F1-1967 Today

[f1-67]

hi john - yes i absolutely agree we're all entitled to opinions - sometimes though it is very easy to knock something for the sake of it -

starting a reply with ' what a waste of time and effort ' seems to me to fit squarely into that category - im sure that well see plenty of activity here to justify all points of view and thats just what a forum should be -

there is no specific target market , so far a very wide range of interest has been received , from one off track day drives , particularly at european venues through to custom builds with specific engines , giving new life to wrecked ferraris seems to be a favourite , most interest has been for individual cars probably to be used in the 'ultimate toy' category

- now the car is working well further press coverage will hopefully develop more positive interest - if this thread is in the wrong place then please feel free to start it elsewhere , i've not really looked at the options -

[PTRACER]

There is definitely a market for fans out there. I remember seeing this reported on the Grand Prix Legends forum a few years ago...It's a 10 year old computer game based on the 1967 season and it still has a massive following.

The claim of there being "too many series" is true, but that only really applies to F1 feeder series - F1-67 doesn't come under that as it's something very unique.

If you make others, will they also look like the '67 Honda or are you planning on building lookalikes of the other 1967 Grand Prix cars?

If you make a series out of them, how affordable would it be?

[terence]

As a business venture,I wish you the best of luck.A very good friend did try one of these cars for size,6.6ft and very well built,it fitted him comfortably despite his doubts of actually get into the car.See-ing as most of the older Histo F1 drivers are heading that way,could that be were your market is? Brave venture,I hope it goe's well for you.Would I like to try one,yes, very much.Would I buy one? I dont think so but then again it look's like a lot of fun.My own point of view is that the car is not historic,but it is also not an attempt at recreating some long lost marque.

[f1-67]

its planned to offer three nose options ,
1. as demo ( 66-67 honda type )
2. gurney eagle style
3. low version ( lotus 49 style )

by combining these different nose styles and period colours you can pretty well recreate any 1967 car style - or just cover it in stickers and youve got an indycar look !

one of the main objectives with the car was to build in a high level of reliability , the engine is running at stock revlimit ( 6000 rpm ) , no tuning at all just a set of idas and a simple msd sparkbox - the gearboxes are rated at 400 plus bhp and we're only at 300ish at best ( at dyno next week so not exactly sure ) all uprights / brakes etc are very highly specced and from the top end of the gt40 replica market proven over many years -

if a series did evolve i would hope that ongoing costs would be limited by having engineered in a high level of reliability into the car , obviously this is not proven yet long term but having run the car fairly hard now twice and having had to do nothing more than deck the pads and wipe up some gearbox oil from a leaky breather pipe i am very pleased with the way things are progressing -

[Peter Mallett]

Interesting you should mention the GT40 replicas. Isn't/wasn't there a series for the GTD versions? I could see a meeting possibly under the auspices of the 750MC where these series could compete.

And let's not forget the DType replicas that also have a series.

As a suggestion, would this be good in the racer's forum?

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by PTRACER

The claim of there being "too many series" is true, but that only really applies to F1 feeder series - F1-67 doesn't come under that as it's something very unique.

I think that there is too much racing full stop. Last weekend there were 4 separate historic racing events in the UK alone.

Originally Posted by f1-67

starting a reply with ' what a waste of time and effort ' seems to me to fit squarely into that category - im sure that well see plenty of activity here to justify all points of view and thats just what a forum should be

Point taken.


Agree, Peter, 750MC caters for an enterprisingly mixed bag, so a possibility there.

It could go into Racers forum or maybe National Single Seaters. Equally happy for it to stay here if it engenders lively constructive debate. Since it is F1-67's 'bag' maybe he should chose.

[PTRACER]

Originally Posted by John Turner

I think that there is too much racing full stop. Last weekend there were 4 separate historic racing events in the UK alone.

With so much money to be made, it isn't surprising, but it will reach dilution point sometime in the not too distant future and the more popular series will flourish, the less popular will fall by the wayside, especially as people now have less money.

F1-67 has explained his car wasn't created with a commercial venture in mind, but because of his love for late-60s Grand Prix cars and I see that as being different to "I love these types of cars, let's create a series and make some money out of it". It just depends on what type of people will ultimately find it most appealing.

[john ruston]

If the car is to be bought as a new toy absolutely no problem and the best of luck and hope the venture goes well.

The problem with all these look alike,continuation ,fake cars or however people want to categorize them is when people mix them up with proper historic cars.
This dilutes the Historic Stock and muddies the water.Sorry about that but its my opinion of these copy's and I think however well intentioned the manufacture of them is it does not help the Historic Race movement as a whole.

I am well known as the Grumpy Old Man on here but put forward my considered views under my own moniker so at least people know who they are disagreeing with!

[f1-67]

totally agree with you john , historics are just that and belong to a very special time and place that should not be diluted with newer representations of originals , one of the reasons i chose the 1967 period was because there are hardly any real ones to be seen anymore , but there seems to be good support for pre 1966 and post 69 cars . The last time someone tried to gather the 67 clan as far as i can tell 4 cars turned up which doesnt really make for much of a race , with the f1-67 the ultimate goal would be to recreate a 1967 grid but only the market will decide if its going to have any chance at all to happen - if it doesnt at worst i will always have one hell of a toy to play with and there are plenty of other commercial possibilities , whether its sprinting / hillclimbing , high end trackday rentals or just ' experience ' rides - who knows ?

as an aside if any licence holders on the forum would like to try the car please get in touch as we are going to be putting miles on the car all over the uk and europe and the more feedback the better as far as im concerned -

[GORDON STREETER]

What happened to that series of one make lookalike old timers that was something to do with Tom Wheatcroft at Donnington ?

