F1 tyres

[MarkG]

Has it got to the point now that the Pirelli tyres are spoiling F1, or if not, in danger of spoiling it soon??
It seems to me that the races are becoming a bit of a lottery now because of the tyres. I don't know the best solution and maybe there isn't a problem really, and it's just my view alone??
If they stick with having to use two types, I'd like to see them have to use a durable tyre and a really grippy tyre during a race, but the latter must be used for a set minimum of laps.

[ECW Dan Selby]

No. And here's why:

We moaned when we had Bridgestones. We moaned when we had the tyre war.

The bottom line is, everything has pluses and negatives. This, for me, has much more pluses than negatives.

I can't recall the last time we had racing this good...

Selby

[steve_r]

We are stuck with one supplier thanks to the debacle of the 2005 US GP.

The racing is currently very close and there is plenty of overtaking and we have had four different races winners out of fours races this season. Some purists may argue this is ruined due to the "artifical nature" of purposefully fragile tyres, plus DRS and Kers.

From a drivers perspective it may be frustrating, but the F1 raqcing on show is more exciting than the Schumacher dominated years of the mid 1990s and early 2000's, when one driver/team could dominate pretty much the entire season, and overtakes mostly happened in the pits.

Is F1 a lottery as a result of the tyres? Wel no, its just that the nature of F1 has changed in that tyre management is more important than it used to be.

[ECW Dan Selby]

The thing is, people may moan about tyres having too much of a say in the outcome.

But what about the engines? Should they have more of a say? The aero? Should that be king?

The main thing is the drivers are still driving and having to manage the race, as they would with fuel, with tyre deg, and any other variable. There's still skill.

Selby

[wnut]

It seems that MSC is not a big fan

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99103

[rantanamo]

I think getting speed out of managing tyres is much more of a driver skill and a skill in developing the car than having the fastest engine and most perfect aero that varies little from race to race.

[safc_fan89]

With these tyres, the emphasis is on the drivers and teams to manage them. The team that does that best this season will stand a good chance of winning the title.

What's wrong with that? In the past, teams have won titles largely because their tyre manufacturer did a better job than the other. Did that reflect badly on the sport? Probably not, as it added another level of interest.

We had a season with no refuelling in 2010 with ultra-durable tyres and although the title race was close, most of the races, always the dry ones, were tedious. I'd much rather have what we have now than that.

[safc_fan89]

Originally Posted by wnut

It seems that MSC is not a big fan

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99103

Yet he was more complimentary about them in winter testing...what's changed?

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by safc_fan89

With these tyres, the emphasis is on the drivers and teams to manage them. The team that does that best this season will stand a good chance of winning the title.

What's wrong with that? In the past, teams have won titles largely because their tyre manufacturer did a better job than the other. Did that reflect badly on the sport? Probably not, as it added another level of interest.

We had a season with no refuelling in 2010 with ultra-durable tyres and although the title race was close, most of the races, always the dry ones, were tedious. I'd much rather have what we have now than that.

Yeh, this is probably a better way of explaining how I feel.

Selby

[MarkG]

I agree actually, with all the responses. We don't want to return to boring follow-my-leader races, and degrading tyres plus DRS, plus KERS, have all improved the show, but all have been necessary because of huge amounts of downforce along with very short braking distances. But with tyres degrading too much then maybe cars can't follow a car for very long or attempt passes because the tyres degrade so quickly due to sliding because of "dirty" air???
It was close to predictable with Red Bull last year, even with the tyres etc, and wet races helped more than anything.

Having said that though, I would rather have it as it is than the boring racing we had before.

[ECW Dan Selby]

And the thing is, this is more racing than the 'pass in the pits' rubbish we had for too long.

Selby

[wnut]

Originally Posted by MarkG

I agree actually, with all the responses. We don't want to return to boring follow-my-leader races, and degrading tyres plus DRS, plus KERS, have all improved the show, but all have been necessary because of huge amounts of downforce along with very short braking distances. But with tyres degrading too much then maybe cars can't follow a car for very long or attempt passes because the tyres degrade so quickly due to sliding because of "dirty" air???
It was close to predictable with Red Bull last year, even with the tyres etc, and wet races helped more than anything.

Having said that though, I would rather have it as it is than the boring racing we had before.

Ditto this!

Reckon Schu is getting Alzheimers?

[Marbot]

Tyre management is definitely the key to success.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99110

[F1Pete]

Regardless of the tire situation, it is consistent amongst all the teams. Some teams are dealing with it better than others. I think the key this year is to have an efficient car that is easier on tire wear than the competition. Of course, part of that is the responsibility of the driver over the course of the race.

I like the new tire situation. After seeing what I witnessed yesterday, it goes to show you that pole position is not as important as it once was. Yes, Vettel won from pole, but I am referring to Kimi and Lotus strategy. In previous years the pole sitter seemed to cruise to victory. At least the pole sitter can't count on a win this year. Monaco should be a litter more interesting this year.

[ECW Dan Selby]

We need a repeat of last year's Monaco, without the stupid red flag/tyre change rule

Selby

[Marbot]

It's a good thing that's happening now. The cars are going at different speeds because they are using the tyres differently. Cars that are two stopping will be travelling along at different speeds to cars that are three stopping, and this also creates some of what we are now seeing on the race track. And, as Vettel pointed out, Kimi came from eleventh place to nearly winning the race after what was not a particularly good start. So it may be that saving another set of tyres trumps getting pole position, and gives that driver a better strategy for the race.

