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Old 21 Jul 2011, 04:54 (Ref:2929261)   #326
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The shareholders of the existing NZV8 class believe the IP of the NZST car is theirs and have filed legal documents to get what they believe was taken from them.

Watch this space...
Groan.... This could end up just like the Superleague vs ARL in the 90's - years and millions wasted on lawsuits with no change in the outcome, and eventually a negotiated re-merger of the two series. Then there was IRL/Champcar split. Same thing.

Who is going to actually pay the legal fees? The teams? They are cash strapped enough as it is (well most are). I can only see a lose-lose scenario here.

If MSNZ had stuck to their knitting in the first place, not created TMC and just done their job as a regulatory authority rather than trying to be a money making business as well, the situation may well never have gotten to this. Now motorsport is going to suffer and if one or both of these series goes down the gurgler then we the fans will suffer too.

My suggestion is that people start talking to each other rather than using fat cat lawyers
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 05:10 (Ref:2929266)   #327
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Please excuse me for being an Aussie but a NZ fan here but there are some things that just dont add up. The current fleet of NZV8 dudes did not want to spend any money on large upgrades or buying into the ST formula but when they smell some success going on all of a sudden they want some blood and maybe rightly so, who knows. First I hear of new bodies for the current car $20k plus, then a new spaceframe 15-30k plus, then sequential box $15k plus so where is the NZV8 thing going. This is in stark contrast to what a number of current lower end competitors wanted. Kneejerk reactions to making the racing better.......Their wasnt anything wrong with the racing, it was great, everyone loves it over here cause NZV8's race, its just the car is old and cost a fortune to run and maintain. The most reliable part of the car is the chassis and all they are thinking here is putting bandaids over the current problems! The other reason that I see is only mentioned once are the promoters. It is widely known over here that your sport suffers immenesly in this area and the V8SC guys rub it in. The sport needs to step into the modern day era and be accountable like any successful company. I reckon this is where ST are smart
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 05:49 (Ref:2929270)   #328
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Wow! I certainly didn't have any knowledge that was about to happen, these were just obvious questions that were raised firstly by the "Car Of Tomorrow" posts originally posted by Mark Petch CEO VEEGA, his subsequent departure from VEEGA, and then the sudden emergence of the "new V8ST" which for all intents appeared to be the same chassis that VEEGA had been paying Paul Ceprnich/PACE to develop. Its one thing to take the ball and go home if you don't like the way the game is playing out, but to steal the bat,wickets and team uniforms on your way out of the grounds is quite something else!

I have no involvement in either of the series, other than as a motorsport enthusaiast with an occasional bit of spectating, but I can only imagine the NZV8/VEEGA fraternity must be spitting nails about this scenario.
I remember when V8ST was announced it was like a bolt from the blue, just had me confounded cause I thought we were on track for the new car of tomorrow built by the australians destined for the NZV8 championship.

Sounds like MNZ isn't involved anymore anyways with NZV8's, which is as it should be.

No doubt changes needed to be made, but the real competitors is other sports like rugby and cricket.

As I said it wasn't going to end well and looks like that will probably be the case. Shame for NZ motorsport. It could be enough to collapse support for any major national series and with it the national level support series as well.
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 05:50 (Ref:2929271)   #329
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My suggestion is that people start talking to each other rather than using fat cat lawyers
Don't be using any common sense here, that isn't allowed.
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 06:14 (Ref:2929275)   #330
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Please excuse me for being an Aussie but a NZ fan here but there are some things that just dont add up. The current fleet of NZV8 dudes did not want to spend any money on large upgrades or buying into the ST formula
the NZV8 dudes were planning on upgrading to a new NZV8 'Car Of Tomorrow' car.. this was planned before the ST formula was even thought of.
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 08:05 (Ref:2929295)   #331
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It's a bit of bugger when you have mates in both camps which is why I have tried to keep out of this debate until now but if I understand what I have been reading of recent it appears as though NZV8 had a working party investigating the various upgrade options for their fleet including the possibility of a new car built within a certain framework of specification. The working party came back with their suggestion/s which may have exceeded the brief that they were given and as a result there was some acromony between NZV8 and the working party. The working party then split from NZV8 and took with them their suggested changes for the future which is where NZST eventuated from. Meanwhile NZV8 organised another working group to come up with a suitable plan for the future as was in the origonal brief and this has ended up with the car that they have announced in recent days.