[gt917]

To F1-67,

As a builder and racer of two replica/recreation cars i want to applaud you for all you have done.

Most of the "historic" vehicles i have seen and handled are like "Triggers broom" and the divide line between original and replacement is well clouded.

I,m sure that there are thousands out there that would like to own original cars, but the fact is that there simply are not enough of them to go round, nor enough finances to own, let alone race them.

In years to come, many will be happy to own and compete in one of your cars because ,like all new builds, they become old and thus "historic" !!!!

Thank heavens for engineers and enthusiasm.

Bravo.

Graham Turner

[Jeremy Hall]

Originally Posted by gt917

To F1-67,

.


In years to come, many will be happy to own and compete in one of your cars because ,like all new builds, they become old and thus "historic" !!!!


Graham Turner

They may get old but will never ,ever ,ever become historic.

[john ruston]

Bingo,Thats the problem.
Assume Graham yours is the 917 look alike.

Its not a 917 so what is it and what is the intended market for these cars?

[terence]

I would have thought that it is just aimed at having some fun initially,then if there is enough interest,perhaps a series.Then there is the problem of which club would be willing to take it on.I dont see HSCC or Master's being willing to do this,possibly the BARC could be the answer.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

What happened to that series of one make lookalike old timers that was something to do with Tom Wheatcroft at Donnington ?

I'm not imagining this but it was tried a few years back. "Named" drivers were stuck in the cars, but it never took off.

[Peter Mallett]

Yes, the cars were based on fifties designs (something like a 250f?) weren't they?

[GORDON STREETER]

Yes that's right Pete. Just found out a bit more . Based on the Maserati 250F, 25 of them made with Warrior 16v engines. I think there may be one in the Donnington collection. But it seems that most were broken up !

[terence]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I'm not imagining this but it was tried a few years back. "Named" drivers were stuck in the cars, but it never took off.

There was a recent thread on here asking what happened to those cars Gordon,apparently some have now got T70 bodywork on.
I remember Gerry once saying that he had never driven anything like it before,and that that was the last time ever.
Willie Green ,I think,had something to do with them as well,the series was supposed to have gone on all season long but I seem to remember it fell over after about three races. Thats not to say that these new cars will suffer in the same way,there could be quite a few young LH wanabee's who would like something with a bit more grant than FF. Actually thinking about it,IF there were an incentive at the end of the season,I'm sure that would generate some interest.

[john ruston]

Assume Graham is the only man who can answer the original question.
This thing about series for any of these cars is far feteched as many have tried and failed.
If you had the funds which of the pretend cars would you buy Terry?
They are not Historic so why bring HSCC,Masters and these people into the discussion.These people and not going to involve themselves
A new organisation and series is required'Pretend Old Crocks'or some such thing
We have cars that would fit ,racing today with some organisations

[gt917]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Bingo,Thats the problem.
Assume Graham yours is the 917 look alike.

Its not a 917 so what is it and what is the intended market for these cars?

Mr Ruston,
There is no intended market for these cars except for those who want to replicate as near as is possible what the original cars looked and handled like on a vastly smaller budget. There are stacks of parts out there on the open market to build these vehicles, thats how the originals keep on running and being increased in numbers !!

Once again you have spouted off in a damming nature on me now, let alone poor F1-67. What, pray, do you race?

Mr Hall,
Of course they will become historic because like every Lotus, Surtees, Mallock, Chevron, Brm, etc, etc, they all started of as an idea and a pile of parts and finally a race history, just as an F1-67 will have or my own cars already have.

Once again every best wish to F1-67 and all engineers who do it and don,t just talk or damn.

GT.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by john ruston

This thing about series for any of these cars is far feteched as many have tried and failed.

In fairness if enough people got together it could be a series, look at the GTD40s a few years back, and of course there's the DType replica's too.

Originally Posted by john ruston

They are not Historic so why bring HSCC, Masters and these people into the discussion. These people and not going to involve themselves

This is why I thought (and this is just speculation) 750MC would be a place for the cars.

Personally it looks like a real hoot to play with.

[john ruston]

I have the odd race car and have pointed out my views earlier.
Assume you had the car at Chomley last year.I also had four of my cars.Good weekend.
These threads are all about spouting off and we might disagree but I can live with that as I repeat I have no difficulties with them being taken as new cars but not dilute the present Historic Racing Scene.There are enough problems with the cars that already race.

[gt917]

John Ruston,

" You assume i,m the only one who can answer the first question".

What was the first question?? The thread started as showing off the new F1-67.

I merely applaud its creator and his engineering and enthusiasm skills. I have not mentioned eligibility, everyone else has done that. Bit sad that.

GT.

[terence]

Originally Posted by john ruston

They are not Historic so why bring HSCC,Masters and these people into the discussion.These people and not going to involve themselves

The very reason I suggested that THEY WOULD NOT GET INVOLVED but perhaps the BARC would take them on

In answer to your question John,I'll let you work out which one I'd buy.

[john ruston]

Graham

No one is questioning the work,capital employed,time ,engineering that goes into producing these cars and the best of luck with those who involve themselves in the ventures.
The question I posed was why do it,as a business venture,as a full scale model project or it just seemed a good if expensive wheeze
Its a question and anyone who involves themselves in building these types of car can answer and it is interesting to know the views as it could easily be that my take is wrong and needs to change.Would they want a race series based on their car?
Its a free world and people have been making copies of Cobras for donkeys and I understand one of these won the Tour Auto last year.