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Old 16 Feb 2004, 22:56 (Ref:876311)   #1
Cadete
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Push-rods, small block, big block, HDOC, and all about engines....

I'm searching for some informartion about engines. I think I can fairly look at a car's body and say how it affects airflow (not as good as many around here, but I try ), but my knowledge of how an engine works is a bit lower than I would like it to be...

For example, I don't quite understand the terms that I put in the title of this thread. I know the basics of an engine: the air/fuel misture enters the cylinder throught the valves, the piston goes up and downs, the "vilebrequin" (French term, don't know it in English) turns and passes that movement to the "veio de transmissão" (Portuguese term, don't know it in English). But I could use some good information, I don't want you to take the time to write an essay here, but maybe you could point me to some websites related to this subject.

Another doubt that I have is the "differential autobloquant" (french, dunno the english name, in Portuguese we call it "diferencial autobloquante"). I think it is something that locks the inside and outside wheel when under acelaration, but I can be wrong...

Thanks in advance,
Filipe Cadete
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 00:42 (Ref:876427)   #2
skycafe
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Hey Cadete, try the following and see if it helps

www.autoshop-online.com/auto101/engtext.html

Sorry, I don't know how to make it an active link thing. Also, couldn't find anything illustrated.

As to a 'differential autobloquant,' this must refer to the differential in the rear end (between the rear wheels) that allows them to operate at different speeds when rounding a corner.

Small block/big block has only ever been used in reference to American engines, and I belive dividing line is about 400 cubic inches and higher for a 'big block,' but Tim Northcut and Noise Boy are better sources then me on that.
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 00:46 (Ref:876430)   #3
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Filipe:
This site: http://techni.tachemie.uni-leipzig.d...to_g0_eng.html along with the links that site lists (one of which is a engine cycle animation, I tried it) should help you.
I have a multilingual automotive dictionary but do not know where I left it so I cannot translate your terms.
Good luck.
Bob
PS-The american terms small and big block, generally refer to (if a company offers more than one size of engine) the size and weight of the bare engine block.
Some small-blocks can be taken out to 450 plus inches but the bare block still weighs less and is smaller than a similar size big-block, which often can to taken out to 500 plus inches in size.(Some are now capable of sizes in the 700-800 inch range. This is causing some after-market engine builders to offer new versions of engines that are out-of-production by the original manufacturer(i.e. Pontiac Oldsmobile and others) so they can still compete with current Chevrolet and Ford products)
The only European company that I know that ever offered two block sizes was Daimler Benz. THeir "big-block" 6.9 liter engine was capable of 500 plus inches if bored and stroked to maximum limits.

Last edited by Bob Riebe; 17 Feb 2004 at 00:53.
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 00:50 (Ref:876433)   #4
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Or Bob Riebe would be a good source! Great site!

You would know about the big blocks from Greenwood days.

People think a Panoz is thunder, go see a Greenwood Corvette in vintage somewhere!
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 00:55 (Ref:876438)   #5
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Re: Push-rods, small block, big block, HDOC, and all about engines....

This site should provide answers to many of your quetions. It is in English only:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/channe...under-the-hood

For engines this link:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm

For answers about camshafts, push rod, DOHC:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft.htm

This link explains about differentials. I think the english term for "diferencial autobloquante" might be "limited slip differencial":

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm

I hope these help.
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 12:12 (Ref:876874)   #6
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Thanks for all the links

this should keep me busy whille I read it, understand new things and slap my head when I see that somethings that were confusing me were just problems related to translations from French or Portuguese to English (DHOC, for example )
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 16:15 (Ref:877127)   #7
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Tim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
These links are solid....

Also, if you have a particular interest in specific engines, just do a search engine "advanced search" on the specific race engine you want to know more about and you'd be amazed at what will pop up...

I found out quite a few things about the 4.0 L and the 3.5 L Aurora
V-8 that powered Indy Cars until a couple of years ago that gave me excellent info on how to increase the torque in that powerplant....

It also noted that the first R&S MkIIIA had that engine in it and won both Daytona and Sebring with it...
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 16:33 (Ref:877152)   #8
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KC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
vilebrequin: according to altavista babelfish: crankshaft. This is the long casting, forging or billet machined component in the lower end of the engine that the connecting rods are attached to.

