MotoGP Round 11 - US Grand Prix - Laguna Seca

[BootsOntheSide]

Classic race until Stoner went off, with some great aggressive and defensive moves. Stoner had a bike advantage all weekend, but Rossi looked like the better rider on the day - and at a circuit he doesn't like and hasn't had much success at in the past. Casey's racecraft still needs a bit of work, but he's only young and still quite inexperienced.

Some good stuff further down the order as well - Dovizioso beating Hayden at his home round might be a symbolic thing if he takes his ride for 09. Ben Spies again showed that he's one to watch by beating (an admittedly less-than-100%) Capirossi.

[ghinzani]

Originally Posted by mac

Difference being that Zanardi returned to the track well in front of Herta, and there was no danger of taking him out as he returned.

Rossi rode straight across the track and would have taken them both out had Casey not had his wits about him.

Heaven forbid that I would even contemplate this about the people's champion, but I doubt Rossi would have been too disappointed championship-wise, had they both failed to finish.

That particular incident was quite poor form I thought.

Agree totally there, most of Rossi's stuff was hard but fair, however one or two incidents especially at the corkscrew where dangerous to both riders. If Rossi had been sat contemplating the Rainey curve with a broken limb I for one would not have been surprised or for that matter sorry.

[Knowlesy]

A terrific battle, a terrific race. Just what the championship fight needs.

The slight spoiler being Casey complaining about Rossi having the audacity to overtake him and, my, aren't we surprised at this? Well, no, not really. Perhaps Casey should retire or something if he feels this way.

[wills]

Rossi's move on the corkscrew imo is fair, he was well alongside under braking but he turned abit wide. Yeah he almost ran into Stoner but it must have taken a lot of skill to keep him from taking him out. If you look at that move again you will understand that Rossi didn't run out wide on purpose.

Props to Rossi for keeping up with Stoner in the early stages of the race. He managed to equal the pace of the "dominate" Ducati in the first 2 sectors by qualifying after being quite some way off after practice.

[2000yellow360]

I was at the corkscrew at the time and it didn't look too bad from the inside of the corner, but on the video, it looks a little dodgy. However, it is clear that despite Stone's better bike, Valentino had him covered. It's clear to me that unless something terrible happens, Valentino gets his championship this year, he's more than willing to go to the hospital to get it, and Stoner isn't. Game over, I suspect.

Art

[Gerben24]

Valentino Rossi is a rather good motorcycle racer, isn't he?

[mac]

Originally Posted by wills

Yeah he almost ran into Stoner but it must have taken a lot of skill to keep him from taking him out.

Exactly what I was talking about. Rossi was out of control across the dirt and virtually took out Stoner. The skill was Stoner's for avoiding the out of control Rossi.

Originally Posted by wills

If you look at that move again you will understand that Rossi didn't run out wide on purpose.

No, it wasn't deliberate - but it was careless at best.

[Trev Campbell]

Originally Posted by wills

Rossi's move on the corkscrew imo is fair, he was well alongside under braking but he turned abit wide. Yeah he almost ran into Stoner but it must have taken a lot of skill to keep him from taking him out. If you look at that move again you will understand that Rossi didn't run out wide on purpose.

Props to Rossi for keeping up with Stoner in the early stages of the race. He managed to equal the pace of the "dominate" Ducati in the first 2 sectors by qualifying after being quite some way off after practice.

Firstly I'm a Stoner fan and have no problem with most of the moves that happened, it was fantastic hard racing, but the Corkscrew incident bordered on the reckless side for mine.


Firstly Stoner passed Rossi on the outside up the hill to the corkscrew. Rossi then knew he had to pass Stoner back immediatly and braked way to late to make it into the corkscrew properly and ran off the road. Stoner has made the corner and at this point I think Rossi knew that he had just given Stoner the advantage he would need to pull away and win. Normally when riders run off into the dirt, they tiptoe back onto the track as to avoid a fall. Rossi guns it and comes back onto the track at the exit to the corkscrew infront of Stoner forcing him to lift and change line stoppig Stoner from skipping away.

