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Old 12 Mar 2019, 06:56 (Ref:3889817)   #3401
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>>>>ACTUAL RESULT

1. Hamilton – 98 points

2. Massa – 97 points

RESULT WITH POINTS FOR FASTEST LAP

1. Massa – 100 points (three fastest laps)

2. Hamilton – 99 points (one fastest lap)


You say that, but you race to the rules. If fastest lap doesn't matter then you don't care about it. If there were a point on offer don't you think Hamilton would have made sure he got it?

Hahaha snap! Sorry for the double post there we must have hit send at the same time

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Old 12 Mar 2019, 20:36 (Ref:3889973)   #3402
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I think it wouldn’t have made much difference, both were in the title fight due to circumstances
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Old 13 Mar 2019, 00:07 (Ref:3890023)   #3403
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100 points. That’s four race wins now.
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Old 16 Mar 2019, 00:41 (Ref:3890891)   #3404
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DDay for the 2021 regulations is apparently 30 June 2019.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/02/27/...plan-for-2021/
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Old 17 Mar 2019, 09:52 (Ref:3891299)   #3405
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DDay for the 2021 regulations is apparently 30 June 2019.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/02/27/...plan-for-2021/
I would be surprised if it happens on that day as there are too many vested interests pushing for their own set of regulations to suit themselves. Every time a deadline for a rule change has been announced it has never happened and after that substantially changed when a decision has been announced. The promoters ought to make the rules and if a team does not like it they can voice their opinion and just get on with it. I can't recall in years gone by when major changes were made such as the previous turbo era that anyone raised a fuss and there were some huge changes made in decades past.
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Old 19 Mar 2019, 01:08 (Ref:3891740)   #3406
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I like the point for fastest lap, but don't see why it should be restricted to the top ten finishers. Why not give something else to compete for to those outside the top ten? If you're fastest, you're fastest.
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Old 19 Mar 2019, 01:27 (Ref:3891754)   #3407
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I think it’s the right move and it’s right to keep it in the top ten. Otherwise those at the back will just go on glory runs till the end
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Old 19 Mar 2019, 01:31 (Ref:3891757)   #3408
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I like the point for fastest lap, but don't see why it should be restricted to the top ten finishers. Why not give something else to compete for to those outside the top ten? If you're fastest, you're fastest.
It would be a bit daft if a driver, outside the top ten finishers, got the fastest lap but was denied it because they weren't one of the top ten finishers.
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Old 19 Mar 2019, 01:42 (Ref:3891762)   #3409
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As I understand it the point isn't awarded at all if the fastest laptime is set by a car outside the top 10.

It brings "B" teams into the equation, for example... an Alfa outside the points pits for new tyres and sets a time to ensure that Mercedes can't get it. Or likewise Mercedes get on the phone to Racing point for them to take a pitstop and try to get the fastest lap off Ferrari.
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Old 19 Mar 2019, 01:58 (Ref:3891767)   #3410
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As I understand it the point isn't awarded at all if the fastest laptime is set by a car outside the top 10.

It brings "B" teams into the equation, for example... an Alfa outside the points pits for new tyres and sets a time to ensure that Mercedes can't get it. Or likewise Mercedes get on the phone to Racing point for them to take a pitstop and try to get the fastest lap off Ferrari.
I think that the FL point should only be for the driver as well.

I was thinking about a possible scenario similar to this.

Abu Dhabi, Vettel is leading Hamilton by 25pts.
Hamilton needs a win + FL to take the title.

Vettel hits trouble, is trundling around in 12th, way off the points, Hamilton leads, with the fastest lap. 10 laps remain.

Vettel pits to go for the fastest lap, twice, having brought extra softs for the weekend to prepare for this exact scenario.

Vettel gets the fastest lap and wins the title, by denying Hamilton the extra point.
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Old 19 Mar 2019, 01:59 (Ref:3891768)   #3411
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As I understand it the point isn't awarded at all if the fastest laptime is set by a car outside the top 10.

It brings "B" teams into the equation, for example... an Alfa outside the points pits for new tyres and sets a time to ensure that Mercedes can't get it. Or likewise Mercedes get on the phone to Racing point for them to take a pitstop and try to get the fastest lap off Ferrari.
Neither the Alfa scenario or the Mercedes scenario is a given. It's
just another example of F1 over complicating something.
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Old 19 Mar 2019, 11:19 (Ref:3891814)   #3412
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So the 2019 aero changes amounted to nothing then? I watched the first 12 laps of the race and I saw no revolution in terms of how close the cars could follow.
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Old 19 Mar 2019, 14:54 (Ref:3891853)   #3413
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there were some moments where it did seem that more close following was happening but was that down to the track, the DRS zones, the general tightness of the mid field?

more curious for me was Gasly in his RBR on the soft tires stuck behind Kvyat's STR on the hard tires (they said about a 1.5s speed difference between compounds).

on one hand Gasly easily should have had a speed advantage from the tires to effect a pass with but could not ((although Kvyat was driving like a man possessed)

on the other hand, the fact that Gasly was able to stay behind Kvyat for so long without losing his tires was encouraging (actually there were a few trains with close racing over an extended number of laps). so perhaps the new front wing and airflow is alleviating some of the dirty air problems.

i doubt its going to be a revolution but imo still too early tell if the changes were ineffective.
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Old 19 Mar 2019, 15:46 (Ref:3891863)   #3414
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Albert Park is always hard to gauge aero changes. To my untrained eye, it looked like they could stay a bit closer, but there wasn't long enough straights to then capitalise on it... even with Barn-door DRS.