Push-rods: Long rods that actuate the valve in a camshaft-in-block engine. In most older American V8 motors, the cam shaft resides within the engine block just above the crankshaft. Long hollow, oil-bearing rods are used to reach from the camshaft through the engine head to rocker arms that in turn actuate the valves.

small block: a small block engine is typically referring to smaller displacement American V8 push rod engines ranging from 265 cubic inches (4.3 liters) to just over 350 cubic inches (5.7 liters). There have been a few 400 cubic inch (6.0 liter) small block engines.

Big Block: a big block engine is typically referring to larger displacement American V8 push rod engines ranging from 390 cubic inches (6.0 liters) to beyond 600+ cubic inches (1000+ liters).

DOHC: refers to a Dual Over Head Cam. Where the two cam reside in the engine head(s) and actuate the valve in a mroe direct fashion and typically without pushrods. Some engines use a SOHC, or Single Over Head Cam setup operating in a similar fashion to the DOHC.
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 16:52 (Ref:877180)   #9
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1000 liters, WOW, that would be over 61,000 inches cubed! I would love to see that run at Daytona!!!
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 19:50 (Ref:877455)   #10
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Tim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quick note:

one Liter equals about 61 cubic inches...

Thus a 6.0 L engine is about 365 or 366 cubic inches of displacement...

390 cu. in. is closer to a 6.4 or 6.5 L displacement....

Most of the Ford-derived 6.0 L sportscar engines are based from the 351 cu. in. Windsor....

Thanks for the explanation post for us, KC....Those terms (especially for small block vs. big block) were pretty much my understanding of the terms and their usage....
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 20:10 (Ref:877482)   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
It also noted that the first R&S MkIIIA had that engine in it and won both Daytona and Sebring with it...
I was lucky enough to hear that engine at LeMans in 1996 . It was a shame that they canned it . It was beautiful .

Last edited by The Badger; 17 Feb 2004 at 20:10.
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 20:27 (Ref:877505)   #12
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1 liter equal 61.0237441 inches cubed.
The 390 or 6.5 liter engine does seem to be the magical number which often has been the dividing line between big and small blocks as not often have big-block engines dropped below this number.
There is a medium or mid-size block term sometimes used in the past, this term can be confusing and it is usually best to ask what parent the block was developed from.
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 20:46 (Ref:877531)   #13
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Tim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
That is usually what I ask as well, Bob Riebe....

I believe that the Chevy 396 was small block based, but the 409 was derived from a big block truck engine, as an example....correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that is true...

To further carry out this scenario, when people discuss the Ford Modular 5.4 L DOHC engine, everything I have read has told me that this engine's roots is a large-dimensioned block that is almost the same dimensions as the Ford 427 Cobra Jet....definitely a big block..

compare that to the 351 Windsor that is the genesis for the 6.0 L engines that power LMP1s today.....in my book, a small-block engine...

Displacement can be related to block size, but not necessarily so...

Thus, asking about the roots of the block is the best way to define what is a "small block" or a "big block" engine...regardless of displacement...
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 20:51 (Ref:877538)   #14
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Felipe:
Check these out. The second is a topic posting from the list of the first.

http://www.automotiveforums.com?f1180.html
http://www.automotiveforums.com/t124828.html
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 21:05 (Ref:877560)   #15
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Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
That is usually what I ask as well, Bob Riebe....

I believe that the Chevy 396 was small block based, but the 409 was derived from a big block truck engine, as an example....correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that is true...

To further carry out this scenario, when people discuss the Ford Modular 5.4 L DOHC engine, everything I have read has told me that this engine's roots is a large-dimensioned block that is almost the same dimensions as the Ford 427 Cobra Jet....definitely a big block..

compare that to the 351 Windsor that is the genesis for the 6.0 L engines that power LMP1s today.....in my book, a small-block engine...

Displacement can be related to block size, but not necessarily so...

Thus, asking about the roots of the block is the best way to define what is a "small block" or a "big block" engine...regardless of displacement...
The 396 was a "big-block" engine but there also was a 366 truck version of this same engine, which most people do not know about. These are all big-block engine.
The 409 was a big-block truck engine whereas the 348 was the small-block truck engine of the w-engine series.(These had different cylinder-head to block setup than most engines nowadays.(Lincoln and Mercury had a similar design engine that was never used in any "Ford" car)

The new modular engine is as bulky as a 429 Boss engine because of the bulk of the cam boxes and it has a
bare-block that is apprx. 75 lbs. +or- 25, heavier than the old 302 block. Too much size and weight for so little displacement.(Plus it is handi-capped by being a long stroke design in all except very small sizes.
I have a sheet with some engine weights at home but unfortunately the chart does not separate bare-block from partial or complete engine weights, so one may see a single engine with three or four conflicting weights.