A bit reckless from my point of view, but as has been said I think that Rossi's unscrupulous Sete tactics have surfaced again.

As long as Stoner remembers to 'do unto others as others do unto you' and they don't take each other out we should be in for some awesome racing for the rest of the year.

[Gerben24]

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

Firstly I'm a Stoner fan...

As a Stoner fan, what do make of his antics in Parc Ferme?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...es/7516543.stm
(This piece of footage deserves an Oscar).

[LuiggiSpeed]

Oh common...I hope Stoner steps up his game next time and show some cojones, while I'm a Stoner fan as well, road racing is tough buisness,if you just want to drive a fast bike on straight line without any interruptions, that's what drag race is for,this was a display of tactics,attacks,counterattacks and the braves man on that day won. If I remember well,the first race on Quatar on 2007 Stoner put his front wheel ahead of Rossi many times and Rossi wasn't whining.I think this was an epic race for history,and I hope next one Stoner wants some more of that. This race has set the tone for the rest of the season and it was about time I stop yawning at MotoGP. Guys in WSBK ride like that all the time and that's what they get pay big bucks to do.

[bestfit]

Originally Posted by Gerben24

As a Stoner fan, what do make of his antics in Parc Ferme?

Speaking as bike racing fan, rather than being put into one corner or the other, I have no problem with what Stoner said, I was however disappointed that he wouldn't shake hands.

I much prefer to hear what a rider really thinks after a race rather than the usual sanitised PR responses that we normally get.
I have been following this sport for over 40 years and have read/heard the same sort of comments dozens of times from many different riders. It's a passionate sport and they all play to win.

If we go back 12 months to Turkey last year, Rossi was very ****ed off with Elias over what he claimed was "dangerous" riding -
"I'm quite unhappy with Elias today because I think he was quite dangerous - more than once he passed me on the inside and then altered his line. This is not a correct way to race,"
Is that comment any more or less controversial than what Stoner said?

Stoner has added himself to a long list of riders who have bagged the opposition at one time or another, Rossi, Gibenau, Biaggi, Doohan, Rainey, Schwantz, Kocinski, Lawson, Spencer, Gardner, Roberts 1 & 2, Sheen etc etc.

To me these sort of incidents just add more spice to the greatest show on earth. Like a good soap opera we now have to wait to see how this latest twist will affect the plot ..... will Stoner wilt under the pressure of Rossi's mind games? Will he come back stronger than ever and grab his 2nd title? What role will Pedrosa play in the fortunes of both riders?

I can't wait

[bestfit]

Originally Posted by Gerben24

Bestfit, Your Avatar Is Out Of Date!!!

He just about has this move perfected.

[Gerben24]

I don't think your comparison is completely fair Bestfit. In my view we saw some hard but fair racing at Laguna. But in Turkey last year Toni made one bansai move forcing VR almost off track and a move where he overtook and immediatly pulled into VR's braking zone, which is pretty dangerous ofcourse.

I don't anybody has any problems with what Stoner said in parc ferme. He told his side of the story and he did it very polite. However, he showed his true nature by not shaking VR's hand. He's had a couple of other 'eyebrow frowning moments' these last two years. Kicking and weaving to other riders, shaking his head all the time. He can also be very rude to the fans, which is a shame.

The funny thing is that while Stoner is complaining about Rossi's riding, it actually was Stoner who was being 'dangerous'. Because he touched Rossi twice. Once when he overtook Rossi going up the hill to the corkscrew and the other when Rossi overtook Stoner round the outside at turn 3, Stoner rode into him when exciting the corner. It's a disgrace... just kiddin'

Let's hope we see more of these kind of races during the rest of the season!

[chunder]

There was no contact at all between eitehr of them, they both said this after the race and in press releases I have seen.

