991) Road&Track issue a couple of days back. Tiff Needell was driving an FW15 Williams which had a sequential box. Upshifting is simply a matter of flicking the right side paddle, however in those days you needed to heel and toe for downshifts. Note that he said "heel-and-toe" and not "blip the throttle" which implies that you DO have to press the left pedal in those cars.

So yes, apparently the clutch is used for more than starting. And at least my mom uses the clutch while cornering...

[honest ron]

yep......it keeps the revs high, and on the balance of shifting gers which take the jordan 1 tenth of a second, i guess that you could possibly save 2 tenths on a corner by not going down a gear and then not having to return back up a gear.... all time saved by cluth use.

well i guess that is in theory but then again human judgement is not as good as a machine/computer....but on this i guess that maybe even a tenth may be saved and thats a fair amount in f1.

[chunder]

Guys, this is all more comlpicated than it needs to be.
Jean prefers a clutch pedal rather than two pedals, he doesn't use it but for the start I think though how that effects launch control I don't know.
Same with Jacques, he used toi use the flipper backward for up change and forward for downchange with the clutch on the other side.
Jean doesn't left foot brake so needs a different pedal box anyway, heard it all from EJ on the TV.
If you are paying someone that amount of money you are going to make sure they are happy, no? So they put in a clutch pedal, whether he uses it or not is irrevelant.

[honest ron]

i am sure that jean said after the hungary qualifying that he uses clutch during cornering..... thats the theory that i base my post on.