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Old 18 Aug 2009, 20:32 (Ref:2523936)   #26
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Originally Posted by Ed Peters View Post
IF only it would be that simple... If you read the PROPOSED regs, the suspension and running gear will be 'standardised'! That means non-manufacturer standard!

SO, the current suspension layout would not be accepted for a NGTC entry!
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Originally Posted by New rules press release
This TOCA engine may also be available for use in upgrading S2000 cars in the future, to reduce engine costs for those teams and extend the competitive life of their current cars.
OK, it hasn't been confirmed that NGTC engines will be permitted in S2000 chassis, but if they are that would be an option.
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Old 18 Aug 2009, 20:52 (Ref:2523952)   #27
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Originally Posted by duke_toaster View Post
OK, it hasn't been confirmed that NGTC engines will be permitted in S2000 chassis, but if they are that would be an option.
Don't get me wrong. I think it would be a good idea!

Some of the teams I have spoken to say that there is nothing wrong with the S2000 chassis, it's just the extortionate price of the engines and their rebuild costs.
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Old 19 Aug 2009, 19:44 (Ref:2524574)   #28
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Okay, rumours so far for 2010

Team Dynamics: Matt Neal will return home where he belongs.
Arena: Will carry on with the Focus.
WSR: Will run the BMW for the last year.
Motorbase: Will carry on with BMW.
888: Will not run Vauxhalls.

There are no other rumours on the other teams, just educational guess's.
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Old 20 Aug 2009, 00:29 (Ref:2524725)   #29
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No idea. And generally, the only people we'd trust at this point would be those already in the championship - and only then if they were Team Dynamics, West Surrey Racing, Triple Eight or Ray Mallock Ltd.

Dodgy game this touring cars.

- We expect Team Dynamics to be there - most certainly with the Civic again.
- We expect West Surrey Racing to be there if the RAC money stays, and with BMW's.
- We hope that Triple Eight will be there, running the old Vectra still - though whispers have been mentioned around Kia's.
- Don't expect Ray Mallock to be there unless a big sponsorship drive turns up. If it does, maybe in the 2009 WTCC Cruze's - it'll be good timing as the car will just be turning up here (so maybe with Chevrolet backing?).

Kia's and Chevrolet's, hmmm. Does that sound like the Scrappage Touring Car Championship to you?
With Vauxhall (and therefore General Motors) pulling the plug it would be silly and nasty towards 888 if they (GM) supported Ray Mallock Limited in the Btcc. I suppose there's a good chance of seeing at least a Cruze next year, I don't think Plato will give up after the good season he's enjoying. I don't think 888 will be there as an independant, I think they might sell the cars to someone. If they do stay, it'll be for a paying driver, possibly Andy Jordan. From what I've heard from Fabrizio the last time I've spoken to him, the Kia rumours are absolutely untrue and he's still looking for a 2010 drive, with the seious risk of having to retire or to settle for some national GT series, which would be a real shame... Anyway, unlike Thommo with N Technology, Fabrizio's contract is with Vauxhall, not with 888, which means he's not engaged to anyone at the moment, so Giovanardi and 888 are both not forced to enter the championship with him at the wheel.
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Old 20 Aug 2009, 07:15 (Ref:2524822)   #30
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Let me do some thinking here: Giovanardi has a contract with Vauxhall. If Vauxhall does not race next year, they have to pay Gio his salary anyway, or a fee to get out of the contract. Instead they might let him race anyway, not at Vauxhall, but at their brothercompany Chevrolet. If any of their drivers have an ending contract, Gio would be as good (Menu and Huff) or better (Larini) as the one leaving. Offcourse the viability of this route depends on the contract of at least 1 of the current Chevy-drives ending.
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Old 20 Aug 2009, 07:37 (Ref:2524842)   #31
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Let me do some thinking here: Giovanardi has a contract with Vauxhall. If Vauxhall does not race next year, they have to pay Gio his salary anyway, or a fee to get out of the contract. Instead they might let him race anyway, not at Vauxhall, but at their brothercompany Chevrolet
Depends on Gio's contract and when it was up for renewal.