I have read on the forum regarding various suggestions as to how events can be better promoted but in my neck of the woods thing like school visits, radio station interviews, displays in malls, street parades etc have all been part of the scene since the early 1980's.

What has to be remembers is that NZ has a population smaller than Sydney and seven permanent race circuits and that the media is like a horse in that you can lead one to water but you cannot make it drink

This is going to end in tears guys, the real questions is who's tears.
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 10:31 (Ref:2929358)   #332
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Right & Wrong

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It's a bit of bugger when you have mates in both camps which is why I have tried to keep out of this debate until now but if I understand what I have been reading of recent it appears as though NZV8 had a working party investigating the various upgrade options for their fleet including the possibility of a new car built within a certain framework of specification. The working party came back with their suggestion/s which may have exceeded the brief that they were given and as a result there was some acromony between NZV8 and the working party. The working party then split from NZV8 and took with them their suggested changes for the future which is where NZST eventuated from. Meanwhile NZV8 organised another working group to come up with a suitable plan for the future as was in the origonal brief and this has ended up with the car that they have announced in recent days.

I have read on the forum regarding various suggestions as to how events can be better promoted but in my neck of the woods thing like school visits, radio station interviews, displays in malls, street parades etc have all been part of the scene since the early 1980's.

What has to be remembers is that NZ has a population smaller than Sydney and seven permanent race circuits and that the media is like a horse in that you can lead one to water but you cannot make it drink

This is going to end in tears guys, the real questions is who's tears.
Hi Southern Man your version of events aren't quite right so I will post the relevant info from my earlier post. All of these facts are why the current board have issued legal action against Mark Petch, Wayne Anderson, Gary Pedersen, John McIntyre, Chris Abbott and the V8 Super Tourer Co. How could it ever be right with the actions of the board of directors?


NZV8s/Veega shareholders voted at Taupo in March 2010 to commission the board of directors to finalize the plan and price for a new V8 chassis for the current or new teams and shareholders to move the category forward.
April 2010 at the Hamilton V8 Supercar event the board presented the Paul Seprnich designed chassis and indicative price to the shareholders with a progression plan for the whole group to upgrade their cars. The NZV8/Veega shareholders were unanimous with their support towards the new project and a number of NZV8/Veega shareholders in good faith invested in the first prototype car to be built. This car was meant to have been built tested and displayed during the 2010/11 V8 championship series. This didn't happen in fact the prototype chassis didn't turn up until February 2011 along with the knowledge that 3 of the NZV8/Veega board of directors headed by Mark Petch. Wayne Anderson and Garry Pedersen had formed a private company called V8 Supertourers Ltd. back in September 2010 later to be joined by their fellow directors as new directors in the new company John McIntyre and Chris Abbott. There was always an undisclosed plan to take what was initially a NZV8/Veega new car project and effectively take it from the shareholders that the paid for the initial plans for this chassis. This became evident when the car was launched in February 2011 and the announcement of a rebel series lead by Mark Petch and co. On discovery of this information a number of the NZV8/Veega shareholders requested a Vote of no confidence in the board motion to be heard at a Special General Meeting at Taupo in March 2011. On receiving this motion request the NZV8/Veega board of Mark Petch, Wayne Anderson, Garry Pedersen, John McIntyre and Chris Abbott all resigned prior to this meeting.
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 10:49 (Ref:2929369)   #333
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So your saying that the NZV8 guys paid for the new car design which is now the supertourer,
but Mark petch and Co then took it and started their own series in opposition with that car design, even though it was funded by NZV8?
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 12:53 (Ref:2929418)   #334
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The shareholders of the existing NZV8 class believe the IP of the NZST car is theirs and have filed legal documents to get what they believe was taken from them.
On that basis, may I respectfully request posters to refrain from discussion of this point as obviously it will get sorted out by the legal process. Speculation, however well informed it may be (or may appear to be) is just that and should be treated as such. Remember, it's only true if the court decides it is!
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 13:52 (Ref:2929448)   #335
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Remember, it's only true if the court decides it is!
Even that is debatable at times Woolley
There has been enough instances to prove they don't alwways get it right.
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 21:17 (Ref:2929593)   #336
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I have read on the forum regarding various suggestions as to how events can be better promoted but in my neck of the woods thing like school visits, radio station interviews, displays in malls, street parades etc have all been part of the scene since the early 1980's.

