Goodwood Revival

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I just watched some of the big sports car race on ITV 4, dunno what it was called but it had Cobras and things. Some really boneheaded driving there and some very expensive accidents.

But blimey isn't the pit lane dangerous? It was like the North Circular. They even sent the winner out without his belts done up properly.

And what was that Aston doing just off the racing line in the middle of the road at the end of the race? All looked pretty damned hairy on the TV but I'm sure the camera was playing tricks.

I haven't seen the ITV4 version, I watched it live, and driving standards seemed quite good this year. The incident at the end was caused by oil I believe and everyone did a pretty good job of avoiding each other for an incident that could have been quite expensive.

[midgetman]

Well, maybe I read it wrong then. It looked like the Cobra driver that ended in the tyres at Turn 1 caused his own downfall by trying to overtake on the grass. It looked like said Bizzarini was tapped into a spin by someone else. It looked like van de Gaarde left the pits without his belts done up properly. It looked like the pit lane was dangerous chaos. All in the space of the ten minutes I managed to watch.

[retrognome]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Well, maybe I read it wrong then. It looked like the Cobra driver that ended in the tyres at Turn 1 caused his own downfall by trying to overtake on the grass. It looked like said Bizzarini was tapped into a spin by someone else. It looked like van de Gaarde left the pits without his belts done up properly. It looked like the pit lane was dangerous chaos. All in the space of the ten minutes I managed to watch.

The pit lane rules are strict and strongly enforced by experienced marshals and officials. Surprised however nobody mentioned the tremendous near-miss on lap 2 through the chicane. Overall, driving standards by the 'celebrity' drivers were better this year. Image Retro-Speed magazine.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by retrognome

The pit lane rules are strict and strongly enforced by experienced marshals and officials. Surprised however nobody mentioned the tremendous near-miss on lap 2 through the chicane. Overall, driving standards by the 'celebrity' drivers were better this year. Image Retro-Speed magazine.

The Sunbeam Tiger spin on the oil was something I saw in the ten minutes I managed to watch, and I was amazed & relieved that everyone managed to miss him!

[retrognome]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

The Sunbeam Tiger spin on the oil was something I saw in the ten minutes I managed to watch, and I was amazed & relieved that everyone managed to miss him!

Not true. The Pearson/Harris E Type started the ball rolling by spinning out of control, leaving all and sundry to then work things out for themselves. Chris Beighton (Tiger) was in no way to blame and there was no oil.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by retrognome

Not true. The Pearson/Harris E Type started the ball rolling by spinning out of control, leaving all and sundry to then work things out for themselves. Chris Beighton (Tiger) was in no way to blame and there was no oil.

Sounds like the edited TV coverage was a case of 'why let the truth spoil a good story'. Thanks Peter for clarifying!

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by retrognome

Not true. The Pearson/Harris E Type started the ball rolling by spinning out of control, leaving all and sundry to then work things out for themselves. Chris Beighton (Tiger) was in no way to blame and there was no oil.

I stand corrected then (as I sit at my computer!). What bI saw on the interweb didn't show the initial E-Type spin, just the aftermath of Chris going backwards in the Tiger and everyone (somehow) avoiding him.

[p261brm]

[QUOTE=Tim Falce;3457457]I haven't seen the ITV4 version, I watched it live, and driving standards seemed quite good this year. The incident at the end was caused by oil I believe and everyone did a pretty good job of avoiding each other for an incident that could have been quite expensive.[/QUOTE
Quite good, would not want to see driving standards get any worse, first race Saturday morning, Gentlemen's single seat racing cars, being driven in the most un Gentlemanly fashion one could imagine, for me the highlight was the Canberra coming across the camp site on it's wing tip the tree by the gate into the circuit visibly shaken as it past, not quite as low as Ray Hanna's trick with a Spitfire, but pretty impressive.