Vauxhall and Chevrolet may be part of the same parent group but there's little or no contact between the two. If Gio's contract had been with the parent GM group then what you are suggesting could be possible, but even then I very much doubt it.
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Old 20 Aug 2009, 08:57 (Ref:2524883)   #32
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As redshoes said, Giovanardi's contract is going to expire right at the end of this season. Here you can find the interview taken from our last conversation. He clearly states 'I had a contract with Vaxhall and they're withdrawing at the end of the season'. I would be more than happy to see him in a Chevy, it'd be a dream to finally see him compete against Priaulx, Yvan Muller and all the other great drivers (in the same team as Rob Huff!) but I honestly think it's a bit unlikely, unfortunately...
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Old 20 Aug 2009, 08:58 (Ref:2524885)   #33
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From reading Helterskelters post I assumed that Gio has an ongoing contract. I don't know exactly how the contact is between Vauxhall and Chevy, but if he is any good, Giovanardi's manager should be able to bring the right men at the same table.

Edit: ah, I see he has not got a contract. Well, he is a good catch for any touringcarteam, but he probably has his price. But my hypothetical story is not valid.
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Old 20 Aug 2009, 20:26 (Ref:2525206)   #34
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touringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Interesting to see the story in Autosport today that some teams are wishing to use NGTC spec engines next year a year ahead of schedule. For £25,000 per year you get the lease of an engine through TOCA. Autosport says they believe there have been 15 applications already. Thats almost the whole grid!
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Old 20 Aug 2009, 20:35 (Ref:2525212)   #35
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Autosport says they believe there have been 15 applications already.
I read that as being 15 applicants for the contract to design/build/supply the engine
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Old 20 Aug 2009, 20:42 (Ref:2525215)   #36
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My bad on that.

Should get them built by Cosworth, that would generate a bit of interest..
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Old 20 Aug 2009, 21:06 (Ref:2525223)   #37
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I think Cosworth will be busy with all these customer F1 engines!

Sodemo perhaps? Given that their VXR deal is at an end and they have a good rep in the BTCC with first Renault, then Vauxhall.
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Old 20 Aug 2009, 22:11 (Ref:2525245)   #38
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I read that as being 15 applicants for the contract to design/build/supply the engine
As usual Redshoes, correct. Some interesting names in the bunch!
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Old 20 Aug 2009, 22:31 (Ref:2525251)   #39
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Could you please name some of the applicants? I don't have any chance of reading Autosport!
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Old 21 Aug 2009, 07:31 (Ref:2525372)   #40
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Autosport doesn't say who they are, just that there are 15 of them.
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Old 21 Aug 2009, 10:19 (Ref:2525460)   #41
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With Vauxhall (and therefore General Motors) pulling the plug it would be silly and nasty towards 888 if they (GM) supported Ray Mallock Limited in the Btcc.
Stranger things have happened. In STCC eg VAG pulled the plug on KMS Audi (5 times STCC champs) before 2008 season and came back with another team 2009 pushing VW-biogas. That can't even be blamed on the world economical issues, just pure marketing strategy.
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Old 21 Aug 2009, 16:30 (Ref:2525637)   #42
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I read that as being 15 applicants for the contract to design/build/supply the engine
Realistically, I'd add Judd and Neil Brown to the list of other possibles that others have mentioned (Sodemo, Cossie etc..)
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Old 21 Aug 2009, 22:14 (Ref:2525771)   #43
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Stranger things have happened. In STCC eg VAG pulled the plug on KMS Audi (5 times STCC champs) before 2008 season and came back with another team 2009 pushing VW-biogas. That can't even be blamed on the world economical issues, just pure marketing strategy.
There must have been some technical reason, probably the fact that the other team had some experience with biogas or that they had already designed an engine using that technology, and they found it useless to pay KMS to develop an engine that another team had already developed (just the first thing I can think of, though).
With GM, the situation is quite different. Vauxhall have pulled the plug because, as Fabrizio says in the interview I linked above, it's more urgent to save a few thousand workers than keep on racing. We're in a situation in which nobody knows if Chevy is going to continue in the World Touring Car Championship, Vauxhall has retired after winning so many titles and RML is running a car that Chevrolet doesn't want to promote anymore, as a privateer effort.
The only situation I'd find reasonable is if Chevy pulls out of the Wtcc and joins the Btcc with the Cruzes, keeping Huffy in and possibly hiring Fabrizio and some paying driver to fill the 3rd vacant seat. That would be an intelligent move, that would make sense, as the Cruze is newer than the Vectra and the Btcc is much cheaper than the World championship. Like that, RML can keep a lot of workers and GM spends less and has more exposure in the UK, as I seem to understand that the Btcc is much more popular than the Wtcc in GB!
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Old 21 Aug 2009, 23:06 (Ref:2525791)   #44
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Another thought about GM is that they are in the process of selling Vauxhall off, while trying to establish Chevrolet in Europe. Perhaps they were trying to promote Chevy as a more sporty brand. I really can't see GM coming into the BTCC in any way. I think all we can hope for is companies taking Sunshine.co.uk and Silverlines lead and backing teams, I see next year as being a totally independent grid.
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Old 22 Aug 2009, 00:33 (Ref:2525818)   #45
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I see next year as being a totally independent grid.
Yeah, me too... And I hope Fabrizio is in, somehow, or it'll be a huge loss of talent for the series. I really can't wait till the NGTCs come in, to see the different cars from different manufacturers fighting against each other. It's going to be a dream come true!
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Old 22 Aug 2009, 08:23 (Ref:2525957)   #46
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I also don't see a full works deal with Chevy in BTCC nor do I think Volvo will come in as a works entry. I do however see RML establishing a programme in BTCC long term as an ideal ground for moving on their ex WTCC cars with the deal including support from them as per this year.

