Bernie Ecclestone indicted

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by wnut

How many members rubbishing Bernie have paid traffic and speeding fines that they knew they were not guilty of, merely because fighting said fine was not worth the hassle or expense of going to court and banging your head against city hall?

I have twice fought cases and been proved innocent regarding traffic offences, one of them I was awarded £500 costs, so if you can be bothered it can work
On the other hand this has been wiped out by 16 convictions for speeding

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by bella

in the end bernie is no more corrupt than say, a contractor offering to do some work for the buyer personally free of charge to secure a contract. it's not life or death stuff. yeah, it's not exactly morally upstanding, but if you thing you can run a morally secure business anywhere, especially in motorsport then life's going to be a bit hard for you.

sadly.

Quite right bella, I happen to know a few "serious money"people who have admitted to me that without crossing somebodies palm with silver (read large envelope) they couldn't carry on with their lifestyle !

[Kempi]

For the questions of how that could happen and is it only available to the rich:

The case was closed on the basis of Sect 153a German Code of Criminal Procedure (StPO). This provision allows for the public prosecturor, the court and the defendant to agree on a closing of investigations if the evidence is unclear, it seems unreasonable or impossible to find further evidence in either way and the offense is of a minor nature. The provision is widely used in particular in small cases, petty crime if you want. It was introduced to lighten the load the courts have to handle.

Usually it is applied before the case even reaches the court and I remember press reports on the defense attorneys trying to strike an understanding at an early stage, unsuccessfully. It is unusual, but not uncommon, to apply it during the court proceedings.

The big question is: was it a minor offense? But as all parties agreed, noone will challenge and that is that.

And by the way: the money is not going to the BayernLB. Such payments are usually distributed between organizations that cater to the poor, financially or socially, elderly people and so on. So something good will come out of the money. Looking from it results wise, BCE would probably have gotten out of jail quite quickly due to his age, so this seems to be more useful.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Kempi

For the questions of how that could happen and is it only available to the rich:

The case was closed on the basis of Sect 153a German Code of Criminal Procedure (StPO). This provision allows for the public prosecturor, the court and the defendant to agree on a closing of investigations if the evidence is unclear, it seems unreasonable or impossible to find further evidence in either way and the offense is of a minor nature. The provision is widely used in particular in small cases, petty crime if you want. It was introduced to lighten the load the courts have to handle.

Usually it is applied before the case even reaches the court and I remember press reports on the defense attorneys trying to strike an understanding at an early stage, unsuccessfully. It is unusual, but not uncommon, to apply it during the court proceedings.


The big question is: was it a minor offense? But as all parties agreed, noone will challenge and that is that.

And by the way: the money is not going to the BayernLB. Such payments are usually distributed between organizations that cater to the poor, financially or socially, elderly people and so on. So something good will come out of the money. Looking from it results wise, BCE would probably have gotten out of jail quite quickly due to his age, so this seems to be more useful.

I read somewhere (can be corrected) that 1 million would go to a children's charity, the rest to the state, (not the bank).

[SidewaysFeltham]

Originally Posted by Casper

You cannot say that with certainty as you or I do not know where it would have gone without BE. Other such as Ron Dennis may have stepped up and changed things but it is all very speculative at best but a great conversation for an internet forum, I might start a thread on it.

Do so: it would be interesting and fun!

[wolfhound]

It seems like Bayern LB do not like Bernie's offer of £20 million to settle their differences. but then in his terms its only small change.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/207473/...rman-bank.html

[VIVA GT]

Oh well, at least all of this too-ing & fro-ing is giving us something to discuss while Formula One is on its summer holiday...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Post the £60m settlement, Ecclestone says he will run F1 for as long as he can, according to this BBC article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28893869

[sparkione]

What a load of boring borrocks. Bottom line is, the odious little shitbag is back in circulation. Requiescat F1.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Post the £60m settlement, Ecclestone says he will run F1 for as long as he can, according to this BBC article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28893869

Can't fault his logic!

"I asked somebody the other day 'have they decided who shot that plane down?' Nobody seems to know do they, so what's the link [with Russia]?
"In England for example, the guns and things that we've been sending to people that have been used, we're responsible? Doesn't sound right does it?
"If I'm in the business of producing knives and somebody buys a knife and stabs somebody, it's a bit difficult to say that because I produced the knife, I'm guilty."

What has happened to the cockpit voice recordings?

I thought that they usually took a week to decipher?

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by wnut

What has happened to the cockpit voice recordings?

I thought that they usually took a week to decipher?