[justracing]

not quite as low as Ray Hanna's trick with a Spitfire, but pretty impressive.
I was in the grandstand opposite the pits for the opening ceremony in 1998 when Ray Hannah flew past at 30 odd feet and 200mph, it has to be the most astonishing sight I've ever experienced, I was apprenticed in the aircraft industry and watched BAC's chief test pilot 'Dizzy' Addicott pull off some amazing feats at Wisley but that Spitfire pass was incredible. I only recently found the video clip on You Tube and for anyone who hasn't seen it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnc78LW7V1U. I was seated behind the guy with the camera.
For the record I was at Goodwood Saturday and Sunday and I thought the driving standards were pretty good particularly from the privateers, I've seen far worse from so so called professionals and the pitlane is always going to be an issue at Goodwood, top marks to the marshalling for keeping the pitlane incident free. As usual the tv coverage is edited for drama and often misses essential footage leading up to a particular incident.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by justracing

not quite as low as Ray Hanna's trick with a Spitfire, but pretty impressive.
I was in the grandstand opposite the pits for the opening ceremony in 1998 when Ray Hannah flew past at 30 odd feet and 200mph, it has to be the most astonishing sight I've ever experienced

Yep, amazing stuff. I like this one too with the Cad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8_5Qc1mK54

Originally Posted by justracing

For the record I was at Goodwood Saturday and Sunday and I thought the driving standards were pretty good particularly from the privateers, I've seen far worse from so so called professionals and the pitlane is always going to be an issue at Goodwood, top marks to the marshalling for keeping the pitlane incident free. As usual the tv coverage is edited for drama and often misses essential footage leading up to a particular incident.

Yes, I'm afraid some (but by no means all) of the pros really let themselves down in historic racing. It's supposed to be nostalgia and fun with some great and very valuable cars, not the latest GP on which your career depends. There are a couple I wouldn't let near my old dinky racing cars let alone the real thing. Fortunately, I'm not in the position to consider that possibility!

[john ruston]

Where do the marshals come from as I understand they used to be from BARC.

Is this still the case as the work clearing the 250F Parnell incident was unusual with people from behind the fence helping the driver who had about seven broken ribs.

[Dan Friel]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Where do the marshals come from as I understand they used to be from BARC.

Is this still the case as the work clearing the 250F Parnell incident was unusual with people from behind the fence helping the driver who had about seven broken ribs.

The marshalling is organised by BARC. I can't comment on the Parnell incident, as I didn't see it. I recall when Rupert Avon rolled his C type at Madgwick (1999?), some members of the public assisted due to the weight of the car.

[Mistron]

A few years ago I witnessed Martin Stretton's enormous shunt in the Bizzarrini when he simply carried straight on at the end of the start/ finish straight and into the tyre wall. It was an enormous hit which effectively folded the car in half with him trapped inside. Horrid.

What was amazing was that before the car had even settled back onto the ground, a woman from the crowd was over the barrier and on her way round the back of the car to the drivers door, clearly shouting to the marshals for assistance.

It turned out she was some sort of trauma specialist and exactly the person you'd want in that situation!

In any other circumstances, I doubt Marshals would want members of the public trackside though, would they?

[john ruston]

If no one else moved the drivers would only be to happy to see people come over the fence!

[Mistron]

I don't doubt it! I just can't imagine there not being enough marshalls to right a car, or at the very least stabalise it?

If spectators are needed, it's a sad state of affairs.

Though it's reasonably common in rallies, so I suppose, what's the difference?

[john ruston]

I agree.
It would be a sad state of affairs if a spectator had to get over fence , turn engine off and get driver out .

[mferr]

Some interesting perspectives here.
At the vast majority of meetings manning levels are significantly lower than those at the Revival.
The common thread to both the C-type and P3 (not 250F) incidents was the lack of any roll-over protection. Marshal training cites a number of incidents where unsuccessful attempts to right cars have caused further serious injury or worse. In the absence of fire, the safest place for the driver until safe extraction is possible, is to remain in the car. This should limit the extent of any injury to that caused by the initial impact(s) and entrapment, even if it makes uncomfortable viewing.
Marshals are trained to stop and wait for the dust to settle first. If you are going onto a live track at any time, your priority is to ensure that you don't put yourself in the position of becoming a potential casualty. You're no use to anyone then. Agreed this can look like initial inactivity at first.