Should Plato not move to WTCC next year with RML then I see him and Jackson being with RML/Chevy again next year.

888 I see buying the Vectras and running them but only 2 cars entered.
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Old 22 Aug 2009, 08:57 (Ref:2525972)   #47
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Plato's said before he doesn't want to do the WTCC as it means a lot of time away from home from his family and it would also get in the way of his TV work (which I guess he see's as long term for him)
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Old 22 Aug 2009, 08:59 (Ref:2525975)   #48
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I don't see Chevrolet joining the BTCC, from a marketing point of view it makes no sense for them to do so. The programme is paid for by Chevrolet Europe, which despite the name is a Far Eastern brand (Daewoo re-badged). They are more interested in getting the brand know internationally than concentrating on the UK market.

Likewise I see no reason why Plato and/or Jackson would become Chevy WTCC drivers next year. They aren't driving for Chevrolet, they are paying RML to run the cars for them. At the start of the season RML and Chevrolet made it very clear that whatever deal RML had done locally was in no way connected with the works WTCC programme.
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Old 22 Aug 2009, 10:15 (Ref:2526005)   #49
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I don't see Chevrolet joining the BTCC, from a marketing point of view it makes no sense for them to do so. The programme is paid for by Chevrolet Europe, which despite the name is a Far Eastern brand (Daewoo re-badged). They are more interested in getting the brand know internationally than concentrating on the UK market.
Agree for the most part - but with Vauxhall out of the picture, GM now only have Chevrolet in the UK market. They're likely to want to do something to try and get that brand a bit stronger somehow - though that may or may not be the BTCC.

The best thing would be an F1 team of course, but probably way out of budget.

The second best thing would be to get their car off the 'reasonably priced car' segment on Top Gear if they want the Cruze taken seriously!
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Old 22 Aug 2009, 10:24 (Ref:2526013)   #50
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I see no reason why Plato and/or Jackson would become Chevy WTCC drivers next year. They aren't driving for Chevrolet, they are paying RML to run the cars for them. At the start of the season RML and Chevrolet made it very clear that whatever deal RML had done locally was in no way connected with the works WTCC programme.
I agree with you about Chevy not joining the Btcc. While the Btcc and the Wtcc programs are unrelated, if Chevy should ever choose a replacement to their current drivers, in theory Jason Plato and Mat Jackson would be the first choices because of their relationship with RML.
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