And Elias is hardly a championship threat so I think Vale was just moaning coz Toni took him out earlier in the season at Jerez!

[bestfit]

I think you have misunderstood my point Gerben. I was not comparing this race to the Elias/Rossi incident last year at all. I am merely saying that every now and then one rider will be unhappy about something another rider did and will say so. The Rossi/Elias incident was an example not a comparison. It has been happening for as long as I can remember and I don't think Stoner's comments require anymore emphasis than any other incident in the past. Regardless of what I think or anyone else thinks, something happened on the racetrack that Stoner didn't like and he chose to comment on it. Last year something happened on the racetrack that Rossi didn't like and he chose to comment on it.
As I said I was disappointed that Casey didn't shake hands with Vale in Parc Ferme as it goes against my own sense of fair play. But even this is not without precedent. I remember Rossi refusing to shake hands with Sete after the Sepang GP in 2004? when Honda had Rossi penalised for his team tampering with the grid the night before the GP. I also remember Rainey refusing to shake Schwantz's hand after a particularly hard race in the 80's. I was disappointed by those incidents also but it's all part of the show and the show is better for it.

[djb]

bestfit, very good points ,specifically about how most racers have at one point been teed off at another racer enough to make similiar comments. I too am neither for this rider or that, and Stoners comments were said politely and he has a point. Now, one could say the same thing about Zinardi's moves over the years, not just the corkscrew one, but others on streetcourses, so as with bike riders as you mentioned, big names, this is just part of the real deal with two guys really really wanting to beat the other...

and yes, I too look forward to getting back from vacation to see what will happen.
ps, anyone else notice Rossy's tone of voice, he comment on being stronger in braking" was for me, a definate mind game toss out...Ã* la Prost...
pss-thanks for your point of view Corner worker guy, yellow360 I believe.

cheers

[Gerben24]

Originally Posted by bestfit

I think you have misunderstood my point Gerben. I was not comparing this race to the Elias/Rossi incident last year at all. I am merely saying that every now and then one rider will be unhappy about something another rider did and will say so. The Rossi/Elias incident was an example not a comparison. It has been happening for as long as I can remember and I don't think Stoner's comments require anymore emphasis than any other incident in the past. Regardless of what I think or anyone else thinks, something happened on the racetrack that Stoner didn't like and he chose to comment on it. Last year something happened on the racetrack that Rossi didn't like and he chose to comment on it.
As I said I was disappointed that Casey didn't shake hands with Vale in Parc Ferme as it goes against my own sense of fair play. But even this is not without precedent. I remember Rossi refusing to shake hands with Sete after the Sepang GP in 2004? when Honda had Rossi penalised for his team tampering with the grid the night before the GP. I also remember Rainey refusing to shake Schwantz's hand after a particularly hard race in the 80's. I was disappointed by those incidents also but it's all part of the show and the show is better for it.

Agreed!

[cg7aa]

Dorna has something to shout about it seems.

http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2008...ca+2008+battle

[jhansen]

I missed out on a lot of this discussion. Here is a different perspective:

Kevin Schwantz: Exactly. And when I heard Stoner complain a little bit about the passes and the this and the that, it's like, "He never took a shot at you unnecessarily. He ran off the track? You're the one that put your position, that put yourself in the position outside of him, to get bumped into. And you leaned on him as much as anything." I'd have waited. I'd have let him slid across the track. I'd have driven right by him, and he'd have probably never seen me again. But it's good to see that there's still a little fire in some of those guys out there, because you don't see it very often. It's like, "Hey, here we go. We're going off into this corner. I'm up the inside of you. I'm going to let off the brakes and take the spot. I know it's going to make you mad because I'm slowing you down a little bit, but it's the only chance I've really got to beat you."

This was taken from an interview on Superbikeplanet. It's nice to see a racer's perspective.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Aug/080810-34.htm