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Old 21 Dec 2015, 12:09 (Ref:3599152)   #751
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It's disgraceful the way the BBC has been treated by both Bernie and the government. It deserved to keep F1 after the brilliant job it did. The people who did it were top notch. Somehow I don't think Channel 4 will be quite the same. Only hope now is BT Sport get it
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 12:31 (Ref:3599155)   #752
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It's disgraceful the way the BBC has been treated by both Bernie and the government. It deserved to keep F1 after the brilliant job it did. The people who did it were top notch. Somehow I don't think Channel 4 will be quite the same. Only hope now is BT Sport get it
BBC was always going to get rid of F1, no matter what happened or how much it cost when management changed hands. There is some sort of fallacy that F1 is not value for money compared to other sports.

Wimbledon
  • Cost - £40m
  • Viewers - 1.6m
  • Cost per head - £25m (!)

F1
  • Cost - £55m
  • Viewers - 4m (per race)
  • Cost per head - £13m per race
  • Cost per head - £760k per season

Numbers from Googling. F1 costs a fraction of the Tennis compared to the actual viewers. Yet Tennis was fine to keep? Could it be that the management of BBC just didn't like F1? Because frankly that's how it looks when you compare it to other sports. I wonder if they're tennis fans...
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 12:50 (Ref:3599161)   #753
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Will Jordan make the cross over? Will Anderson make a return?

I assume they will keep their promises on advert free race coverage.

They should've gone to Ch 4 rather than Sky in the first place.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 12:51 (Ref:3599162)   #754
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Nice maths. I think your wrong by a factor of one million. However that is for both.

You also need to allow for the period - i.e. Wimbledon fortnight. You've attempted for F1, but not the tennis.
I suspect 1.6m is an average game or the highlights package - the finals will be higher. Although there is no google involved in this guess. I wonder if I am nearer despite making this up.

Anyway I came here to say on thing:
Thank heavens it isn't ITV!
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 12:52 (Ref:3599163)   #755
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It's disgraceful the way the BBC has been treated by both Bernie and the government. It deserved to keep F1 after the brilliant job it did. The people who did it were top notch. Somehow I don't think Channel 4 will be quite the same. Only hope now is BT Sport get it
I agree it is a disgrace, but I think it is the BBC's own actions that are the disgrace here. The BBC are the ones that pulled out of the existing deal, you cant blame Bernie and the government for that.

I though the BBC show was pretty good. Let's hope c4 also make a good fist of it. I get the feeling it's only a matter of time before free to air F1 coverage disappears altogether though.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 13:19 (Ref:3599168)   #756
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It looks like I'm now one step closer to either stopping watching F! altogether after 50+ years, or finding myself some sort of undetectable but illegal way of watching it over the internet for free...
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 13:25 (Ref:3599170)   #757
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Nice maths. I think your wrong by a factor of one million. However that is for both.

You also need to allow for the period - i.e. Wimbledon fortnight. You've attempted for F1, but not the tennis.
I suspect 1.6m is an average game or the highlights package - the finals will be higher. Although there is no google involved in this guess. I wonder if I am nearer despite making this up.

Anyway I came here to say on thing:
Thank heavens it isn't ITV!
First thing to remember is that these are BBC numbers, not world wide. Did more Googling on Wimbledon. They quote 15 minute reach figures, but given that most of the UK will fit into the 15 minute reach bracket, that's hardly a fair figure. Similarly, F1 likes to quote the 15 minute bracket and it triples the figures.

So the 2014 Mens Singles Final averaged at 5.9m (significantly higher than my previous Google result!). So that sways it back in Tennis favour. But then, Wimbledon is £40m for 2 weeks of sport, whilst F1 is £55m for 9 months of sport. So that sways it back.

However, despite F1s higher initial cost, it appears to come out as better value than Tennis no matter how it is looked at. So the initial point still stands - BBC was never going to keep F1. You can blame the Goverment for not supporting the BBC, and you can blame the BBC for not managing the sport equally. But I don't see how this particular one is Bernies fault given the numbers.

But really, this deal puts F1 in an even worse place than it was this year. Those without Sky Sports will still be stuck with half the races. The BBC coverage is good, but I don't see Channel 4 being any better. I do see ads creeping into the live races, just like ITV did. So anyone watch on free TV is no better off. The suggestion of having it between Sky Sports and BT Sport would be a disaster. Those without Sky Sports will almost certainly not have BT Sports. So there would be no free coverage in the UK? Lovely.

