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Old 28 Jan 2003, 14:20 (Ref:488362)   #1
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Ouch!

I don't know if anyone remembers me talking here last year about the problems we had at Mondello with Karts after a temporary chicane was put in.

One of the injured karters now has photos up on his website - including pics of the chicane and his incident.

I would be interested in any feedback from those of you with karting experience.

http://www.johnniemcgeeracing.homestead.com/

Last edited by EvilPumpkin; 28 Jan 2003 at 14:21.
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Old 28 Jan 2003, 16:55 (Ref:488483)   #2
Steve Tarrant
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If you're referring to the shape and size of the chicane, I'd have to say it's pretty generous. I've seen chicances a lot tighter than that, and therefore the speeds into and out of them have been slower.

Can only assume he had his foot in because of its open nature, and lost it against it somehow.
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Old 28 Jan 2003, 20:28 (Ref:488655)   #3
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I'd go along with Steves comments we run used to run two chicanes at one of our club days on a big track to let the juniors race and they were considerably tighter than that.

In the full story the comment is made that while two karts could go in side by side only one could come out,so why would you try a pass in that area.

The chicanes we built though were normally only single layer of tyres/cones or cardbord boxes and not high,so if it turned to custard you could normaly bulldoze your way through.
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Old 28 Jan 2003, 23:22 (Ref:488831)   #4
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Well after this incident, it was decided to put a steady yellow out at the corner prior to the chicane and heavily penalise anyone who attempted to overtake.

This did not stop a second very serious incident taking place between 2 karts 3 races later.....
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Old 29 Jan 2003, 07:58 (Ref:489108)   #5
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I'm a little worried by the steady yellow flag given the normal use of yellows at any race meeting. Wouldn't it be better to get the Clerk of the Course to talk to the drivers in advance, warning them of the problem and explaining the dangers of the chicane? The drivers must know the circuit in advance and realise the implications of overtaking in dangerous places.
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Old 29 Jan 2003, 08:48 (Ref:489129)   #6
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That was done as well Steve. In fact after the first incident, there was an hour long meeting between race officials and representatives of the karting club in question. All karters and karter reps (parents!) attended this. All decided to race. Whilst I was not at the briefing (they left us on post for the hour they were having their meeting) it is my understanding that all drivers were fully briefed on the agreed protocol for this corner prior to racing resuming.

We were all concerned about the use of a yellow on that corner for the usual reason - how on earth do you let the drivers know if/when there is an actual incident and they need to take avoiding action.

I wasn't on the post in question, but I counted 4 reports on the radio of overtaking under yellows in the 2 races preceding the 2nd incident - there may have been more.

I don't want to get into the political ins and outs of this situation as a) it would take too long to explain b) I'm only party to 2nd hand info for most of it and c) I don't want to leave myself open to accusations in a very volatile situation.

What I really need is feedback on the actual configuration of the chicane and how it compares with chicanes in the UK - I've already had some great feedback, but would love to get much more if possible.

The impression I'm getting at the moment is that if you're going to build a chicane, you do NOT make it wide enough for more than one vehicle. Since this is a very sharp corner, can anyone give me an indication of where they would start a single lane chicane in this area? I would have thought it would have to start before the corner? The big problems we've always had with the "big" corners at Mondello is that the karts will go in 3 by 3 and then discover that you can only get 2 out the other side (this was prior to chicane).

Last edited by EvilPumpkin; 29 Jan 2003 at 08:49.
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Old 29 Jan 2003, 12:30 (Ref:489347)   #7
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The problem you always have with circuit design, for whatever type of racing you have going, is that however much room you give them, they always want more!!!!!

All any circuit designer can do is built layouts that aren't a danger in themselves, ie contributing to the danger issue. But by the fact you are introducing an obstruction into the course is itself adding to the danger factor. So a difficult compromise, especially when you are adapting a course built for another primary purpose.

When we run long circuit karts for the British Kart GP at Pembrey, we run the circuit in exactly the same configuration as the cars use, so therefore there's plenty of space for numerous different lines around the corners, and it's wide enough that if someone loses control, then there's space for them to have their accident without remaining on the middle of the circuit to cause another one.

Kart racers do, in general, stick themselves into positions other formula wouldn't because of the small footprint of the vehicle and the fact that the relative performance difference between karts is very small. Therefore a forceful driver can make the difference by intimidating his opponent until he backs off. BUT ...... by doing so he is compromising his safety, and therefore eventually he'll meet someone who won't be intimidated and is no one backs off ................ the inevidable crash occurs!

I know, I've witnessed and dealt with this scenario many times as a Clerk!!!!!!
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Old 29 Jan 2003, 12:49 (Ref:489363)   #8
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Thanks for the input Steve - I've sent you a PM on this
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Old 29 Jan 2003, 18:15 (Ref:489703)   #9
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While i respect the points made and agree with them, i just don't like the look of that chicane, it looks to tempting to try and straightline at a high speed leading to these types of results, if something had to be done to slow the karts i can see a larger (not neccasarily more open though) chicane being used to make sure that they have to slow and turn
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Old 30 Jan 2003, 00:45 (Ref:490069)   #10
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Do you know if they will be racing their again and if they do will they run the chichane?

you could build it to allow two or more karts through at the same time without it allowing them to straightline it but however many you design it for someone will always try to fit where there isn't room.
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Old 30 Jan 2003, 02:02 (Ref:490113)   #11
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Well they have Mondello dates on their calendar - whether there will be a chicane or not remains to be seen - one of the reasons I'm looking for input!
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Old 30 Jan 2003, 04:23 (Ref:490178)   #12
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Well personally I would be arguing against it,using last year as an example they put a chicane in and there were several incidents at the chicane.

Now you need to ask would these incidents have taken place if it wasn't there,and I would say probably not,as it is very unusual for people to come together in a straight line.

However you then have a higher exit speed off the straight and into the next braking area,have you just transferred the problem to a different area of the track?
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