I think that it's much more preferable to the times when we had 'Bridgestone circuits' and 'Michelin circuits' or having tyres that lasted a race distance, knowing that, barring mechanical problems, whoever is in the lead on the second lap will probably go on to win the race.

[Knowlesy]

Pirelli and their Mickey mouse tyres are destroying the sport.

Let me be absolutely clear here: tyre management is an important part of racing. I hated that drivers never suffered too much with tyre problems in the refuelling era. I resented Schumacher doing a twenty stop strategy to avoid tyre wear. In fact I used to joke that the tyres should be rubbish.

But Pirelli took the joke seriously and made tyres out of cheese. You have two choices per weekend: the softer, Dairylea tyre or the harder blue cheese variety. Both are complete crap and it hamstrings some drivers once you factor in that other unnecessary rule of having to use two compounds in the race.

Oh and there is no tyre war, so it is ok for Pirelli to make an absolute arse of themselves.

We had perfect tyre regulations in 2005, but they were banned after a year because Schumacher and Ferrari didn't like them. I was angry at that, but this time I am right behind him. This is stupid. FIA, please, see sense and do the right thing. F1 should be subtle and nuanced, this is an absolute abortion.

[Lasource]

I don't get it: we get the most unpredictable season since 1982 and just because a has-been can't win and (opening the drivers excuse book on page 2) blames his tyres, suddenly it's an aberration?

So far this season we've had everything, from a rain-hit, against the odds Ferrari win to unexpected new winners and a 'beaten' reigning champion coming back in emphatic fashion.

So the tyres degrade. Haven't they always? With so many potentially winning strategies, the races will remain unpredictable, continue to give us cracking races, and the championship will swing back and forth for the entire season. I've got a tenner on Benson for the championship, but I get the feeling I won't know till the last lap of the last race if I've backed a winner. Isn't that what we want?

[shiny side up!]

I miss the days of the tire wars. Why is it a good idea to go with a sole supplier for anything, be it brakes, engines, chassis, gearboxes, wings, or ECUs? About the only responsible answer from a racing point of view is to save a couple of dollars. Technical competition FTW.

That being said, I don't see anything particularly offensive about the current state of the racing on the single-make Pirellis. The same tires are made available to all teams and drivers - they don't present an unfair opportunity to anyone.

Beyond that, I don't think they make the races 'random' - whichever team/driver have the best tire strategy through car design, setup, pit strategy, and driver inputs to the car on-track make the most of thier tires.

Multiple teams use engines from the same manufacturers with varying degrees of on-track success, nobody complains about that.

As to Mickey the Shoe's complaining about tire degredation - he is old enough to have driven in a period in which F1 cars were not bullet proof on the durability/reliability front and drivers had to manage their equipment... and many see those days as one of F1's golden eras. The current tires really aren't too different from that... so what if you cannot push balls-out the entire race distance? That doesn't make the current events any less of a 'race' - if F1 was all about ultimate pace deciding the finishing order, the weekend would be done after the Q1 session.

[chillibowl]

for now i love it and i love how close everyone is in terms of lap time.

Q3 however seems to be in risk of becoming a bit of a joke and even Q2 is becoming odd with some drivers not willing to push hard because of the advantages of saving a set...although this has been the case for a while now.

so while i like being able to save a set i would also like to see the quali format tweaked to encourage more running in the final session. just spitballing but maybe awarding an extra set of tires to the top 4-5 finishers. basically it should be harder to run from 11th to the podium particularity in a race with no safety car or changing weather.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

No. And here's why:

We moaned when we had Bridgestones. We moaned when we had the tyre war.

The bottom line is, everything has pluses and negatives. This, for me, has much more pluses than negatives.

I can't recall the last time we had racing this good...

Selby

We moaned when we had Bridgestone. We moaned when we had a tyre war. We moan now we have Pirelli. Bottom line is, we moan.

I'd prefer a tyre war, but this is alright.

[davyboy]

Prior to Pirelli becoming the sole supplier, I was in favour of a tyre war with complete freedom of supplier and compound choice throughout a race weekend... but you know something, what we have right now is possibly even better. Pirelli have totally transformed F1 from a boring procession into something of real excitement... and its all down to these tyres. I agree with Michael Schumacher a lot of the time, but not on this occasion. The race is not a lottery, its a set of strategic choices, with a heavy penalty if a decision made was wrong [c.f. Kimi in China].

[Peralta]

Leave everything alone. Do not touch anything except maybe for KERS lol. I'm hoping for a Lotus win at Barcelona. That would make it five different constructors for the first five races. That's never happened.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Prior to Pirelli becoming the sole supplier, I was in favour of a tyre war with complete freedom of supplier and compound choice throughout a race weekend... but you know something, what we have right now is possibly even better. Pirelli have totally transformed F1 from a boring procession into something of real excitement... and its all down to these tyres. I agree with Michael Schumacher a lot of the time, but not on this occasion. The race is not a lottery, its a set of strategic choices, with a heavy penalty if a decision made was wrong [c.f. Kimi in China].

This proves that Schumacher is, for once, right.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Pirelli and their Mickey mouse tyres are destroying the sport.