The one site I posted lastly, gives a littel background into the block-journal sizes also causing the determination of whether or not it is a small or big block.
Bob
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 21:30 (Ref:877600)   #16
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I thought the 396 was originally conceived from the block that was used for the 350???

Thanks for correcting me....

Question:

Since 390 is the "Magical Number," did Ford build that as a separate "Big Block" or was it derived from smaller blocks that Ford built in the early-mid 1960s?

Just curious....

Thanks!
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 21:32 (Ref:877608)   #17
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Sorry...I was thinking of the 400, and not the 396...

Sorry for creating the confusion...I get brain dead about this time of day...
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 21:40 (Ref:877621)   #18
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Just read the links you posted above, Bob Riebe....

Excellent hook up....

and it also explained to me where the 390 Ford originated....but like the last guy who posted in that link, the Ford lines are not as easy to trace...

also interesting notes on the Pontiacs as well....thus your advice on the origin of the block (from what block it is derived or built from0 is really the best way to tell...
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Old 17 Feb 2004, 22:14 (Ref:877657)   #19
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KC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
There are literally thousands of combinations that can be made from small blocks. Less so for most big blocks, however the old Chevy 454 four bolt main has been modded to all kinds. We run a Chevy 502 four bolt main truck motor in the boat, but it has been bored and stroked to 540. It also has 13.7:1 forged pistons. Its pretty amazing to drop the hammer on 8.8 liters. The 502 is getting some love lately as its getting popular for hot rods and in motorsports that rely on stump pulling torque and a huge fat horsepower band.
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Old 18 Feb 2004, 15:05 (Ref:878371)   #20
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You'e a wild man to roll across the water in a 540 cu. in. - powered boat, KC!!!!


Bet it is a wild ride.....and that the nose of that boat points high in the sky when you do "Drop the Hammer" on that bad boy...
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Old 18 Feb 2004, 18:18 (Ref:878522)   #21
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It can get pretty wild. Last year we ran the motor in a jet boat, btu this year its going into a Hondo flat bottom. We'r eexpecting to advance up two classes. Should run the quarter in around 9 seconds and abotu 105 mph.
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Old 18 Feb 2004, 18:38 (Ref:878546)   #22
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Well now, how the heck do you catch fish in that rig?
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Old 19 Feb 2004, 14:05 (Ref:879384)   #23
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Not really good for fishing, the lake warden does not seem to appreciate a big block motor running open zoomie headers. The noise from the engine tends to scare away all the fish.

We race the boat in the Southern Drag Boat Association and International Hot Boat Association races in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Arkansas. Its a lot of work, but it does feel good to build your own motor and go out an dbeat guys who have their engines professionally built. In the last two years we have had one win, three seconds, and two thirds.
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Old 19 Feb 2004, 17:35 (Ref:879529)   #24
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KC:
Soime people used to run the Arias hemi, Chevy based block, in the drag boat races. Does anyone still run them?(I cannot remember who took up prod. after Arias sold the rights).
Arias had both the normal push-rod hemi and the quad-cam engine. Does anyone still run the quad-cam version?
Last time I saw one was abut 7-8 years ago, a gent. used both types in a speed-record snowmobile.
Outside of Chevy,Ford and of course the Dodge Hemi, are there any odd brands that show up at the races?
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Old 19 Feb 2004, 21:17 (Ref:879782)   #25
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KC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
In the Top Alcohol Hydro and Top Alcohol Flat almost all the engines run either Arias, Stage IV, or Brad Anderson Engineering heads on heavily modified production based Chevy 454 or Ford 460 blocks. When you get to Top Fuel Hydros the powerplants tend to use Keith Black or Janke or other dedicated drag motors.

About the only odd ball powerplant I have seen is one powering the Fair Warning Top Fuel Hydro. The use a dual turbocharged Ford fuel motor. The inlet for the turbos is about 6 inches in diameter. Sounds really weird compared to other supercharger big blocks.

There is a guy here in Tulsa that runs an old Ford SVT skunkworks DOHC big block in a Mustang II. Awesome looking engine. Most people don't even notice the odd shaped heads at first glance. No telling where he got the engine and how he got Ford to let go of it.
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