What's a cockpit voice recording going to demonstrate? In the few occasions where there was a pilot talking during a sudden catastrophic event, the recording simply ends mid-sentence, proving nothing except that the crew had no idea something was about to destroy their plane.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by miatanut

What's a cockpit voice recording going to demonstrate? In the few occasions where there was a pilot talking during a sudden catastrophic event, the recording simply ends mid-sentence, proving nothing except that the crew had no idea something was about to destroy their plane.

It would at least support the theory about what happened, it may also confirm that there were other aircraft in the vicinity, it also may confirm something else happened.

Just release it for open scrutiny, why does every blasted thing have to be a secret?

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by wnut

It would at least support the theory about what happened, it may also confirm that there were other aircraft in the vicinity, it also may confirm something else happened.

Just release it for open scrutiny, why does every blasted thing have to be a secret?

Have the recordings ever been released before a few months after an accident?

I think "open scrutiny" just means a bunch of self-appointed experts can use them to advance pretty much any point they want.

It's certainly possible a plane that had several million hours before its first fatal accident suddenly experienced a catastrophic failure over a war zone, but the real work of the investigation is establishing who launched the missile.

[chillibowl]

in another coup Christian Sylt has managed yet another exclusive interview with BE.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...m-9695733.html

among the highlights, a name from his enemies list, the greed of the German prosecutors, and potential buyers for F1 including Disney which seems strange but reminded me of this.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

in another coup Christian Sylt has managed yet another exclusive interview with BE.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...m-9695733.html

among the highlights, a name from his enemies list, the greed of the German prosecutors, and potential buyers for F1 including Disney which seems strange but reminded me of this.

That's an interesting article, with Bernie mentioned on the list of potential buyers and as usual he's playing it very close to his chest.

“Whether I buy back into Formula One depends what sort of situation arises, but it’s not a priority. I’m a bit busy at the moment and have got a lot of catching up to do.”

[wolfhound]

Bernie's back to court again this time in Spain as a witness to do with corruption in Valencia offical circles.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns30269.html

[GT6]

Perhaps the gift of $10m to a no show Manor team could allow him to be prosecuted by F1 itself, some good could then come out of the manor farce

[bjohnsonsmith]

Just when everyone thought it had all gone quiet, Bernie's now faces a £1bn tax bill.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119091

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Just when everyone thought it had all gone quiet, Bernie's now faces a £1bn tax bill.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119091

More troble for him and no doubt CVC will not be impressed.

I have not seen any mention of this from Bernie's favourite 'financial' journalist but does get mentioned by the BBC.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-32837656

[Sodemo]

Why bother, we all know Bernie will win, he always does.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Why bother, we all know Bernie will win, he always does.

Teflon comes to mind.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Just when everyone thought it had all gone quiet, Bernie's now faces a £1bn tax bill.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119091

i seem to recall reading that there was a question of how Bernie was able to pay his fine to the Germans given that all of his money was previously given to his ex wife in the divorce in the form of a family trust. that trust was not taxable at the normal rates provided that Bernie did not exercise any control over that money which he might have had to do to get the money to pay the fine.

i'll see if i can find that article.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i seem to recall reading that there was a question of how Bernie was able to pay his fine to the Germans given that all of his money was previously given to his ex wife in the divorce in the form of a family trust. that trust was not taxable at the normal rates provided that Bernie did not exercise any control over that money which he might have had to do to get the money to pay the fine.

i'll see if i can find that article.

His capital wealth was placed in to the Bambino Trust at the time of his divorce from his former wife. Since that time he has earned many more millions, and it may be that the monies paid into the German court came from that. He could have also asked his ex if she would pay the fine, and I think that she probably would have acceded to his request.

As for the renewed HMRC investigation, this is hardly news. The Revenue re-opened the case over a year ago, but the problem they have is that they will have to prove that BCE exerts control over the Bambino Trust. I think that it is unlikely that BCE will just confess to that, and I would think it almost impossible to believe that he would have been stupid enough to put anything in writing, although I suppose that there is always the possibility that someone recorded a conversation.

[chillibowl]

true he has earned more since then but has he earned enough after tax dollars to pay the fine? probably he has.

im curious to know how the tax authority looks at borrowing money from your ex wifes trust...that very act could be construed as maintaining control?

just speculating, but if she gave him a loan with an above market interest rate to avoid the appearance of impropriety then it would have to be in writing and there would be a schedule of payments which should have been adhered too...and even then if its a loan given without collateral then its still not an arms length transaction.

of course all just mindless speculation on my part...i suppose the larger issue is that BE's name is back in the papers and thats not a good thing for F1/FOM/FIA/CVC.

[Mike Harte]

Sometimes the old adage that all publicity is good publicity is true! I know one chap who was a fairly junior manager in a very large organisation. He happened to befall a number of incidents that kept on bringing him to the attention of his bosses, and to the surprise of all (including him), he kept being promoted, until he eventually became a main board director long before his eventual retirement.