What has to be remembers is that NZ has a population smaller than Sydney and seven permanent race circuits and that the media is like a horse in that you can lead one to water but you cannot make it drink
Hi Southern Man

I'm pleased to hear that some of these things have been happening in your neck of the woods, assuming that is down Southland way?

I think you get pretty good turnout down there to these events, probably quite a lot of it is due to that sort of publicity plus also due to being a smaller place it's easier to get word around, so that's good.

The challenge is Auckland, really, where there is a lot happening in a lot of places a lot of the time, but only limited media to cover it all, which is why the shopping malls and schools thing should have a good impact because there's not much hope of getting the TV news to talk about it (although TV3 are actually pretty good). It sort of needs to become viral, we need to get kids off their Playstations and down to the racing dragging their parents with them. Murph's presence in the ST's will help immensely too.

But hey, we got 110,000 to Pukekohe for the last V8 Supercars there, which was pretty much twice as many as that circuit could handle comfortably!

I will be visiting the Speedshow this weekend, I shall ask some questions of both camps regarding the upcoming legal action and their respective points of view. I won't be able to post it here though sadly.
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 22:17 (Ref:2929618)   #337
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I will be visiting the Speedshow this weekend, I shall ask some questions of both camps regarding the upcoming legal action and their respective points of view. I won't be able to post it here though sadly.
Well what I have always done is use it to frame my opinions and analysis of situations, not post stuff verbatim or quote people when they are not on the record. I'm sure there will be some insight there you don't have to post word for word.
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Old 22 Jul 2011, 04:39 (Ref:2929676)   #338
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Did anyone else hear the interview with Andrew McKenzie on Radio Sport in NZ a few minutes ago about the issues between the NZV8's and NZST? Sounds like the ST prototype has been or will be removed from the Speedshow. Things are moving fast.

Last edited by Tracer Fire; 22 Jul 2011 at 04:46.
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Old 22 Jul 2011, 04:53 (Ref:2929679)   #339
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Hi Goat Boy, Not quite as far south as Teretonga for a few years now but yes, they do all that stuff too.
Re Auckland, this year Rally NZ had a it's ceremonial start at Manakau City on a Friday night, at the start ramp area I knew all 8 people present except for a man and the two young boys with him. It was not a good look
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Old 22 Jul 2011, 05:06 (Ref:2929681)   #340
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Did anyone else hear the interview with Andrew McKenzie on Radio Sport in NZ a few minutes ago about the issues between the NZV8's and NZST? Sounds like the ST prototype has been or will be removed from the Speedshow. Things are moving fast.
I just tuned in and heard it at the top of the hour.

Not a lot of detail, but it looks like it's game on over intellectual property.
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Old 22 Jul 2011, 05:13 (Ref:2929683)   #341
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Did anyone else hear the interview with Andrew McKenzie on Radio Sport in NZ a few minutes ago about the issues between the NZV8's and NZST? Sounds like the ST prototype has been or will be removed from the Speedshow. Things are moving fast.
http://www.radiosport.co.nz/ThisWeek/61615.wma about 5.30 in.
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Old 22 Jul 2011, 09:10 (Ref:2929723)   #342
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Hi Goat Boy, Not quite as far south as Teretonga for a few years now but yes, they do all that stuff too.
Re Auckland, this year Rally NZ had a it's ceremonial start at Manakau City on a Friday night, at the start ramp area I knew all 8 people present except for a man and the two young boys with him. It was not a good look
There you go, I didn't even know it was on. This was not WRC Rally NZ was it? Because you normally hear about that and I didn't think it was here this year?

BTW, bloody disaster on the V8 front - only winners now will be the lawyers. Why did the VEEGA people wait this long to serve their injunction? Would it not have been better to act immediately the series was announced? Why not get the design back straight away rather than getting a whole new one done and then acting?

There will be a lot of fans who don't look upon this very well...
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Old 22 Jul 2011, 09:57 (Ref:2929736)   #343
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It will likely make a mockery of both camps, to be fair.

The concern for most people is how do those who have already paid for a V8 SuperTourer come out of this?