[Teletubby]

Originally Posted by Mistron

A few years ago I witnessed Martin Stretton's enormous shunt in the Bizzarrini when he simply carried straight on at the end of the start/ finish straight and into the tyre wall. It was an enormous hit which effectively folded the car in half with him trapped inside. Horrid.

What was amazing was that before the car had even settled back onto the ground, a woman from the crowd was over the barrier and on her way round the back of the car to the drivers door, clearly shouting to the marshals for assistance.

It turned out she was some sort of trauma specialist and exactly the person you'd want in that situation!

In any other circumstances, I doubt Marshals would want members of the public trackside though, would they?

She most certainly wasn't and I gave her short shrift at the scene. She was removed back to the spectator area forthwith.

[john ruston]

Think you will find trauma specialist came from spectators in Humphrey Avon incident.

The whole of the incident with Open wheel cars last month needs investigating and what happened afterwards.Lessons can be learnt.

When respected people question the situation it needs sorting as all of us want Goodwood to continue but with the expected devices being available when incidents occur.

Wynn Percy could and should lead it as he is aware of what happened.He has the cameras

[NICK ALLISON]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Where do the marshals come from as I understand they used to be from BARC.

Is this still the case as the work clearing the 250F Parnell incident was unusual with people from behind the fence helping the driver who had about seven broken ribs.

We are not confused with the fact that marshals with certain duties are invited to wear appropriate "civvies" at the Revival ?

[john ruston]

No confusion and I am not sure it's good PR to give people who are trying to help. ' short shift' or whatever

It is in the events best interest to ensure the best marshals and medical facilities are available throughout the weekend or John Smiths observations will be confirmed.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by john ruston

It is in the events best interest to ensure the best marshals and medical facilities are available throughout the weekend or John Smiths observations will be confirmed.

I think to make my observations clear John Ruston, they are based around the experience of organising/running/managing race meetings where, to improve the 'show', I have faced formal criticism for not complying with minor MSA regulations. Many similar regulations now seem to be ignored at Goodwood because of the 'quasi' historical aspects of the show, which are (in my opinion), in danger of 'the tail wagging the dog'. I think I'll leave it there.

[john ruston]

John,you are one of the few on here that are experienced enough to know precisely how a motor racing meeting should be organised under a MSA permit.

That is why your views are way more valid than others including mine!

It is in Historic Racings best interest that Goodwood which is along with LMC the most important historic race meeting in Europe ( or reasonable enough to say the world) is seen to conform to the acceptable standards which others have to adhere to and set an example.

[Teletubby]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Think you will find trauma specialist came from spectators in Humphrey Avon incident.

Nope, I'm afraid not, there was a Doctor there who was 'replaced' quite quickly when it was realised that he was out of his depth. Interestingly he has subsequently rewritten history and projects himself as the hero of the piece. He wasn't.

[Teletubby]

Originally Posted by john ruston

No confusion and I am not sure it's good PR to give people who are trying to help. ' short shift' or whatever

It is in the events best interest to ensure the best marshals and medical facilities are available throughout the weekend or John Smiths observations will be confirmed.

I'm afraid that actually you are right on both incidents, there was a lady who came from the spectator area at the Martin Stretton accident, as well as the guy at the Rupert Avon incident, she was removed.

I'm sorry but she should not have been there, was not signed on (the race continued under safety car), had no PPE, no experience of pre-hospital medicine, no proof that she was qualified and was tying up resources ensuring she wasn't in the way or coming to harm. In the circumstances I make no apology for giving her short shrift and having her removed.

I resent any implication that the Marshals and medical team are anything but excellent for the event I'm afraid.