When do I get to opt out of my TV License now that I'm paying for quite literally nothing now?
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 13:35 (Ref:3599173)   #758
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The BBC also produces quality content that wouldn't get produced otherwise. That is what the licence is for - educational, informative, minority programmes, and programmes for those disadvantaged as well as for more mainstream programmes produced in a non commercial quality way.

You can't opt out of paying for health care, education, roads and other infrastructure you don't use either. Sorry.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 13:37 (Ref:3599174)   #759
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It looks like I'm now one step closer to either stopping watching F! altogether after 50+ years, or finding myself some sort of undetectable but illegal way of watching it over the internet for free...
The only thing that'll stop me watching F1 is if continues to produce another season like this year's. I stopped watching during the Schumacher-Ferrari era because the whole thing had become monotonous and predictable.

So F1's going to Channel 4, might explain why they dropped their limited but excellent coverage of the NFL.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 13:50 (Ref:3599175)   #760
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The BBC also produces quality content that wouldn't get produced otherwise. That is what the licence is for - educational, informative, minority programmes, and programmes for those disadvantaged as well as for more mainstream programmes produced in a non commercial quality way.

You can't opt out of paying for health care, education, roads and other infrastructure you don't use either. Sorry.
The TV License website disagrees with this. I suspect the reason for this is that TV broadcasting isn't quite up their with health care, education and national infrastructure..

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one

If you do not watch Live TV then it is not required. If you watch Live TV online that is broadcast at the same time as it is broadcast in the UK (So Eurosport player, ITV Player, etc), then you do need one.

Since all events I watch are now tape delayed online, and I do not watch TV at all, I don't actually require one. It even introduces an odd grey area with events like WEC, which are broadcast live online, but the web broadcast is a different show to the Eurosport UK broadcast.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 14:10 (Ref:3599179)   #761
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You get my point though? Or are we now in that kind of discussion. The point of the TV licence is to fund programmes that other people watch. No one watches all the programmes commissioned on BBC. I was not talking about whether you need one, rather why the masses are charged, yet programmes for the minority are made.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 14:16 (Ref:3599180)   #762
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I get your point for general infrastructure (and completely agree - for the record, I'm a huge NHS fan, despite the complaints), but not for general entertainment, no. I will happily pay into a health care system i rarely use as it saves peoples lives. I will pay into road tax as it keeps the country running. That's all good. I won't pay for people to be entertained by TV, for the same reason I don't pay for peoples internet access. I don't feel that is my social responsibility.

The reason we've gone down this route is that the BBCs cost cutting also means program cutting, and therefore viewer cutting. This idea that they can spend less and still expect everybody to contribute whilst they cut off broadcasts which are popular is not a good way of going. And since they've continually cut away the F1 contract (the one TV show I did care about), using fake excuses about money, I don't see why I should continue to contribute to other peoples entertainment. The government and BBC management is badly mismanaging the BBC at the moment F1 fans are casualties of that.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 14:28 (Ref:3599186)   #763
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Akrapovic, it is too easy to misuse figures without even attempting to do so, and you seem to have done so with the viewing figures/time periods about both these sports.

Yes, Wimbledon may only last 13 days usually, but there is wall-to-wall TV coverage lasting a minimum of about 10 hours per day over the two main channels, plus all the additional feeds on the red button which covers the lesser courts. That all totals around 250 hours for the fortnight, and it all takes place almost down the road from BBC Towers.

With the GPs, it is slightly more difficult to look at the figures. The Beeb show just 10 races/qualifications live which means that they broadcast about 65 hours live plus around 30 hours for the delayed "live" races. In addition, there are the highlights programmes which possibly account for another 30 hours or so.

So, allowing for distortions in my calculations, F1 has some way to catch up with the hours that the tennis is available during that fortnight.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 14:42 (Ref:3599193)   #764
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also the size of the global audience, which buy and use the BBC feed, should be taken into account.

i would be very surprised if the BBC's mainly domestic coverage of F1 comes anywhere close to what the BBC get from their tennis coverage, both in terms of financial benefit from selling the Wimbledon feed internationally and in terms of global viewers (particularly in the US).
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 14:44 (Ref:3599195)   #765
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Further to my posting above, there are further distortions that need to be taken into account when you compare the two sports' events, and I don't know the figures for these.