I think Bahrain and China will really show whether there is a difference to previous years.
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Old 19 Mar 2019, 22:08 (Ref:3891923)   #3415
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Well overtaking can happen there and it was good to see cars running closer. But please, no more DRS!

I hope we get decent action in Bahrain and China, but anything could happen there
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Old 20 Mar 2019, 09:40 (Ref:3892055)   #3416
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Look back to something like 1990 or 1993 and see how close cars can follow one another in fast corners. I know i'm referencing years where people were already bemoaning the aero influence on racing, however this problem has only gotten worse and worse as the years have gone on.
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Old 20 Mar 2019, 11:28 (Ref:3892076)   #3417
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Well in those days Aero wasn't so important, but it could be better now. It's gone too far now
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Old 20 Mar 2019, 17:02 (Ref:3892189)   #3418
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Aero was very minimal then, and now it’s too much. It needs to be reduced again
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Old 21 Mar 2019, 00:57 (Ref:3892346)   #3419
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To me there seemed to be very little difference, most of it was because of more effective DRS I reckon.
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Old 21 Mar 2019, 22:45 (Ref:3892569)   #3420
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Well cars could follow closer. However DRS must go
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Old 26 Mar 2019, 19:54 (Ref:3893546)   #3421
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a budget cap, 220mil for 2020 gradually reducing to 135mil by 2023 with some notable exemptions from the cap, more spec parts, reduction of special payments to Ferrari, more equal distribution of prize money, bonus payments for engine manus so they can sell engines at a fixed price.

if true this seems way to good to be true!!!

no doubt much will change as details are finalized (or if they are even agreed upon in the first place) but as a guiding principle at which to aim for this is a huge win for fans imo.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/joesaward/id/00477
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Old 26 Mar 2019, 20:23 (Ref:3893548)   #3422
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I still don't see how for multinational companies budgets can be so closely policed. I would be so easy for work to be done for F1 under a another heading in the accounts book.
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Old 26 Mar 2019, 22:26 (Ref:3893564)   #3423
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I like it! Best news I have heard in a long time!

The only thing that concerns me is the attempt to fund it 100% via revenue sharing. Seems like a fine idea, but it requires increasing revenue quite a bit and that is never easy.

As to the potential for cheating on the caps? What is new here. The sport exists as a series of rules, enforcement and punishment today. This will be no different. Teams will push the boundaries, rules will be clarified and changed as they go and teams will be caught and punished. Will it be 100% effective? Of course not, but it doesn’t need to be. It just needs to work well enough.

The devil is in the details. Hopefully this will come to be and the teams can agree to this on principle.

Richard

PS: As to teams fudging the books to hide stuff. That may create more than problems with cap enforcement, but that might be criminal behavior. Who is going to risk jail time to hide F1 costs?
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Old 27 Mar 2019, 01:34 (Ref:3893585)   #3424
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I wasn't thinking of legal accountancy, as all work would be covered by the company finances.
It's more a question of where the truth lies when ...

"that Squillion Dollars was spent on developing the new carbon fibre weave for our new super-dooper-hyper-wizzo road car that we are developing for 10 years from now ... no of course that technology isn't being used to reduce the weight of next years F1 car"
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Old 27 Mar 2019, 12:56 (Ref:3893719)   #3425
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I wasn't thinking of legal accountancy, as all work would be covered by the company finances.
It's more a question of where the truth lies when ...

"that Squillion Dollars was spent on developing the new carbon fibre weave for our new super-dooper-hyper-wizzo road car that we are developing for 10 years from now ... no of course that technology isn't being used to reduce the weight of next years F1 car"
That will exist. The largest area IMHO for abuse is on the power unit side. And reading between the lines the proposal is trying to mitigate that by providing extra income for that (incentive to not hide costs) as well as fixing costs for those they supply (incentive to keep cost down, or at least keep them from being deep in the red). Even if this happens, I wonder if it will be a deciding factor. Meaning... can someone really cheat their way to the top and not get caught? Maybe yes, maybe no. But yes there will be some of what you suggest.

And to be frank, if a manufacturer is just good at power units and has depth of knowledge, they can’t help but to use that. That knowledge may still be proprietary and secret, but not necessarily have been generated via nefarious schemings to circumvent cost caps. For example, take Mercedes current knowledge vs. someone new who wants to enter F1 in a cost capped world. Mercedes can’t unlearn what they already know.

I also expect the new regulations to have a simpler, but still high tech, hybrid power unit. So depending upon what those regulations are, we might be in the realm of diminishing returns on expensive power unit development. I love the high tech nature of the current regulations, but the high complexity means few can create competitive examples. I would sadly welcome a simpler spec that expands the list of potential suppliers.

As important as power unit development is, I am personally more concerned about the health, viability and competitiveness of the teams that are not owned or tied directly to a manufacturer. I hope these proposed caps helps more in those areas. Costs on chassis and aero development.

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