The car is out of Speedshow which will create a myriad of controversy aimed right at the target markets of both series.

Problematic....probably isn't the right word!
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Old 22 Jul 2011, 09:59 (Ref:2929737)   #344
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Well I was just at speedshow setting up and it was still there...
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Old 22 Jul 2011, 10:05 (Ref:2929740)   #345
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The concern for most people is how do those who have already paid for a V8 SuperTourer come out of this?
Do you really think anyone has actually paid for one? I would doubt that very much.
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Old 22 Jul 2011, 10:17 (Ref:2929743)   #346
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There you go, I didn't even know it was on. This was not WRC Rally NZ was it? Because you normally hear about that and I didn't think it was here this year?

BTW, bloody disaster on the V8 front - only winners now will be the lawyers. Why did the VEEGA people wait this long to serve their injunction? Would it not have been better to act immediately the series was announced? Why not get the design back straight away rather than getting a whole new one done and then acting?

There will be a lot of fans who don't look upon this very well...
Its not as simple as serving an injunction on ST as the board had a full audit done on the accounts. All of the minutes and communication within Veega needed to be compiled and sent to the lawyers for informed advice on the course of action to be taken. In the mean time the board needed to make a plan on a new car for the Veega group so they didn't get left behind with only the old cars. Andrew McKenzie was one of the first investors in the ST and he was 100% behind it, why do you think he has done what he has done if everything was represented as it had been sold to him?
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Old 22 Jul 2011, 14:12 (Ref:2929797)   #347
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Lets not forget the part when he said most of the field are weekend people and can't afford 200k, what makes you think they can afford to upgrade to the new nzv8.

He also moaned that all the big names were gone...... maybe because they dont want to race with weekend warriors?

He may want to remember who started the nzv8s cars in the first place.
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Old 22 Jul 2011, 16:48 (Ref:2929851)   #348
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Lets not forget the part when he said most of the field are weekend people and can't afford 200k, what makes you think they can afford to upgrade to the new nzv8.

He also moaned that all the big names were gone...... maybe because they dont want to race with weekend warriors?

He may want to remember who started the nzv8s cars in the first place.
Depends on what the price is on the new NZV8 and also how many years you could get out of it.

From what I know of all the guys that have thrown their hat in on V8ST, they are "weekend warriors" as well in terms of them having regular jobs or businesses they have to attend to and that probably the only one that might be considered a "full time" pro driver is Johnny Mac.
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Old 22 Jul 2011, 17:04 (Ref:2929860)   #349
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Its not as simple as serving an injunction on ST as the board had a full audit done on the accounts. All of the minutes and communication within Veega needed to be compiled and sent to the lawyers for informed advice on the course of action to be taken. In the mean time the board needed to make a plan on a new car for the Veega group so they didn't get left behind with only the old cars. Andrew McKenzie was one of the first investors in the ST and he was 100% behind it, why do you think he has done what he has done if everything was represented as it had been sold to him?
Just my opinion but if people like Andrew McKenzies money is wrapped up in what is now the V8ST car and concept and those investors were not paid off, so V8ST could do their own thing, then depending on what NZ law is, they probably have a case.

I don't think it will stand that you solicit investors to build a prototype of something and then once built, 1/3 of the investors take ownership of the prototype and cut out the other 2/3rds. If that is what went down.

Probably people balked at the cost of what is basically a next gen V8 Supercar.

I had said years ago, that if people wanted to go that route just use Fujitsu cars as there is plenty of supply and some of the Australian guys might want to run them over in NZ in the "off season". It would also be easier to transfer NZ drivers over to Australia if they have V8SC aspirations.
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Old 22 Jul 2011, 17:10 (Ref:2929864)   #350
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It will likely make a mockery of both camps, to be fair.

The concern for most people is how do those who have already paid for a V8 SuperTourer come out of this?

The car is out of Speedshow which will create a myriad of controversy aimed right at the target markets of both series.

Problematic....probably isn't the right word!
Same with the old CART/irl battle. Hardcore fans might hang on, but anytime you swirl negatively and hostility into what is a sporting/entertainment medium, your average person/sponsor departs for greener, happier pastures.

All these guys have a right to defend what they consider their investment and property, but also while some of them will win some personal battles they might all might lose the war and by that I mean fans, funding, tv and so on.
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