The BBC also sells the broadcasts from both F1 and Wimbledon to other countries, and there is a possibility that much of their costs are recovered by those sales. The Beeb will now lose that income stream from F1.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 15:15 (Ref:3599202)   #766
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Akrapovic, it is too easy to misuse figures without even attempting to do so, and you seem to have done so with the viewing figures/time periods about both these sports.

Yes, Wimbledon may only last 13 days usually, but there is wall-to-wall TV coverage lasting a minimum of about 10 hours per day over the two main channels, plus all the additional feeds on the red button which covers the lesser courts. That all totals around 250 hours for the fortnight, and it all takes place almost down the road from BBC Towers.

With the GPs, it is slightly more difficult to look at the figures. The Beeb show just 10 races/qualifications live which means that they broadcast about 65 hours live plus around 30 hours for the delayed "live" races. In addition, there are the highlights programmes which possibly account for another 30 hours or so.

So, allowing for distortions in my calculations, F1 has some way to catch up with the hours that the tennis is available during that fortnight.
The numbers I gave were pre-Sky. So this is when it was exclusive to the BBC, and not a split of Live/Delated races. This of course was only the contract details. However during my Googling I did find a couple of articles saying BBC might drop Tennis too (whether or not there is any merit to these suggestions, I do not know). This would just further my opinion of wanting to opt out of license packages, as they cut viewing options back.

Last edited by Akrapovic; 21 Dec 2015 at 15:20.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 15:36 (Ref:3599208)   #767
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Further to my posting above, there are further distortions that need to be taken into account when you compare the two sports' events, and I don't know the figures for these.

The BBC also sells the broadcasts from both F1 and Wimbledon to other countries, and there is a possibility that much of their costs are recovered by those sales. The Beeb will now lose that income stream from F1.
Any income from F1 was, presumably, negated by the cost of licensing and producing it. Otherwise, they would still be showing it. This decision was to save money. They MUST have taken all income streams into account.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 15:53 (Ref:3599214)   #768
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Does not surprise me that BBC is quitting three year's early.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35149963

But at least it will remain on terrestial TV with Ch 4 ...

Pity that we are all going to enjoy the adverts from now on ...

Wonder who the presenters will be on Ch 4 unless I have missed something ...

I really hope that the F1 show will improve which has affected the viewing figures, but I will not hold my breath ...
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 15:57 (Ref:3599215)   #769
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If BBC drop Wimbledon I will eat my hat but it's not as delicious as strawberries and cream ...

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However during my Googling I did find a couple of articles saying BBC might drop Tennis too (whether or not there is any merit to these suggestions, I do not know). This would just further my opinion of wanting to opt out of license packages, as they cut viewing options back.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 16:02 (Ref:3599216)   #770
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I sincerely hope not. I refuse to pay for Sky or BT Sport

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It's disgraceful the way the BBC has been treated by both Bernie and the government. It deserved to keep F1 after the brilliant job it did. The people who did it were top notch. Somehow I don't think Channel 4 will be quite the same. Only hope now is BT Sport get it
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 16:06 (Ref:3599217)   #771
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Me too, F1 is pretty dire anyway.

Not like the good old days when Murray was commentating.

About time he was awarded a knighthood

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It looks like I'm now one step closer to either stopping watching F! altogether after 50+ years, or finding myself some sort of undetectable but illegal way of watching it over the internet for free...
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 16:08 (Ref:3599218)   #772
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What about Eastenders? ...

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When do I get to opt out of my TV License now that I'm paying for quite literally nothing now?
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 16:14 (Ref:3599220)   #773
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Mike, I think that the red button is being axed or the Beeb are considering it ...

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plus all the additional feeds on the red button which covers the lesser courts.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 16:19 (Ref:3599222)   #774
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True but they have also lost Top Gear's worldwide sales which was a bit daft unless there was more to it than we are being told ...

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The Beeb will now lose that income stream from F1.
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Old 21 Dec 2015, 16:21 (Ref:3599223)   #775
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What about Eastenders? ...
Does anyone watch that show anymore? It used to have phenomenal viewing figures.
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